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The Circlet of Persuasion
"grants a +3 competence bonus on the wearer's Charisma-based checks"
Charm of Wisdom granted power of the Conversion Inquisition
"You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks"
Does anyone have an official ruling on whether you could use the Circlet in conjunction with the Conversion Domain. My argument is basically that while you are using your Wisdom Modifier in place of your Charisma Modifier, it is still a Charisma based check, and therefore you do receive the bonus.
There is one other thread on the matter, but it was brief, and I don't think it properly addressed the issue.
They are still charisma based checks.
it says you are using your wisdom modifier instead of your charisma modifier
there are 2 ways your DM can treat this
1.they are wisdom based skills and can no longer use the circlet
2. for these 3 skills, your effective charisma modifier is equivalent to your wisdom modifier. allowing you to use the circlet.
but due to how much heavy lifting wisdom does for an inquisitor
a lot of DMs might dissallow it
i'd allow it, because the skills were originally charisma based to begin with.
The skills are no longer charisma-based, so the circlet does nothing.
This works both ways. The Noble Scion feat can let you use cha instead of dex for initiative. Since initiative is a check (an ability check, specifically) and now charisma-based, the circlet would add +3. There was a recent thread on the circlet and several people were upset that by RAW the circlet could do this (as well as add to concentration checks of charisma casters) and thought it was under-priced.
Bump.
Does this have any rulings yet?
Also, mind that every class that's entitled to domain can take inquisition instead, so this isn't only for Inquisitors :)
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You're not using Charisma if you're using Wisdom. I think the answer is obvious.
There are lots of instances where you may use a different stat for a skill. There are traits that replace Cha-based skills with Int, and one that replaces a Dex-based skill with Wis. In all of these cases you would consider the skill to be based off of the stat you're actually using.
You're not using Charisma if you're using Wisdom. I think the answer is obvious.
There are lots of instances where you may use a different stat for a skill. There are traits that replace Cha-based skills with Int, and one that replaces a Dex-based skill with Wis. In all of these cases you would consider the skill to be based off of the stat you're actually using.
so, according to that logic, if I was about to use wisdom instead of dexterity to stealth, I would not have to worry about armor check penalty, because as it's written "An armor check penalty applies to all Dex- and Strength-based skill checks."
Yeah, I don't think so...
That's how it works.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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recent thread on the circlet and several people were upset that by RAW the circlet could do this (as well as add to concentration checks of charisma casters) and thought it was under-priced.
I'm in the upset crowd. ;-)
But it was made abundantly clear that if the Charisma modifier was added to the check it is then a Charisma check.
In the OP case, where it is not being added it is abundantly clear that the Devs would view it as no longer being a Charisma based check.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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You're not using Charisma if you're using Wisdom. I think the answer is obvious.
There are lots of instances where you may use a different stat for a skill. There are traits that replace Cha-based skills with Int, and one that replaces a Dex-based skill with Wis. In all of these cases you would consider the skill to be based off of the stat you're actually using.
so, according to that logic, if I was about to use wisdom instead of dexterity to stealth, I would not have to worry about armor check penalty, because as it's written "An armor check penalty applies to all Dex- and Strength-based skill checks."
Yeah, I don't think so...
There are rules stating exactly which skills suffer ACP, so your argument doesn't hold water.
There are rules stating exactly which skills suffer ACP, so your argument doesn't hold water.You're not using Charisma if you're using Wisdom. I think the answer is obvious.
There are lots of instances where you may use a different stat for a skill. There are traits that replace Cha-based skills with Int, and one that replaces a Dex-based skill with Wis. In all of these cases you would consider the skill to be based off of the stat you're actually using.
so, according to that logic, if I was about to use wisdom instead of dexterity to stealth, I would not have to worry about armor check penalty, because as it's written "An armor check penalty applies to all Dex- and Strength-based skill checks."
Yeah, I don't think so...
Is that so? Then Pardon me while I gouge my eyes out of their sockets since the Paizo Reference Document says this:
Armor Check Penalty: Any armor heavier than leather, as well as any shield, hurts a character's ability to use Dexterity- and Strength-based skills. An armor check penalty applies to all Dexterity- and Strength-based skill checks. A character's encumbrance may also incur an armor check penalty.
If this bolded section above is somewhat wrong from what I sarcastically pointed out, then I might need to see a doctor since my eyes are lying to me.
No, I didn't say it would work that way, and I'm still not saying it would. How I see it, it only changes which ability modifier I can use for an individual skill. It doesn't change the base ability of the skill in any way.
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How I see it, it only changes which ability modifier I can use for an individual skill. It doesn't change the base ability of the skill in any way.
Wisdom in the Flesh
Your hours of meditation on inner perfection and the nature of strength and speed allow you to focus your thoughts to achieve things your body might not normally be able to do on its own.
Benefits: Select any Strength-, Constitution-, or Dexterity-based skill. You may make checks with that skill using your Wisdom modifier instead of the skill's normal ability score. That skill is always a class skill for you.
Perhaps you gouged your eyes out too soon?
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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@Arkhios—You presented an argument of "If we use X interpretation, then it would cause plainly-wrong-thing-Y to happen, therefore X interpretation is wrong."
However, according to the Core Rulebook, X interpretation does NOT cause plainly-wrong-thing-Y to happen.
And since that was your only reason to conclude that X interpretation is wrong, you no longer have an argument.
Perhaps you gouged your eyes out too soon?
I was planning to, but now I might only have to settle into getting a new pair of glasses.
I had to double-check what it said in the Wisdom in the Flesh -trait, and I admit, I did interpret it wrongly. Likewise, same goes with Circlet of Persuasion. Wordings go up in nuances that one might see what one wants to see.
I guess it is that by only ones own mistakes can one truly learn.
And being so whip-lashed by my own incapability to read english to fully understand meanings, sufficed to note myself, it's still not my native tongue, as much as I'd like to consider myself almost fluent with it :I
You could debate what "based" means. The saves grow on their own, have their own modifiers, of which, the ability score is one. At least, that's how I look at them rather, than, say, a skill check. You also have the magic item advice that one thing acting like another should be priced about the same. A +3 cloak of protection is 9,000gp. A circlet of persuasion is 4,500. However, the "saves (other)" entry to magic items would cost 18,000 for a +3. I'd rule no, you don't apply the circlet to saves.
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Likewise, going backwards, the text that Arkhios provided would work for any skill that wasn't Str- or Dex-based initially, but which became so via some ability (though I can't think of any off the top of my head).Like he intimidate skill with Intimidating Prowess?
I wouldn't think so, because the skill is still Charisma-based. With Intimidating Prowess you're adding your Strength modifier as a bonus, rather than using it instead of Charisma.