SO I have been looking into the idea of a switch hitter Gunslinger/Ranger. Its been done before, but I want to nail this down.
I want to use a musket-axe. Seems the way to go, no need to worry about weapon cords or Quickdraw.
My goal here is to attain DEX to damage around level 11-12. By then it would be worth having, after acquiring some magic items. With the touch attack firearms, even a mediocre DEX is viable as a dedicated ranged character for most of his career. Since it is a small group (three) being capable in melee is a good thing. Also going to be carrying a mighty composite longbow for easy to hit targets, or when i REALLY need that STR bonus to damage. Or when bullets don't fit the budget. Or for stealth.
I am looking at Musket Master. Does the free Rapid Reload you get count for all muskets (including musket-axe) or just the bare bones musket?
It is looking like we will be going by PFS rules mostly, max level 12, 20 point buy.
Human, Gunslinger 5/Ranger 7? (R2, G3, R4, G2, R1)
STR 14 (16)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 8
traits:
Carefully Hidden
Reactionary
1 Point Blank Shot
1 Power Attack
3 Precise Shot
5 Rapid Shot
7 Furious Focus
9 Cleave
11 Toughness/Iron Will
Musket Master
3 Rapid Reload
Ranger
2 Deadly Aim
6 Improved Precise Shot
Equipment:
Musket-Axe
Breastplate (maybe mithril someday)
Spare battle axe
Composite Longbow
How does it look, guys?
I'm not an amazing theory-crafter myself, so I'll weigh in on what I can.
There's an active FAQ thread about the Rapid Reloader aspect of the Musket Master archetype here. For what it's worth, I would say only to the standard musket, but we'll hopefully get a clarification soon.
I'd switch Int and Wis. Both Grit and Casting are going to rely on it, and with the ranks in Ranger and being a human, you should be fine for skills.
You're short a feat. At your fourth level of gunslinger, you gain a bonus feat, which I think would be 10th level on your build.
I'm not sure Cleave will be super useful at 9th level. At that point, you're just shy of getting a third iterative attack, though I suppose the advantage of having both attacks be a full BAB might outweigh the restriction of both enemies needing to be adjacent. Still, at that point, you might be better off spending the feat on other things.
The thing I noticed about grit and casting: I will never cast more than 2nd level Ranger spells; I only get one more Grit for having 14 WIS. Hence i just left it at 12. In any case, switching the two works, and doesn't change the build much.
Yes, I am shy a feat at 4, too late to edit it apparently?
Anyway, I would use that slot on Cleave, and that opens up a later feat for Iron Will or something. Maybe Weapon Focus: Musket-Axe. Thoughts/suggestions?
One guy decided to play a Quingong (sp?) Monk, other fella is still drifting. I'm liking this build on surface value for its melee/ranged/skill ability. Ranger wands can help a lot, being pressed into being a combat medic seems likely at some point.
Hopefully the other guy goes for some kind of role with secondary healing or arcane artillery.
Thanks for looking in, everyone!
Didja ever think of using the Trench Fighter archetype?
It gets Dex to damage at 3rd level, but only for one type of gun. Take 3 levels of Fighter, the rest Ranger, and you should be gold.
oh.... no? What book is that in? I've been out of the loop on new publications.
Just looked up Trench Fighter. Couple problems, actually.
1.) Does not allow for the Rapid Reloading of two handed firearms, as per Musket Master.
2.) Doesn't actually gain proficiency with firearms. I think (considering the blurb mentioning 20th century) that it is assumed Firearms are at least martial weapons, as per common firearms optional rules.
Otherwise I totally would.
It was released in Reign of Winter I think. It's a Fighter archetype, found here.
Best part, it still keep Weapon Training, so if you take another 2 levels you can get the +1 attack/damage with your gun as well. Though I'm unsure if it applies to both the musket end and the axe end or not.
Great dip class IMO, very fun to play with and makes guns viable for more than just Gunslingers.
One downside MAY be that it doesn't give you Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Firearms, so you still have to buy the Feat, but that Bonus Feat the Fighter gives makes that a non-issue.
You could also take the Trophy Hunter Ranger archetype to get access to Deeds (though at the expense of your Combat Style Feats...which you don't particularly need anyway, since a lot of them are incompatible with guns if memory serves).
Also doubles the effective range of your guns vs your Favored Enemies and makes you an even better tracker than the Ranger ALREADY was, at the expense of your Wild Empathy (oh no...) and Hunter's Bond.
With these two archetypes you could make a pretty baws dude I think.
Do something like this:
Human Trench Fighter 3/Trophy Hunter 9
Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
^Without gear or level increases.
