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Aeternum Sponsored Charted Company recruitment
With the recent information from Ryan Dancey some people are feeling a little nervous about what their future in PfO may hold.
We at the nation of Aeternum feel that it is therefore the right time to bring our Sponsored Chartered Company (referred to as SCC hereafter) Recruitment program to your attention.
So to answer some of the burning questions up front
1) Will our people have to join Pax
No the members of a sponsored chartered company are not expected to go through the Pax recruiting channel, nor do they become Pax members. They are however expected to become settlement members.
2) Will Pax control our organisation.
The answer to this is slightly more complex. The simple answer is no Pax will not control your organisation. You will remain your own company with your own officers and your own culture. You will however be expected to follow the general thrust of the nations policies. For example if we are allied with another settlement, we expect you to regard yourselves as allied with them as well. Common sense really we are an alliance and we pull together.
3) How are national policies made?
The nation has two bodies that form the decision making process. The High and Low consuls. The high Consul is a small body that makes policy and votes upon it. This will consist of the High Thane, settlement leaders, and a couple of advisors. The other is the low consul which is an advisory body and consists of all chartered company leaders whether Paxian or sponsored company.
4)How will we be treated within the Nation
The nation of Aeternum regards all of its members whether of Pax origin or Sponsored company origin of equal standing. We stand as one and we live as one.
5)How will joining the nation help us?
Strong nations will be necessary to weather the stormy sea's of early enrollment. We believe we are capable of building such a nation. As such you will be under that umbrella when the storm comes. We will do all in our power to help your SCC grow and thrive. Should you become big enough to make a settlement in your own right we will assist in every way to make this happen at which point your settlement leader will take a place on the high consul.
6) What will we have to do for Pax
We would answer this simply. You will not have to do anything for Pax. You will however have duties to the Nation of Aeternum. The Nation is not Pax the nation is all of us both Pax and all of the sponsored companies that it consists of.
This is probably only a small percentage of the questions you have. We are currently preparing a longer faq. We already have the very much more detailed Aeternum agreement but it is felt that can be a bit too dry for those just wanting more information.
Should what we have said interest you feel free to PM me on the Paizo boards and we can arrange further discussions either in a teamspeak style setting or via pm's.
Also if you do not wish to get in touch quite yet we currently in the interests of openess keep our boards and wiki readable by all for the most part unlike most groups. We believe we have nothing to hide so if you wish to find out more of our nature before talking feel free to poke around as Pax Gaming
Hargun Thunderborn (Aka ZenPagan , aka Pagan)
Ambassador to the Nation of Aeternum
Goblin Squad Member
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The Seventh Veil announced a similar initiative back in February as part of our 1 Year Anniversary. There were a few companies who expressed some interest, but there wasn't any sense of urgency. Perhaps you're right and the mood has turned.
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We too have been running the program for a while. Due to the uncertainty about the future expressed by a couple of recent posters such as Gaskon and LordOfElderDays we decided to make a more public announcement of our SCC program.
I would certainly encourage TEO and The Seventh Veil and indeed any other guilds still thinking of settlement ownership to do the same. The community being able to compare alternatives and have a range of choices can only be a good thing for them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Noted.
Pax seems like a good bet, and I'll discuss this with MA, though I don't see an immediate decision right away (for them) but it's good development to start gauging what the valid options will be for EE, of which:
1) Become sponsored CC of an organization that has the capability to claim and run a settlement in EE. (eg Pax)
2) Join other similar CCs to then stake a claim in a joint-venture.
3) Wait/Hire out with a view to claiming future territory.
Other CC's might see Pax immediately as a good option: I'd suggest if you have not already, sending this message out in other forms directly to those groups that can be contacted?
=
Nihimon, how many are in the 7th Veil? And also concerning TEO also Potentially the questions to ask are:
1. How many are needed to claim a settlement of the 15 in EE (let's say)?
2. How many are needed to run the settlement in it's Min. Viable Form?
3. What numbers are required for each growth stage and to successfully defend?
4. Are there enough experienced players on board to fill the senior positions - or at least dedicated players in those roles with tight connections?
