Free, Unlimited Alchemist Fire?


Pathfinder Society

Grand Lodge 1/5

There is a PFS legal trait in the Dungeoneer's Handbook called Destined for Greatness:

"You start with a kit (such as those found on page 7 or in Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Equipment) worth no more than 300 gp, and the expendable contents of the kit are automatically restored to their original capacity at no cost to you whenever you enter a settlement with a population of at least 2,500."

One of the available kits from Ultimate Equipment is the Troll Slayer's Kit, which contains:

"...1 vial of alchemist’s fire, 1 flask of acid, 10 torches, one tindertwig, and 5 flasks of oil."

The Troll Slayer's Kit only costs 30gp, well within the limit of the Destined for Greatness trait.

Which means for the cost of a single regional trait, you can get a free, unlimited supply of alchemist's fire and vials of acid that replenish automatically whenever you're in a modestly-sized settlement.

So ... how would this work in Society play? Even though it says that it is restored automatically, I think it's reasonable to assume that the character would need to have some amount of downtime to go shopping to replace the equipment. Could the kit be restocked more than once in an adventure, time permitting?

Also, Society play does keep a fairly tight reign on equipment and spending. Should a trait granting endless, free alchemical weaponry even be legal for organized play?

Shadow Lodge

I had to check the text of the trait, and the legality of the trait, but it would seem that you are correct.

Now the trait says whenever you enter a settlement with a population of 2,500. This means that it is very unlikely to happen twice in a single scenario, because you have to enter a settlement twice, just being in the settlement the whole scenario isn't enough, you must enter it. I imagine the trait would just allow you to replenish the kit between scenarios.

The problem I have with the trait however, it says up to 300 gold, a normal character starts with 150 gold, and traits that normally allow additional gold (like Rich Parents) are illegal, so should this trait really be legal?

The Exchange 5/5

I wouldn't worry about it. Those items don't scale up at higher levels. There are much more attractive traits to take. Alchemists can craft the hell out of those items, but it's still a standard action to use them. Most PCs have more useful things to do with their turn.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

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Aberrant Templar wrote:
Should a trait granting endless, free alchemical weaponry even be legal for organized play?

Probably not.

To address your other question, this sounds like one of those infamous "GM calls." Yes, if you were at my table you would need to have downtime to actually hit up your sources to replenish your goods. I would also say you get to replenish it once you "enter a settlement." I would not let you leave for an afternoon picnic and expect your free refill upon returning. But if your afternoon picnic took you to a different settlement you would get the refill.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

It makes me raise my left eyebrow at first, but on further thought, it's not that bad:

1) Okay, so you can restock your two splash weapons for free. That still means that, unless you purchase more as normal, you only have two (one fire and one acid). Use those up, and you still need to get back to town to get more, just like anyone else. So it's not like you can just spam them all over an encounter.

2) It's freaking alchemist's fire. Both the availability of the item and the money saved are going to become trivial REALLY fast. Honestly, it doesn't take many Day Job rolls to completely eclipse the gp value of that trait, so really, a trait that gives you +1 to a Day Job skill and makes it a class skill is probably worth more gold than this trait.

I think the real value of this trait is just "you can start your PC with some basic gear without cutting into your 150gp of starting cash". Seems fine to me.

Grand Lodge 1/5

Doug Miles wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it. Those items don't scale up at higher levels. There are much more attractive traits to take. Alchemists can craft the hell out of those items, but it's still a standard action to use them. Most PCs have more useful things to do with their turn.

Oh, I'm not really worried about it. This is more a curiosity/theory question than a "look at this amazing hack I've found guys!"

It's just that it sets up an odd situation that doesn't really seem to fit with the other campaign rules.

1.) Organized Play has mostly done away with traits that give you extra equipment or money. Heirloom Weapon was changed from a free masterwork item at the cost of a non-masterwork item to a non-masterwork item at normal cost. Traits like Rich Parents that give extra gold aren't legal for play, even though the extra boost in cash scales away after your first level or so. So this trait, giving free unlimited combat-usable equipment is an oddity.

2.) The fact that it automatically replenishes when you enter a settlement size commonly found in adventures. So it's a trait that can be used whenever the table DM says it can, which can be anywhere from "I step outside the city and then back in, because RAW" to "Can I stop off at the market and shop on our way to the next location?" There aren't a lot of traits (I can't think of any) that have the same "if the DM says so" mechanic. Most traits are somewhat more simple and limited.

3.) My big question is ... can you sell the contents? You obviously shouldn't because it's cheesy, but a gunslinger obviously shouldn't treat their starting gun as free cash and look at the number of threads that spawned before the price of the free firearm was adjusted.

4.) There are exceptions at the class level, like alchemists and gunslingers, that give free or reduced-cost equipment. But there are also restrictions on those exceptions. Plus class choice > trait choice.

*shrug* Just seemed like something to throw out there in case it was an oversight.

[Edit] For example, alchemists can craft alchemical items, but they can never sell or trade them. So while alchemists have an exception to the general no-crafting rule, they also have imposed limitations on what they can do with that exception.

Sovereign Court 3/5

For #3... I think the "Items you get for free will give you 0gp if you sell them" thing was clarified when it was discussed about PA. I could see that applying here. At a glance, it's not under my favourite posts, so I don't have a direct link for you.

2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sure it works...but compare it to:
+2 initiative(Reactionary)
A spell level reduction for metamagic (Magical Lineage/Wayang Spellhunter)
A saving throw bonus(Indomitable Faith, Survivalist, Deft Dodger)
A Perception as a class skill with a +1 to boot, etc...

Even though it equates to free money as mentioned +1 Trait to a Day Job check (or really effectively a +4 because you can pick a class skill with the right trait) is also free cash.

I don't consider this unreasonable. Also I'm a big fan of keeping things simple, and anything that reduces accounting/booking is something that gets my thumbs up.


Ok, so I know alchemists can craft in pfs, but where is the link where it says they can?

I remember reading it before but now I can't find it

Shadow Lodge

CWheezy wrote:

Ok, so I know alchemists can craft in pfs, but where is the link where it says they can?

I remember reading it before but now I can't find it

It's in the FAQ.

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