Just how fast can I prepare my spells?

[Mergy]

Most people know about the wizard arcane discovery Fast Study:

Fast Study:

Normally, a wizard spends 1 hour preparing all of his spells for the day, or proportionately less if he only prepares some spells, with a minimum of 15 minutes of preparation. Thanks to mental discipline and clever mnemonics, you can prepare all of your spells in only 15 minutes, and your minimum preparation time is only 1 minute. You must be at least a 5th-level wizard to select this discovery.

That's well and good, but then I saw the Pathfinder Society Primer had a new feat:

Quick Preparation:

Early on in your adventuring career, you learned (perhaps the hard way) how to prepare your spells even when put under extreme time constraints.
Prerequisites: Ability to prepare spells.
Benefit: When preparing spells, you halve the time necessary to do so.
Normal: Preparing all of your spells takes 1 hour.

Question: Do these two abilities interact? Is a wizard with both able to prepare all spells in 7.5 minutes, and a single spell in a mere 30 seconds (5 rounds)?

FAQ if you can! :)

[Jonathan Dempe]

It sounds like they are incredibly similar and would most likely not stack as you would be replicating the same effect its a grey area intentional or not run it past your GM and have them rule but on face value it doesn't seem likely to stack

[Mergy]

I don't think they are replicating the same effect necessarily. One of them reduces the time it takes to prepare spells to 15 minutes, or 1 minute for a single spell. The other merely halves preparation time.

The question is really one of order of operations. If Fast Study happens first, then Quick Preparation should reduce it to half a minute. If Quick Preparation happens first, then it does nothing.

[Stockvillain]

My two cents -
Since Fast Study requires being a 5th level wizard, and Quick Preparation only requires the ability to prepare spells. Therefore, I'd rule that Fast Study kicks in first (sets your prep time to 15/1), then the Quick Prep applies (reduces to 7.5 min/30 sec).

[Remy Balster]

Stockvillain wrote:

My two cents -

Since Fast Study requires being a 5th level wizard, and Quick Preparation only requires the ability to prepare spells. Therefore, I'd rule that Fast Study kicks in first (sets your prep time to 15/1), then the Quick Prep applies (reduces to 7.5 min/30 sec).

This, pretty much.

They are compatible, from a RAW standpoint. One changes the default time to new value, the other applies a multiplier factor.

T=X

T is Time to prepare. X is the indiciated value of your ability. For Wizards X is 1 hour. T= 1hour

With Fast study, X is now set to 15 minutes. T= 15minutes

Add Quick Preparation, and you apply a multiplier to X. T=1/2X Or T=1/2(15minutes)

[Remy Balster]

That would be an amazing thing to utilize in a battle strategy if you where DMing for a group with a Wizard who had both of these.

Make some climactic fight, where a very specific spell could win the encounter, but otherwise it could go south fast. He knows it, but doesn't have it prepared... The Wizard needs 5 rounds to prepare the spell... the group has to keep him safe in combat while he tries to focus.

It would be epic.

[Hogeyhead]

That is a great idea Remy, oh how I'd like that to happen.

Also I agree they should stack

[Xaratherus]

By RAW, I see no reason they would not stack.

But to me, it feels like it's darn close to infringing on the spontaneous caster's territory.

[Avatar-1]

5 rounds to prepare is still really significant. Even if the wizard is to leave the party to fight and go in another room to prepare, that doesn't border on the sorcerer's ability to send off 5 fireballs in the meantime, without having to take the party from 4 people to 3.

There's nothing here suggesting they don't stack (regardless of order taken).

[Quantum Steve]

Remy Balster wrote:

That would be an amazing thing to utilize in a battle strategy if you where DMing for a group with a Wizard who had both of these.

Make some climactic fight, where a very specific spell could win the encounter, but otherwise it could go south fast. He knows it, but doesn't have it prepared... The Wizard needs 5 rounds to prepare the spell... the group has to keep him safe in combat while he tries to focus.

It would be epic.

Epic, perhaps, but sadly, not allowed.

PRD wrote:

Preparation Environment: To prepare any spell, a wizard must have enough peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration. The wizard's surroundings need not be luxurious, but they must be free from distractions. Exposure to inclement weather prevents the necessary concentration, as does any injury or failed saving throw the character might experience while studying. Wizards also must have access to their spellbooks to study from and sufficient light to read them. There is one major exception: a wizard can prepare a read magic spell even without a spellbook.

Combat is neither peacefull, quiet, nor comforable, and is certainly distracting (at least according ot the take 10 rules). However, if the Wizard was in a nearby room...

[Diego Rossi]

The two abilities seem to stack, but they are different. The arcane discovery work only for a wizard and only for his wizard spell slots, the feat work for every spellcaster that memorize spells.

[wraithstrike]

I think the RAI is to halve the time for the initial prepping, but I will FAQ it.

[HaraldKlak]

Is arcane discoveries, and Fast Study specifically, availiable in PFS?

[RainyDayNinja]

Quantum Steve wrote:

Combat is neither peacefull, quiet, nor comforable, and is certainly distracting (at least according ot the take 10 rules). However, if the Wizard was in a nearby room...

Or you could just drop the golem in a pit, then sit down and let it wait down there while you prepare that one spell it's not immune to. Or cast maze on yourself to get some peace and quiet for a few rounds.

[Xaratherus]

Avatar-1 wrote:

5 rounds to prepare is still really significant. Even if the wizard is to leave the party to fight and go in another room to prepare, that doesn't border on the sorcerer's ability to send off 5 fireballs in the meantime, without having to take the party from 4 people to 3.

There's nothing here suggesting they don't stack (regardless of order taken).

I was thinking more outside of combat:

Make sure your scout knows his creatures, have him scout ahead, find the next room of enemies, identify them, come back and tell the Wizard their resistances\immunities\weaknesses - no rule says you have to wait the actual 30 seconds it takes to prepare each spell, so a second later the wizard's prepared all of the perfect spells for the encounter, and the group moves forward.

Previously, that was where the Sorcerer got a chance to shine. I suppose the Wizard could have done it as well (leave all spells unprepared and just wait a half-hour) but you're far less likely to be discovered in 30 seconds than a half-hour.

[Blindmage]

This is a really cool combination that perfectly fits the concept of magic in a more ritualized fashion, yet still fast enough for standard play.

Great find! Thanks! I see a new character on the horizon for me :)

[Lifat]

I still see no reason why they wouldn't stack by RAW and honestly I don't really see it as broken. 5 rounds is still 5 rounds. And that is per spell. Even if you don't have the same amount of risk getting caught then it still burns down buff spell durations and it requires peace and quiet, so it can't be done in the midst of combat.
I see no problems.

[keerawa]

Lifat wrote:

5 rounds is still 5 rounds. And that is per spell.

I realize this post is some months old, but I wanted to point out that the 'minimum preparation time' of 1 minute with Fast Study is for up to 25% of your spell slots, if you've left that many open, not a single spell.

[Davick]

Mergy wrote:

Most people know about the wizard arcane discovery Fast Study:

** spoiler omitted **

That's well and good, but then I saw the Pathfinder Society Primer had a new feat:

** spoiler omitted **

Question: Do these two abilities interact? Is a wizard with both able to prepare all spells in 7.5 minutes, and a single spell in a mere 30 seconds (5 rounds)?

FAQ if you can! :)

I'm not here to answer this question, I've just gotta mention that I'm STOKED I can take this feat with my arcanist.

EDIT: Ok, to address the question: I'd say they stack usually, but the hard minimum (1 minute) set by fast study would still be in effect, would it not?

[Blindmage]

Has there been any further rulings on this?