[wild speculation]
If 7th Veil and TEO have enough numbers, they might wish to choose the above option 2). Make no mistake, I don't presuppose to say how any Guild/CC should act, but merely point out the options for discussion?
MA will be 7 in the 1st month of EE and possibly more upwards to 20. For eg at that size I make the guess that of the 1)-3) options the best would be 1) where 20 who are interested in pvp could slot right into that role of security in a fully functioning settlement (ignoring taxes and other matters for now). That said, MA might generate more interest in PFO and bring a full 200 people into the game whereupon founding a new settlement might be preferable and a whole other consideration. Building strong alliances with other strong settlements could only be a good thing in such a situation.
Alternatively a small guild of 20 members might prefer to see if they can combine with any other CCs via 2) for all sorts (eg Zen's 2)!) of reasons or 3).
[/wild speculation]
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, how many are in the 7th Veil?
I'm not sure what you're asking. We have 57 members, and 49 votes in the Land Rush.
I think some people have gotten the wrong impression. The Seventh Veil and The Empyrean Order have been allies for some time now. Both of our organizations still have the same fundamental plans we've had all along, it's just that I personally am much more focused on the first goal of establishing a Settlement, rather than the long-range goals that come after that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, how many are in the 7th Veil?I'm not sure what you're asking. We have 57 members, and 49 votes in the Land Rush.
As far as I can assess, the 3 largest "guilds" are Pax, TEO, 7th-V. So I'm curious what numbers each has. I'm also curious to find out what the minimum viable number of members of a settlement will turn out to be, or at least tolerable for each member if the game does not determine a lower limit. That number might influence various CC's decisions to join or form settlements.
Have either the 7th-V or TEO considered founding a settlement together under any conditions?
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Goblin Squad Member
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That is sad, if numbers make decisions about who to join. :(
It should really be a matter of getting to know some of the members, the leadership, and as much info on the plans/goals/how they operate. Doing a little back and forth and deciding whether you can co-operate well together.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Have either the 7th-V or TEO considered founding a settlement together under any conditions?
At the moment, our plans remain largely unchanged: we each want to establish a Settlement, and go from there. We recognize the possibility that the three largest guilds on the Land Rush Leaderboard may not be the three largest guilds that get into Early Enrollment. If it turns out that we're not big enough to warrant a Settlement Grant during the Land Rush, we'll definitely join TEO in their Settlement until such time as we can branch out.
So I'm curious what numbers each has.
I think it's safe to assume that TEO is by far the largest guild currently represented on the Land Rush Leaderboard, with well over 100 members.
It should really be a matter of getting to know some of the members, the leadership, and as much info on the plans/goals/how they operate.
I agree, which is why I just made the post Building a Community.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bringslite, I'm asking a "what" question, not a "how" question.
Numbers are a good place to build a picture of what the community is doing: There likely will be a minimum viable population size for running a settlement successfully. If any of the 8,500 ($35+ KS backers wants to get into a settlement the first day they are available (and in future): They have 3 options at that juncture, I can see:
1) Is their membership big enough to "go it alone"?
2) If not, are there similar groups who are compatible to join to be big enough and "go it together"?
3) If not, is waiting it out and exploring options the best option, "wait and see"?
All I have found out so far, is that Pax is big enough and competent enough for 1) and have offered a form of sub-membership for CCs who might have formed out of the KS pool of 8,500 (8,546 I counted more precisely including the x6 at one pledge level).
I'm currently asking question about the 7th-V and TEO to add to the picture. I take it as a given players will:
It should really be a matter of getting to know some of the members, the leadership, and as much info on the plans/goals/how they operate. Doing a little back and forth and deciding whether you can co-operate well together.
