| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Yar!
Transfixing charge (from the Gendarme Archetype in Ultimate Combat) says "he deals triple the normal damage (quadruple if using a lance); this damage includes all increases from the Spirited Charge feat and from the use of a lance." Isn't that exactly the same damage multiplication as Supreme Charge when a regular Cavalier has the Spirited Charge feat, thus making the only difference between the two abilities the special effects caused on a critical hit?
Following are relevant rules quotes:
Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).
Multiplying Damage: Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.
Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage. So if you are asked to double the damage twice, the end result is three times the normal damage.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon's normal damage are never multiplied.
Supreme Charge (Ex): At 20th level, whenever the cavalier makes a charge attack while mounted, he deals double the normal amount of damage (or triple if using a lance). In addition, if the cavalier confirms a critical hit on a charge attack while mounted, the target is stunned for 1d4 rounds. A Will save reduces this to staggered for 1d4 rounds. The DC is equal to 10 + the cavalier's base attack bonus.
Transfixing Charge (Ex): At 20th level, a gendarme represents the epitome of mounted combat. Whenever he makes a charge attack while mounted, he deals triple the normal damage (quadruple if using a lance); this damage includes all increases from the Spirited Charge feat and from the use of a lance. In addition, if the gendarme confirms a critical hit on a charge attack while mounted, the attack deals maximum damage for the weapon wielded. Additional damage from weapon properties, magic effects, precision-based bonuses, or other increases are rolled normally. This ability replaces supreme charge.
Seems like the extra text in Transfixing Charge is either redundant (even though a 20th level Gendarme Cavalier will always have Spirited Charge while a normal Cavalier might not), is implying that Spirited Charge cannot be combined with Supreme Charge but can with Transfixing Charge, or was trying to say that Transfixing Charge is one multiplier higher than Supreme Charge and that Spirited Charge increases it further than listed (and yes, I have seen all of these mentioned by other people as the possible intent).
~P
Yar!
There's really so few cavaliers out there?
(aka: *bump*)
~P
Supreme Charge gets a higher damage multiplier, but Transfixing Charge always does maximum damage. However, since the majority of your damage is likely to come from static modifiers and not damage dice and since the bonuses the Gendarme provides are all bonus feats you were going to take anyways as a cavalier the gendarme archetype is what some people might call A TRAP!
Yar!
Supreme Charge gets a higher damage multiplier, ...
It looks like they have the same multiplier to me. Or are you taking it that Spirited Charge adds more to Supreme Charge than it does to Transfixing Charge... as it is already included in transfixing charge, but not in Supreme Charge, and you're interpreting Spirited Charge to add x3 with a lance?
If so, may I direct you to this thread (which explains the confusion about spirited charge and asks for clarification/faq)?
~P
I was about to edit my post, but I saw you responded because I realized I'd make a mistake. They have the same multiplier, and Transfixing Charge always does max damage on a critical(left that out before). However, most damage still comes from static multipliers not damage dice so it wont make that huge of a difference.
Sorry to revive a dead thread, but wouldn't Supreme Charge do more than Transfixing Charge? Transfixing charge x4 with a lance, and this includes Spirited Charge. Supreme Charge just says you do x3 damage with a lance... as does Spirited Charge, and lance does x2 (all while mounted charging of course). So, x3, x3, and x2. x3 + x3 would equal x5 wouldn't it? Which is already more than Transfixing Charge, and I haven't even added in the x2 from base lance. Am I missing something here?
You're adding lance in twice I think.
I did a lot of reading forums after this. What you mean is that you take the stance that both Spirited Charge and Supreme Charge mean, when they say "(or triple damage with a lance)", they aren't meaning double the damage while charging from a mount with a lance, then triple the damage with Spirited Charge, then triple the damage with Supreme Charge, but instead, it is just reminding you that charging from a mount with a lance already does double damage, so with, for example, Spirited Charge the damage multiplier would go up by one, from x2 to x3, instead of from x1 to x2.
While that may be what was intended, that is certainly not how it is worded. Still not sure where I fall on this matter...