Quote: Dirty Trick
Source: Advanced Player's Guide.
You can attempt to hinder a foe in melee as a standard action. This maneuver covers any sort of situational attack that imposes a penalty on a foe for a short period of time. Examples include kicking sand into an opponent’s face to blind him for 1 round, pulling down an enemy’s pants to halve his speed, or hitting a foe in a sensitive spot to make him sickened for a round. The GM is the arbiter of what can be accomplished with this maneuver, but it cannot be used to impose a permanent penalty, and the results can be undone if the target spends a move action. If you do not have the Improved Dirty Trick feat or a similar ability, attempting a dirty trick provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.
If your attack is successful, the target takes a penalty. The penalty is limited to one of the following conditions:
blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, or sickened.
This condition lasts for 1 round. For every 5 by which your attack exceeds your opponent’s CMD, the penalty lasts 1 additional round. This penalty can usually be removed if the target spends a move action. If you possess the Greater Dirty Trick feat, the penalty lasts for 1d4 rounds, plus 1 round for every 5 by which your attack exceeds your opponent’s CMD. In addition, removing the condition requires the target to spend a standard action.
A few questions:
1) Examples were provided in the above description for blinded and sickened, but nothing for deafened, entangled, or shaken. Can anyone think of examples for these abiities?
2) The second paragraph limits the conditions to "blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, or sickened", but the first paragraph specifically states that you can use dirty trick to half an enemy's speed. Which one is correct?
3) Why does text say that a person can "usually" remove the condition with a move action. Are their times when a move action would not work? If so, what are they?
4) Is dirty trick finessable? Does weapon finesse suffice in allowing you to use your dexterity to perform a Dirty Trick? All of the examples for performing a dirty trick seem to be finesseable "unarmed stike-like" manuevers. Is agile manuevers required?
5) Is there a range for dirty trick? Kicking dirty in someones eyes, for example, what is the range for that?
Maybe I needed a seperate thread for each question, but let's see if there is anyone who can answer all of these at once.
Driver 325 yards wrote: A few questions:
1) Examples were provided in the above description for blinded and sickened, but nothing for deafened, entangled, or shaken. Can anyone think of examples for these abiities?
2) The second paragraph limits the conditions to "blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, or sickened", but the first paragraph specifically states that you can use dirty trick to half an enemy's speed. Which one is correct?
3) Why does text say that a person can "usually" remove the condition with a move action. Are their times when a move action would not work? If so, what are they?
4) Is dirty trick finessable? Does weapon finesse suffice in allowing you to use your dexterity to perform a Dirty Trick? All of the examples for performing a dirty trick seem to be finesseable "unarmed stike-like" manuevers. Is agile manuevers required?
5) Is there a range for dirty trick? Kicking dirty in someones eyes, for example, what is the range for that?
Maybe I needed a seperate thread for each question, but let's see if there is anyone who can answer all of these at once.
1) Hit them in the ear, throw a coat rack on them, roar really loudly at them while jumping out of a dark corner and flexing. Pretty much, use your environment and your imagination and your GM will tell you if it's just too absurd to possibly work.
2) See the part of the maneuver description that reads, "The GM is the arbiter of what can be accomplished with this maneuver, but it cannot be used to impose a permanent penalty, and the results can be undone if the target spends a move action."
3) See #2.
4) Nope, that's what the Agile Maneuvers feat is for (Dex instead of Str to modify CMB rolls).
5) Melee, like most combat maneuvers. If your melee reach is extend for whatever reason, so is the range at which you can do this.
Driver 325 yards wrote: 4) Is dirty trick finessable? Does weapon finesse suffice in allowing you to use your dexterity to perform a Dirty Trick? All of the examples for performing a dirty trick seem to be finesseable "unarmed stike-like" manuevers. Is agile manuevers required? You can use Weapon Finesse with maneuvers if the maneuver uses a weapon. That's the default for trips, disarms, and sunders, and at the GM's discretion can be used for things like Dirty Trick, if you use your weapon to do it. You can read this blog for more details about that.
Dirty trick is purely player and GM imagination agreeing that a particular action provides a particular result.
2) pulling down pants to halve movement is an example of entangled, as entangled gives various penalties, one of which is half move speed.
3) gr dirty trick improves it to a standard action to remove, which is when it gets fun.
4) if done with a weapon, yes finesse applies.
5) Using a whip/polearm for some of these is a viable option, my character routinely uses his scorpion whip to drag enemies cloaks over their head to inflict blinded, which then lets him move around them without AoOs (and if they were close enough to 5ft to them would let him then sneak attack with his other attacks).
RainyDayNinja wrote: Driver 325 yards wrote: 4) Is dirty trick finessable? Does weapon finesse suffice in allowing you to use your dexterity to perform a Dirty Trick? All of the examples for performing a dirty trick seem to be finesseable "unarmed stike-like" manuevers. Is agile manuevers required? You can use Weapon Finesse with maneuvers if the maneuver uses a weapon. That's the default for trips, disarms, and sunders, and at the GM's discretion can be used for things like Dirty Trick, if you use your weapon to do it. You can read this blog for more details about that. Great link. I read this link to mean that dirty tricks are finessable if you are using you hands to perform them and if you have unarmed strike.
Do you read it the same way?
TGMaxMaxer wrote: Dirty trick is purely player and GM imagination agreeing that a particular action provides a particular result....
4) if done with a weapon, yes finesse applies....
So would you agree that a person with weapon finesse and unarmed strike, who uses his hands and feet to perform a dirty trick, would add his dexterity to the CMB.
Driver 325 yards wrote: RainyDayNinja wrote: Driver 325 yards wrote: 4) Is dirty trick finessable? Does weapon finesse suffice in allowing you to use your dexterity to perform a Dirty Trick? All of the examples for performing a dirty trick seem to be finesseable "unarmed stike-like" manuevers. Is agile manuevers required? You can use Weapon Finesse with maneuvers if the maneuver uses a weapon. That's the default for trips, disarms, and sunders, and at the GM's discretion can be used for things like Dirty Trick, if you use your weapon to do it. You can read this blog for more details about that. Great link. I read this link to mean that dirty tricks are finessable if you are using you hands to perform them and if you have unarmed strike.
Do you read it the same way? No.
Blog Post wrote: Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose)
RainyDayNinja wrote: Driver 325 yards wrote: RainyDayNinja wrote: Driver 325 yards wrote: 4) Is dirty trick finessable? Does weapon finesse suffice in allowing you to use your dexterity to perform a Dirty Trick? All of the examples for performing a dirty trick seem to be finesseable "unarmed stike-like" manuevers. Is agile manuevers required? You can use Weapon Finesse with maneuvers if the maneuver uses a weapon. That's the default for trips, disarms, and sunders, and at the GM's discretion can be used for things like Dirty Trick, if you use your weapon to do it. You can read this blog for more details about that. Great link. I read this link to mean that dirty tricks are finessable if you are using you hands to perform them and if you have unarmed strike.
Do you read it the same way? No.
Blog Post wrote: Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) You did not bold the other important word, "Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose)."
And the blog you provided goes on to say, "Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers, such as when using a sap in a dirty trick maneuver to hit an opponent in a sensitive spot."
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