If I know membership numbers for pax, 7thV, TEO I can deduct those numbers from the 8,500 KS'er backers and keep a tab on where the numbers are (within useful estimation) of the current PFO Community. Most appear not to be worrying about organizing until closer to EE. But the numbers that can be tracked down, I'm still interested in.
The current landrush should be taken with a huge dose of salt frankly. People could vote multiple times and while it was only the eligible that were meant to post it is almost a certainty that some of the votes cast are invalid either from people not reading who was eligible or not fulfilling their pledges.
Certainly we in Aeternum are not relying on the numbers on that landrush poll. Ryan has said that polling will be redone in the near future and that it could be restricted to those who have fulfilled their pledges this time. I would expect that at the time when they rerun it they may send out a mass email to all those that are eligble to vote with a link to the poll.
We certainly know of the 9200 or so eligble only the small fraction that visit the forums have voted and until the new poll is done I think any guild relying on its current poll position may be in for a shock. In fact it wouldnt surprise me if all of the top 15 guilds were actually ones that have currently 0 votes
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm currently asking question about the 7th-V and TEO to add to the picture.
As I said above, The Seventh Veil announced a similar initiative to Pax's back in February, as part of our 1 Year Anniversary.
In addition, I am actively trying to reach out with a reinvigorated sense of purpose.
I would hope that Pax would be open to the community building post I linked above, but I expect they're more inclined to believe they can do it on their own without help, and that there's too much bad blood between them and Andius for them to consider it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Numbers are a good place to build a picture of what the community is doing: There likely will be a minimum viable population size for running a settlement successfully.
All we are saying is that numbers up until this point can be feigned. I would adopt the approach of gauging an organization based off of activity. While it is harder to do, it is much more accurate.
@Drakahn - Not to rub salt on the wound, but how many of those members showed up at your last team speak meeting? A tenth of that? I'm not trying to drag you guys through the mud, but don't come to our thread posting over-inflated numbers when barely a fraction of 139 are doing anything at all on your forums.
I'm currently asking question about the 7th-V and TEO to add to the picture.As I said above, The Seventh Veil announced a similar initiative to Pax's back in February, as part of our 1 Year Anniversary.
In addition, I am actively trying to reach out with a reinvigorated sense of purpose.
I would hope that Pax would be open to the community building post I linked above, but I expect they're more inclined to believe they can do it on their own without help, and that there's too much bad blood between them and Andius for them to consider it.
1) We have declared and still maintain our purpose is to be a lawful neutral nation so we don't fit in your group of good aligned settlements
2) What you are suggesting is building a nation which is also our plan
3) Yes we believe we are full able to create and hold our own settlement thank you
4) We still believe trying to define "acceptable behaviour" has to be done on a case by case basis and have no interest in trying to restrict perfectly legitimate play style
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Goblin Squad Member
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1) We have declared and still maintain our purpose is to be a lawful neutral nation so we don't fit in your group of good aligned settlements
My list was not meant to be exhaustive. I'm in PMs right now with someone who might be interested in reviving the Shadow-Haven concept.
The point is not to organize under common alignments, but rather under common principles about the nature and standards of the community.
2) What you are suggesting is building a nation which is also our plan
No, it's not.
The Seventh Veil and The Empyrean Order - as I've said a number of times now - are still operating under the same plans we've each separately had for a long time, which involves each of us developing separate Player Nations.
We... have no interest in trying to restrict perfectly legitimate play style
We have no interest in that, either.
As I tried to make clear, our purpose is in answering Ryan's call to build a community that is committed to a common goal. I have no idea how that community will ultimately manifest itself. It might be a single Settlement, or it might be a host of Nations. That will be determined later. The goal right now is just to build the community.
@Nihimon
Perhaps you need to rephrase a little then because reading the building a community post it certainly sounded to me like you were attempting to build a nation consisting of several good aligned settlements. I will reread later however. I know I wasn't the only one to interpret it that way as I happened to be on PfoFan TS with others when you posted it and they commented about it being that as well
As to the restricting legitimate play I quote you here
"But there's something else that's even more important, and that's defining and defending the standards of behavior that will keep this community from devolving into a toxic wasteland like most other Open PvP games."
