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I am creating a PC from Molthune, and I have a few questions:
1) What real world country best mirrors Molthune?
2) What real world accent best replicates a Molthuni accent?
3) What relations do the Pathfinder Society have with Molthune?
4) What real world military best mirrors the Molthune Imperial Army?
5) How would a non-human citizen, and soldier, such as a Hobgoblin, be viewed and treated by fellow citizens, and soldiers?
Thank you all for your help.
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1) Model Country: Germany. It's based heavily on German "looks" with a Bismarkian flare.
2) Accent: I dunno. "Germany" again? If Cheliax is likened to France or England, Germany fits fairly well with that. It looks like it sounds harsh, which German does. That fits with my concept of a militaristic language. (I'm not insulting German or Germany or their history! It's just how I hear it!)
3) Society: probably the same as most nations: they're kind of like foreign celebrities, so, as long as they don't cause problems for the government, it's designs, or the local people, they're probably fine (though the Government is likely to want to know if they find something useful to the military).
4) I mean, Check the google image search. Especially This Image. Or this one. Looks exactly like the Molthune-guy to me. Check out the German Confederation and Empire. Here's the wikipedia entry on the subject.
5) Stepping away from real-world stuff, given that Molthune is a meritocracy, while he'd likely be met with prejudice (due to being a goblin of some sort), once he proved himself he'd likely be highly praised and sought after. If he was charismatic and skillful, he could even sell himself well as a powerful asset to the military. It would be likely, if he was very successful and clever, that he might be able to gain whole divisions of Hobgoblins into the Imperial War Machine.
Hope that helps!
Prussian Patriotism During the Napoleonic Wars
Home Front during World War I? (I don't actually know why this is here. Google suggested this one.) :/
Eh, the Unification of Germany, why not.
The Inner Sea, and a map of the region shows that Molthune is about the same latitude as Nidal, Druma, Kyonin, and Northern Taldor. Given the Mediterranean feel of the Inner Sea region, I'd suggest that it's probably analogous to the Austria, Hungary, and Romanian areas, and maybe Central-Northern France. But that's just a guess. That does make the fur coat kind of awkward, but Varisia seems fairly warm in spite of it being much "higher" up on Golarion's latitude, so... I dunno.
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This is very good information. It will be quite helpful.
A few more questions:
A) Is there something important I should know about Molthune patriotism?
B) How would a Molthuni view the nation Taldor, or Irrisen?
C) What is the climate in Molthune like?
A) I'd say less patriotism and more nationalism. Mothune's desire is to conquer, but they're currently not causing too much trouble because they're constantly trying and failing to hold Nirmathas. They REALLY love Molthune and the General.
B) Taldor would basically be viewed as most others view it, a decaying, decadent empire that pretends to still be relevant. Taldans are painted fops who can barely tell the pommel of a sword from the pointy end. Ultimately, too far away to be any real concern. Irrisen's scary, as it is to most people, but again, it's too far away from Molthune itself to be of any major concern. Sort of a "not my problem" attitude. Let the savages up north deal with it.
C) It's a temperate zone, with forests and mountains and grasslands. It's more cleared for farming than Nirmathas, which is mostly one big forest.
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Ah, indeed nationalism seems more fitting.
I intend to create this PC as a soldier, or former soldier, of the Imperial Army.
How would I know what the named ranks were?
There are obvious ones, such as General, but others, escape me.
The Wizard's Mask is a Pathfinder Tales novel set mostly in Molthune (but also spending some time in Nirmathas, which is full of Molthuni soldiers at the time).
It should prove helpful.
I don't know if we've gotten any clues on that (though personally I'm inclined to believe Molthune views all its neighbours as eventual conquests). But if we look at how Andoran would view Molthune, the fact that Molthune allows slavery within its borders would suggest that the relationship would be quite fraught if Andoran didn't have bigger and uglier opponents to deal with in Cheliax and Katapesh.
Andoran is seen by other Avistani powers, in a way very analogous to the way the United States was seen by the European powers for the first 50-75 years after its successful separation from Great Britain. On the one hand, they're a good trading partner with lots of resources and militarily capable of defending themselves. On the other hand, they have this strange, worrisome, potentially contagious idea called "democracy" that tends to stir up the peasants against their rightful masters, and cause hatred and hostility between the social classes -- just look at what happened in [France/Galt] as a result of those ideas! Why can't they just go back to having a hereditary ruler and nobility system like sensible nations?
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Plus, as it's been stated, Molthune is expansionistic to the core. It's just that they're so obsessed with taking and holding Nirmathats that they ignore other nations, Andoran included. They probably view them with a kind of "You're next!" mentality, especially since Andoran holds similar ideals to those of Nirmathas like personal liberty and stuff.
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I don't know if it's really possible to speak of a singular 'core' in such strong terms, Molthune feels in a state of political transition.
Molthune has a traditional aristocracy, but which has been increasingly sidelined by the military governate.