Feats:
1.) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Firearms
1.) Point Blank Shot
1.) Power Attack
2.) Precise Shot
3.) Rapid Reload
5.) Rapid Shot
7.) Furious Focus
9.) Deadly Aim
11.) Iron Will
Deeds:
1.) Deadeye
6.) Gunslinger's Initiative
10.) (Future) ???
Grab a belt of Dex/Str and upgrade it when you can, as well as the Wis headband.
still lacks the ability to reload two handed firearm as a free action. Otherwise, a good take I think. It is a fairly crippling flaw, though.
Yeah, but I was running on the assumption that the axe end would be your primary method (since all you REALLY need is Power Attack to be an effective combatant there) with the musket as a back-up option.
S'too bad your game's not going to a higher level, otherwise you could snag the Lightning Reload Deed at 14th. =/
You COULD also just go straight Gunslinger and fluff him as a Ranger-y character, to make things simple. Maybe take 2 levels of Ranger for the Combat Style Feat, class skills, etc.
You still get Martial Weapon Proficiency, proficiency in all firearms right off the bat, full BaB, and a few Bonus Feats.
Guns are short ranged ranged options, which conflicts slightly with the main idea of the switch hitter, who will switch to melee when enemies get close.
1.) I am not missing Deadly Aim, it comes at level 2 Ranger.
2.) Going pure Gunslinger, or Gunslinger X?Ranger 2: I'm not seeing what Gunslinger is really giving me past level 5. couple meh Deeds, nimble, an extra feat. Ranger gives Med. Armor, an Animal Companion for scouting, more skill points, Favored Enemy, Favored Terrain, a couple spells, and a feat.
3.) I don't think Dervish Dance is actually viable. It costs two feats just to deal DEX as damage... plus i would need Quickdraw, weapon cords... OR I can use STR in melee for free.
4.)I see the point of "guns be short range ranged", so why do you need the melee component?
well, throw distance on that gun, and its got shortbow range. (a bit expensive, sure).
Secondly, I don't think I have ever actually had more than a couple times in 10 years plus of gaming, that I have been like "oh, man, good thing I had a longbow instead of a shortbow." And, to answer that, I would carry a composite longbow.
Whereas the typical Ranger switch hitter a la Treantmonk is a melee character who opens with a volley, and otherwise uses a bow only occasionally; this character is meant to keep at ranged until absolutely no other choice is available.
IF it helps, the short campaign we will be playing in will center around some airship combat, so some 20x60-75 ft spaces, if the GM is using the PF models. For ship to ship: Bow.
Thanks for the advice, its given plenty to think about, keep it coming!
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SO, taking into account everyone's suggestions:
1.) More DEX focused.
2.) Swapped INT and WIS.
3.) Removed Cleave, leaving Power Attack and Furious Focus as only melee feats.
Basically this makes a gunslinger with a melee fall back. Interestingly, historically about 1/3 of battlefield casualties were due to bayonets, not the actual muskets.
Also took all 5 gunslinger levels in one go. I would take them first. but the idea seeped into my head of a typical Ranger/Warrior having a gun encounter which goes badly for him and company, after which he begins using firearms to counter/ in revenge. I'd like to think this is my only major concession to the RP gods.
Human, 20 point buy, Ranger 2/Gunslinger 5/Ranger 5
STR 15 (4>16)
DEX 14 (16) (8,12>18)
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 7
1 Point Blank Shot
1 Power Attack
3 Deadly Aim
5 Rapid Shot
7 Furious Focus
9 Iron Will
11 Toughness
Ranger
2 Precise Shot
6 (lvl 11) Improved Precise Shot
Gunslinger (Musket Master)
3 (lvl 5) Rapid Reload: Musket(s)
4 (lvl 6) Weapon Focus: Musket Axe
Again, rolling with a musket axe, breastplate (later mithril Kikko), spare battle axe/sword, maybe a heavy shield, just in case.
Looking better? Any suggestions? Thanks, everyone!
If you pick up a shield use either a buckler or ring of shielding. Both would be better than a heavy shield for you character.
The Heavy Shield is merely a possible back up. I would obviously prefer shooting or two handing a musket axe. its a "I lost my gun and REALLY need some AC with this back up longsword".
Freebooter is definitely a good idea... I normally would take it without a second thought, but I am pondering the idea of a Animal Companion Hawk or some such, for scouting purposes. Either way, the basic build is intact.
As far as optimization goes, can this build hold its own alongside an optimized, pure gunslinger?
Can anyone recommend any great items to look for?
Examples: wands, particular enchantments for weapons/armor, wondrous items, etc.
Thanks for the help everyone!
one last shameful bump?