This is exactly what the treaty that shall not be named attempted if I am not mistaken and that certainly was talking about legitimate playstyles being unacceptable. Perhaps that is not what you meant however you can see where my supposition comes from I hope
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Drakahn - Not to rub salt on the wound, but how many of those members showed up at your last team speak meeting? A tenth of that? I'm not trying to drag you guys through the mud, but don't come to our thread posting over-inflated numbers when barely a fraction of 139 are doing anything at all on your forums.
It's hard to keep people posting about something when we honestly have no idea what the end mechanics are going to solidify into. Right now we have no idea if CC x is actually going to have its members play or even if they will be good at the game. All we can really do is try to get to know one another and see where the pieces fall come launch.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That number might influence various CC's decisions to join or form settlementsThat is what sparked my thought and response Avena. No attempt to incite. :)
I'm sure most (if not all) the poster in this forum would be very good company to form a guild/cc/settlement with. But the organizational structure takes more time to work out.
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@Phyllain
Precisely what I was saying, I think numbers for all of us are a little dubious at the moment and we in Aeternum are taking the view that the proof of numbers will be bodies in the game after 6 months frankly.
There will be not just the untrustable nature of the current landrush but the normal attrition rate of players finding that PfO is not the game they hoped it would be. I think even Ryan expects a pretty low retention rate of early enrollers and it is perfectly natural.
Eve I believe has a retention rate of about 20 to 30% on new players(I haven't seen figures for a long while though) and it manages to continue to grow so I suspect PfO will be ok that way
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Goblin Squad Member
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The current landrush should be taken with a huge dose of salt frankly. People could vote multiple times and while it was only the eligible that were meant to post it is almost a certainty that some of the votes cast are invalid either from people not reading who was eligible or not fulfilling their pledges.
Certainly we in Aeternum are not relying on the numbers on that landrush poll. Ryan has said that polling will be redone in the near future and that it could be restricted to those who have fulfilled their pledges this time. I would expect that at the time when they rerun it they may send out a mass email to all those that are eligble to vote with a link to the poll.
We certainly know of the 9200 or so eligble only the small fraction that visit the forums have voted and until the new poll is done I think any guild relying on its current poll position may be in for a shock. In fact it wouldnt surprise me if all of the top 15 guilds were actually ones that have currently 0 votes
Interesting prediction. I mean, we have no idea, do we? There isn't a whole lot of previous games that went this route to help us forecast.
But I'd say that's a hindsight prediction. Remember that at the time the land rush poll was advertised as being THE tool they were going to use to distribute land during EE. So while I agree there is most likely a few silent organized guilds waiting in the weeds that gave to the kickstarter, I think the the Land Rush poll is a pretty fair representation of who is actually planning on organized play during the first stages of EE.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Instead of quibbling over quotes and people defending their numbers, can we get back to what this thread is actually about?
The Sponsored Charter Company-
As Pagan stated in the FAQ, we have a system in place to where another organization can ally with us. You might think to yourself, of course you do.
You are treated the same way any other Pax Aeternum member or settlement is treated. At the same time, you can expect to be held to the same standards of conduct that we hold ourselves to.
So what does all of this mean for you?
If you are a merchant group, you don't have to outsource for guards. You get them at the same rate we would charge our own merchants. You'll also have access to all of our crafting facilities. The Aeternum Trade Alliance will help you out if your work runs dry.
If you are a merc group, you'll be able to fight along side the Steel Legion and earn the same pay while having constant content at your disposal.
If you are a small roleplay troupe, we've got you covered if you need assistance hosting an event. The Aeternum Consortium will be more than happy to help.
Are you and your friends into Bounty Hunting? A large entity is sure to have a target on our back, and when we do get killed, we'll need people to collect those bounties. The Bloodwolf Clan is more than capable, but you can never have enough bounty hunters. Run with these guys and gals and collect a few. Hell, take our contracts and fill them by yourselves.
