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classes that can fly, get Fly as a class skill from 1st level.
sorcerer ( fly spell at 6th, class skill at 1st level, can put ranks in once she gets a means of flying), wizard ( fly spell at 5th, class skill at 1st level, etc. )druid ( wild shape bird at 4th level, possible fly spell via domain at 5th level, fly as a class skill from 1st level. )
witch, magus, alchemist, summoner
Oracle of Heavens ( fly at 10th level with the right revelation, or overland flight from mystery spell at 10th)
Oracle of Nature ( though i don't see any revelation or mystery spell that grants flight )
Oracle of Wind ( Wings of Air revelation available at 7th )
But the Oracle of Fire doesn't get Fly as a class skill.
Please correct this oversight
- add flight to the class skills for the Flame mystery
- add flight as a class skill when selecting Wings of Fire , or
- clarify the Fly skill from the core book as to how long you have to be able to fly each day, in order to automatically treat Fly as a class skill.
Creatures with a fly speed treat the Fly skill as a class skill. A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8. Creatures without a listed maneuverability rating are assumed to have average maneuverability.
Clerics can also get Fly via Domain (Air, Travel), no Fly Class Skill (except for Feather Sub-Domain).
I don't see any rule that having a means to fly via class ability means you must get the class skill.
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well the fly skill says if you have a fly speed, you treat fly as a class skill.
so domains/revelations that give you a flight speed should add fly to your list of class skills.
otherwise why give it to wizards and other classes that have the same reliable means of flying, but not give it to certain domains/mysteries under their bonus class skills? its incomplete.
and then why give it to nature oracles. they're landlocked.
At least classes with access to the Fly spell get some mitigation: their bonus due to caster level on fly checks. Classes that just get the flight ability instead of the spell, don't get a caster level bonus. just their maneuverability bonus, which is often average.
The majority of characters have eyes and ears, but not every class gets perception.
It seems to me that what you are asking for would basically mean that the fly skill would never not be a class skill for anyone. I don't think it needs to be FAQ'd.
indeed, and that would also mean there is no 'middle ground' between not having any means to fly and having means to fly and also having fly as class skill. having some means to fly is itself a great benefit, but not every class who has some means to fly necessarily is equally good at flying as other classes who have some means to fly... the presence/lack of fly as class skill is a differentiator there.
this seems like a valid FAQ topic though:
clarify the Fly skill from the core book as to how long you have to be able to fly each day, in order to automatically treat Fly as a class skill.Creatures with a fly speed treat the Fly skill as a class skill. A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8. Creatures without a listed maneuverability rating are assumed to have average maneuverability.
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Fly already requires a reliable means of flying to put ranks in.
I'm not saying it belongs on the Oracle base skill list, or the Cleric base skill list.
but lots of Domains give bonus class skills, and every Revelation gives a few.
It just seems like the Flame mystery got climb for no reason, while the Nature mystery got Fly even though they don't have a way to fly.
Every other class that can cast a Fly spell, gets Fly on their class list already.
Alchemist, Druid, Magus, Sorcerer, Summoner, Witch, Wizard.
there's plenty of classes that Don't get Fly, for good reason: no reliable way to fly everyday.
Barbarian, Bard, Cavalier, Cleric, Fighter, Inquisitor, Monk, Oracle, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue,
The majority of characters have eyes and ears, but not every class gets perception.
Having eyes and ears isn't a requirement to putting ranks into the Perception skill.
Having a way to fly is.Most characters can't begin putting ranks into Fly until 4th or 5th level.
So even if it gets put on the class list for Clerics of Air/Travel, and Oracles of Flame, they can't put ranks in it, until they can actually fly. like all the other classes with fly. But as a class that has a way to fly every day, why shouldn't they have it as a class skill?
What makes the Wizard's Fly spell so much better than the Cleric's?
Apparently if you're Arcane, you automatically get Fly as a Class skill. But if you're Divine? no such love.
Why give ANY class fly as a class skill, if you're not going to do it , from a design standpoint, for a uniform reason; such as "casters in this class are likely to gain fly at some point, and be able to fly every day. they'll have a fly speed, so we should give them fly as a class skill so it matches the skills section. plus why wouldn't we. "
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indeed, and that would also mean there is no 'middle ground' between not having any means to fly and having means to fly and also having fly as class skill. having some means to fly is itself a great benefit, but not every class who has some means to fly necessarily is equally good at flying as other classes who have some means to fly... the presence/lack of fly as class skill is a differentiator there.
on a calmer note, it seems separating the good fliers from the bad fliers already happens:
you put ranks in a class skill or you don't.there's also the matter of :
druids don't gain a CL bonus on fly
flame oracles don't gain a CL bonus on fly
sorcerers flying via bloodline wings don't get a CL bonus on fly
characters flying via a magical item ( cloak of the eagle ) don't usually gain a CL bonus on fly.
( some items do, celestial armor acts as the Fly spell 1/day )
you're a "good" flyer if you're casting the actual spell Fly. You start out with a Good maneuverability instead of Average, and gain a bonus equal to 1/2 your CL.
so a base potion of fly automatically grants you +6 to fly , before adding in your dexterity or armor check penalties. A 10th level wizard or witch casting fly or using the fly hex gains +9 bonus base, and likely has no armor check penalty making them clumsy in the air.
edit: checked the Air domain, it doesn't grant Fly, but Air Walk. Travel Domain does gain Fly, a way of giving them a fly speed every day. Wind Walk gives most clerics a way to fly at 11th level, with poor maneuverability but a lot of speed. But I can still see an argument to give Travel domain a bonus class skill of Fly, the same way the Feather domain grants fly as a class skill.
I was considering Elemental Body:Air Elemental form a means of flight via Air Domain.
As you point out, Wind Walk is standard Cleric/Oracle spell that grants a Fly speed as well.
As to why Flame Oracle gets Climb as Class Skill, look at Fire Elementals: they all have good Climb skills, likely because of the ability of fire to 'climb' surfaces, etc. Nature Oracle has Animal Shapes which can grant flying forms as well as the standard Air Walk spell, it doesn't seem a stretch that being in tune with nature would extend to Fly as Class Skill.
I can understand your arguments why these SHOULD get these, but I just don't see it as a big deal, the game functionally works, it's only a +3 bonus in the end, so I just don't really care about whether they change this or not.
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Nature Oracle: Animal Shapes?
is that a spell? i don't see it under their revelations. ahh i see it, 16th level.
yeah. so you see there's a disparity ? one Mystery gets Fly for having a 16th level ability to fly.
I'd be happy if the Wings of Flame revelation itself said: gain fly as a class skill when you take this revelation.
its not a huge argument that the game is fundamentally broken b/c fly is missing from one or two places. its just simple fixes, that are easy to make. and make the game feel like is well designed as a whole.