As far as Nirmathas goes, it *IS* a rebel province that separated during a time of weakness and turmoil,
so 'legally' speaking, subjugating Nirmathas is not 'expansionism' but resolving matters of their rightful holding.
The rising military governate certainly seems the strongest heir to the Taldan imperial army,
but it's lacking the real political as well as material base to be a really aggressive expansionist.
That said, assuming Nirmathas is re-conquered or otherwise removed from the focus of conflict,
I would say that Razmiran would be high on the list of countries they might intervene in/conquer, due to Razmir's ways,
and that would position them to dominate the River Kingdoms in some way which may be appealing to the generals.
As far as a political conflict with Andoren, I honestly see slavery as on the wane in new Molthune:
The growing military is creating whole new classes of citizenry, and the governate is promoting the use of magical animated harvesting tools in the large agricultural holdings. Slavery is not absent, but it is not a major focus of the country, so anti-slavery abolitionists in Andoren have bigger fish to focus on.
Democracy-wise, I also don't see an inherent conflict ready to boil over:
The military governate is side-lining the old, corrupt and repressive aristocracy after all, which in objective terms is/was pretty much the direct enemy of 'Democracy'. That aristocracy is not overthrown and still exists, but the military tendency of government could be seen as modernizing and overthrowing the old regime, even if they have not donse so completely (yet). The military is also expanding the classes of citizenry, and is seemingly half-competent at organizing industrial production and 'abundance' so again I think most Andoren opinion has many other 'bad guys' to demonize...
Tacticslion's links on Prussian nationalism seem cogent here: the 'artisan' class overwhelmingly backed the 'new (militarist) nationalism', and this class is likely of central importance to Andoren democracy as well, so despite the militaristic deviation of Molthune there is likely to be a good amount of sympathy, or at least limitation of antipathy (there also isn't any indication that Molthune is actively suppressing any democracy movement, which may simply have been side-lined in a conflict between the old aristocracy and the new modernizing/egalitarian but authoritarian military regime). In the example of Prussia, the political aspirations of the modernizing 'normal folk' largely backed the regime, and I believe innoations like national health care began here, again appealing to 'popular' sentiment. Like Prussia, immigrants leaving religious persecution might be accepted, alongside non-humans in the military. Molthune (and Nirmathas), Andoren, and Galt can all be seen as a group of 'modernizing elements' of the Taldane cultural sphere which may well have mutual affinity given they were/are overcoming similar opponents, and they all kind of have their own problems to begin with, and are spread out in different regional contexts (e.g. Molthune is closer to barbarian hordes, etc) so not exactly matching one ideal ('liberal democracy' is hardly an established successful ideal in Golarion) is probably not the biggest topic of concern for most Andorans. Although the tone of Molthune may not sound so great by modern sentiment, it wouldn't seem particularly bad compared to most countries in the Greater Inner Sea region, and may well seem more appealing by many measures. Prussia in fact developed many of the features which are now hall-marks of "democracy" such as not interfering in the judiciary, and a lack of ideal democracy is often over-looked when convenient, e.g. Singapore.
In any case, I don't see the generals seeking out any conflict with any of the Inner Sea powers, Molthune seems likely to focus on the Lake Encarthan region. Besides Nirmathas and possibly Razmiran, I would hazard that a reckoning with Druma, not necessarily with the aim of conquering it per se but simply 'recognition of the supremacy of Molthune' (failure of which may lead to war, of course) might occur especially if Druma's commercial role is not following the interests of Molthune. Isger could play a role in such a conflict, although raising Cheliax's attention would not be wise policy. Eventually the River Kingdoms seems plausible to come to it's interest, possibly up to Brevoy or indeed get involved in Galt.
As far as cultural connotation, I would say Molthune is like a rump part of the Roman Empire after it split up (i.e. Western Rome and Eastern Byzantine, a 3rd northern part in this case being Molthune) perhaps in the area of Roman Germania/Romania with an ascendant military dictatorship, thus flavors of Prussia mixed with the Roman vibe. I wouldn't get too concerned over characters portrayed wearing furs, they don't have to be wearing them all day in the open sun all year long, they could wear them when it's cooler at night or in autumn/winter.
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Andoran is seen by other Avistani powers, in a way very analogous to the way the United States was seen by the European powers for the first 50-75 years after its successful separation from Great Britain. On the one hand, they're a good trading partner with lots of resources and militarily capable of defending themselves. On the other hand, they have this strange, worrisome, potentially contagious idea called "democracy" that tends to stir up the peasants against their rightful masters, and cause hatred and hostility between the social classes -- just look at what happened in [France/Galt] as a result of those ideas! Why can't they just go back to having a hereditary ruler and nobility system like sensible nations?
What an odd interpretation of history.
You chaps were very slow to catch on and have always struggled to keep up.
It is pretty self-important too, to ignore the actual intellectual and social origins of the French Revolution.
*Read thread title* I'm so sorry.