We don't make alliances that do not benefit just ourselves. If both parties aren't getting their just due our of the deal, we don't come to terms.
As head of the State Department for Aeternum, I've been drafting a template for Terms of Alliance. The reason it is still in draft is because we within Pax Aeternum want to ensure that we are doing enough for our allies.
Ok, we can give merchants guard support when they move... but what if they don't have work?
Sure bounty hunters can take our contracts, but what if they get shorted with personnel because of some unforeseen circumstance on their end? What do we, as Pax Aeternum, do to support them in that instance.
The more you get into it, the tougher those questions and the ones that follow it become. The point is, we are asking ourselves those questions, figuring out the answers, and getting into the weeds of organizational functionality. We are not going to have someone ally blindly with us and not know what they are getting themselves into or what we ask of them.
Once allied, we owe you that much and we intend to deliver.
@Avari
Certainly when the poll was done it was correct for the time. However as a repoll has been announced then we are taking the view all bets are off. A lot will depend on when the new poll is and how Goblinworks handles it.
It is also quite possible the new poll won't bear any relevance to the numbers available to the top 15 guilds when settlements go live in early enrollment due to the aforementioned attrition of players finding the game is not what they wanted after all.
I would certainly not be surprised if one or more of the top 15 in the new landrush was finding itself embarrassed in the player department when the settlements enter the game. In many ways Goblinworks might be better giving out the landrush positions at that point to the top 15 organisations. That way people would have time to assess each other and find compatible matching companies
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Goblin Squad Member
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Mr. Dancey has previously mentioned that training spots will be a commodity. In his quote, he made it sound as if it might even have to be rationed within a settlement. If this is true, how will members of aligned/sponsored communities "get in line" to be trained? Will Pax put in place a lottery system, will Pax (or any other settlement) members always get priority, or will there be some other system to allocate limited resources?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Avari
Certainly when the poll was done it was correct for the time. However as a repoll has been announced then we are taking the view all bets are off. A lot will depend on when the new poll is and how Goblinworks handles it.
It is also quite possible the new poll won't bear any relevance to the numbers available to the top 15 guilds when settlements go live in early enrollment due to the aforementioned attrition of players finding the game is not what they wanted after all.
I would certainly not be surprised if one or more of the top 15 in the new landrush was finding itself embarrassed in the player department when the settlements enter the game. In many ways Goblinworks might be better giving out the landrush positions at that point to the top 15 organisations. That way people would have time to assess each other and find compatible matching companies
Yeah, I agree with that. I see the inherent problems of the Land Rush being a year or whatever before they actually dole out the land. But I still think the CC's that were active in the poll and are the same CC's that are active here the forums are also the same ones that will be most prominent in the first phase of EE.
You just plain flat out aren't planning on playing phase 1 EE if you didn't ask for land.
If the slots are scarce to the point we don't have enough to go around I would imagine that we will use some sort of queue system for it. All citizens of a settlement having equality in terms of queuing.
As I understand it slots will be based on the skill...so for example a fighter hall may be able to train Hamstring 5 four times a day ,rend 3 6 times a day and smack in the mouth 9 times a day. If such is the case you will put your name in the queue for the skill you want.
However I think the basic answer you are looking for as we are guessing the specifics is that there will be no difference in eligibility between Pax settlement members and sponsored company members. As I said we are one nation, we do not intend to have second class citizens.
This will go for all limited resources.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As far as I am aware every single vote for TEO on the Guild Rush is tied to someone who pledged the needed amount to the kickstarter. If there is a conspiracy it isn't tied to or known about by high leadership, which makes me inclined to say there isn't one.
TEO has been running a similar program as well. Our program is intended to allow chartered companies and settlements under our protection a high degree of freedom. Beyond that, our ties to TSV allow us to really offer variety. You want to tie yourself to a neutral good group with a powerful military and champions? Charter with TEO. You want to join a true neutral group with a focus on knowledge and learning? Charter with TSV. You want to run your own settlement, according to your own rules? Settle nearby us and sign a mutual defense pact.
Either way you enjoy our protection, can charter groups with us to train in our facilities, and will not be required to take part in any non-defensive conflicts of ours.
We do however, only offer this to non-RPK groups, and to charter with TEO you need to be good or neutral. Chaotic forces are welcome though, and TSV may not have the same restrictions as us.
If anyone is interested PM me or register as an ambassador on our forums.
-Andius
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Andius - I must say, it's quite flattering that with your 139 members and all, you come to a Pax thread to advertise a program similar to our own... which we specifically created a separate thread to promote.
Why would you not create you own thread? I mean, really, is this going to degenerate into hijacking each others threads... it really is petty, but I hope it helps you regain at least some of your lost momentum.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I mean, really, is this going to degenerate into hijacking each others threads... it really is petty...
That's interesting... most of the above links aren't working correctly. I have fixed them and listed them below.
Now how's that for shameless plugging ;)
Surely we're among friends, and don't need to get testy about it...
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Goblin Squad Member
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That was from May, right? It also seems to be from the guild link listing thread, and not a TSV or TEO promotional thread.
I thought it was a bit funny myself, but I do admit I might not have seen it as funny if another organization had done the same.
As far as I know we have not done the same in a promotional thread. We shouldn't be, even when we are not paid the same courtesy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Dak
Well, actually.... uh, I did it.
Then on behalf of Pax Aeternum, I apologize to any organization that has had to suffer one of our members hijacking your personal threads for the purpose of recruitment.
I will ping the leadership to see if we need to make a clear statement on our forums about that. That should be a line not to cross.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Dak
Well, actually.... uh, I did it.
Then on behalf of Pax Aeternum, I apologize to any organization that has had to suffer one of our members hijacking your personal threads for the purpose of recruitment.
I will ping the leadership to see if we need to make a clear statement on our forums about that. That should be a line not to cross.
I concur. This is probably a good policy for all of our organized groups to consider. A lot of folks are passionate about the game and are equally so about the social communities we are building. Talking about them with any given opening is a strong temptation we should all weigh carefully the appropriateness of surrendering to.
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Goblin Squad Member
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At the very least, we should not recruit members from each other's thread.
It happens all the time in community threads, and all of us have been guilty of it in that regard. I certainly don't want to be of an over policing opinion.
But sniping each other's CC/Settlement/Kingdom threads? I think that is a fair line.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A statement has been made to the general population of the community. My apologies, as until now this had been something we took as implied. I concur that recruiting threads... be it individual or sponsored companies should be off limits. The statement follows along those lines.
Here is the link for records sake.
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Goblin Squad Member
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These are not private threads. Stop getting tied in knots about who owns which threads. As far as I am concerned this is my thread as much as anyone else's, and I'm not even a goblin yet.
I'm pretty sure the social norm on this board since day one has been to respect what the community views as "official company advertisements" more commonly known as a recruitment thread.
All that we are asking is for that same courtesy to be extended to us in our endeavors as it has been to others by not only ourselves, but others as well.
Bringslite came forward about his action and that is how we found out about it and if you read above you can see we made it clear that it was not our policy. No one came to us in complaint, he came forward willingly, we addressed the problem, rectified the situation. There is nothing more we can do on that front.
Let me be clear, it's not an objection to someone posting on the thread. Whoever can post whatever they want, but when it comes to advertisements and promotion of initiatives, do what everyone else is doing... make your own thread, don't hijack the one we made.
Is that really too much to ask?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Moving on,
I like that several companies are working to build outside themselves.
If I may, I will suggest a topic for further discussion:
-how will your company specifically work to build order among other companies within this alliance?
-how will that differ from how you will build order within your company?
-will you, and if so how will you spread and build order outside of this alliance?
And thank you for using the term "sponsored" to refer to your settlement supporting company. It's good for clarity's sake.