*Read thread title* I'm so sorry.For what?
For your handicap.
Which handicap would that be?For your handicap.*Read thread title* I'm so sorry.For what?
well, being Molthuni of course.
This exchange reminds me of something.
No, no, don't help. I've almost got it.
Dang it! I know it's around here somewhere! Lousy Internet. Where did I put my stuff?!
Perhaps you could explain, in detail, how being Molthuni, is a handicap?
Maybe this statement is said in humor, but I must admit, it is lost to me.
It's a joke. It's a classic one, to. I just can't find it! Arg! My Youtube and Googlefu powers are failing me!
It may be an old movie joke, or possibly even an old radio one. Possibly maybe even an old print-joke, though I think the print variant only came about with the advent of the internet (certainly the first place I've ever seen it used).
I'm nearly certain that at least one line in a movie I'm thinking goes something like:
Guy A [really excited]: "Guess what!"
Guy B [really interested]: "What? What?"
Guy A [really excited]: "I'm getting married!"
Guy B [after a pause]: "I'm so sorry."
<the bit goes on from there, usually with a pause for audience laughter>
The same dramatic pause, followed by, "I'm so sorry." for something that people are not typically looked down upon for is the joke.
It's used in a variety of situations (the marriage one being just the one I can think of now), similar to how it's used here. It is, at worst, the most mild of insults by way of classical humor history, to my reckoning.
I can't believe I can't find it, though! Agh!
Iiiiiiinterneeeeeeeeeeeeet!! *shakes fist*
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Taticslion has the way of it. Also throw in a dash of New Spock although it was supposed to end after the "I'm so sorry" but I thought you were running with it so I continued with the New Spock Dash.
I'm being driven insane that I'm not able to find it. I can't believe it. I have tons - TONS! - of images of these two guys doing a bit where that line is used, and I can't find a single one.
I mean, your response was even a classic part of the bit, too, bbt!
Searching...
Abbot and Costello - I get confessions of a vocal coach and the Who's on First
Bob Hope and Bing Crosby - I get notes on how Bob misses Bing, but has learned to live and move on, and the opportunity to buy a movie (that does not have that line in it) online.
Searching for New Spock Dash just generates... er... "interesting" results. With Kirk and Klingons. I... I... okay. I'm done.
... and so on. WHY DOES THE INTERNET NOT HEEeeeeeeeeeeeelllllp.
:`(
If it makes you feel better that Dash of New Spock or New Spock Dash are terms I made up last night. Although I was inspired to call him New Spock by New Coke.
Apparently the Internet does not like you right now. When was the last time you bought it flowers?
On a completely different note: What is a good synonym for riff or riffing? As in to riff a movie.
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Just let me chime in briefly, since I am both playing in and GMing the Pathfinder Module Fangwood Keep, which is set on the countries' border.
I am also doing this for Society Play.
I have found that the Pathfinder Wiki is amazingly helpful, if unofficial. They are good about referencing the appropriate source materials.
The section on Molthune is here .
Here is how they view Pathfinders in Molthune:
"In 4706 AR, Governor Teldas declared the Pathfinder Society an enemy of the state in Molthune after the Society opened a lodge in the Nirmathi capital. However, many Pathfinders still sneak into Molthune to explore the country's ruins and other mysterious locales."
This is decidedly different than how many other nations view the Society.
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Molthune is sort of a "late empire" place, basically a smallish power trying to punch above its weight to make up for its relatively late start on accumulating geopolitical strength. Post-unification Imperial Germany is definitely a good example, but so is Imperial Japan from 1868 until WWII. Here are some overviews:
Meiji Period
Taisho Period
Basically, Japan looked around and saw that all the big boys already had huge empires, and figured that if they didn't want to get subjugated, they'd need an empire of their own. So they militarized and industrialized very rapidly, made some nice headway by beating Russia in a war and annexing Korea, fought on the winning side during World War I, and then pretty much threw it all away by overreaching in China and then picking the wrong allies in World War II.
Possible applications to Molthune:
- Molthune might be happy to make alliances with countries like Andoren or Druma, figuring that those are geopolitical opponents for the far future, not now. Much like Japan was friendly toward the U.S. from 1900 up through the '20's, even though they figured they'd need to kick us out of the Pacific eventually.
- Culturally, Molthune could be very open to experimental political ideas, including Andoren-style democracy, if they think it might be helpful for their internal strength. Japan had a semi-democratic period through the '20's. But they'd test these ideas out in a very controlled manner, with the generals still having the final say in all important decisions.
- Citizens of Molthune would likely be very proud and optimistic about their country's future, though likely paranoid about their neighboring countries. They would have a high degree of social cohesion, and could be quite generous to their own countrymen. Just not "enemy" outsiders.
- The Nirmathas War is kind of like Japan's war in China -- a long-term disaster that they just can't figure out how to stop fighting. They have to win to preserve their prestige, but they can't actually win, and might not even be able to define what "winning" would be.