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I am only a little familiar with PFS and have never actually played in a PFS game. However, I might start at some point in the near future (at the occasional convention for instance)
In all likelihood I would just use one of the pregens (at first anyway) but it looks like the only pregens you can select are the for core class icons (wizard, cleric, fighter and rogue) and the three Ultimate Magic iconics (samurai, ninja and gunslinger)
So .... no Advanced Players Guide pregens???? That seems very odd.
If there are, in fact, APG pregens, can someone point them out to me?
If there really are no APG pregens available ... can anyone explain why not?
Thanks!
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I am only a little familiar with PFS and have never actually played in a PFS game. However, I might start at some point in the near future (at the occasional convention for instance)
In all likelihood I would just use one of the pregens (at first anyway) but it looks like the only pregens you can select are the for core class icons (wizard, cleric, fighter and rogue) and the three Ultimate Magic iconics (samurai, ninja and gunslinger)
So .... no Advanced Players Guide pregens???? That seems very odd.
If there are, in fact, APG pregens, can someone point them out to me?
If there really are no APG pregens available ... can anyone explain why not?
Thanks!
There were APG pregens (alchemist, oracle, witch, and cavalier IIRC) when the APG came out. Currently, the most recent hardcover book that came out with character options is the UC, and the 3 alternate/new base class iconics are available as pre-gens (samurai, ninja, gunslinger).
I'm assuming part of the reason to change out pre-gen options is to help drive interest in the new books, so UC options now. Another, probably more relevant point, is when the APG iconics were out, they were built on 15 point buys and so were out of whack for PFS to start with.
Currently, there are the above mentioned UC pregens at 1st, 4th and 7th levels. The 4 iconics from the CRB you mentioned available at 4th level. And, the 11 CRB iconics at 1st and 7th level as found in the NPC Codex. All legal for PFS use.
Hope this helps.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I admit, I wonder why the current non-core-assumption pregens are still available.
Convention Slot 1: New guy sits down at the table with a brand-new Ninja pre-gen. Has fun, gets a Chronicle sheet.
Convention Slot 2: Now, the guy gets a choice. Either (a) play the Ninja as a pre-gen again, giving the credit to a second new PC, or else (b) buy a copy of Ultimate Combat from a dealer and continue to play the Ninja as his first-level character.
None of the CRB pre-gens have this problem. If more convention HQs made some of the other core iconics available, we could retire the UC pre-gens and avoid this problem.
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Not only available in the NPC Codex, but also for Free at the Paizo PRD.
APG pregens present a myriad of problems
1. Touched by Mortika above. New players need the books after.
2. The classes presented there are , by definition, advanced for most new players. Try giving a new player a summoner... They will have a hard time.
Alchemist - are they a spell caster? Do extracts work like a spell or a potion? Splash rules?
Cavalier - mounted combat. teamwork feats.
Inquisitor - LOTs of swift action management. Spells, judgements, codes of conduct, bane, solo teamwork feats
Oracle - honestly the only one in APG that is SIMPLER than the core counterpart (cleric).
Summoner - lord no. eidolon, summon monster SLA, spells.
Witch - about the same as wizard + hexes. May work as a pregen as well.
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Convention Slot 2: Now, the guy gets a choice. Either (a) play the Ninja as a pre-gen again, giving the credit to a second new PC, or else (b) buy a copy of Ultimate Combat from a dealer and continue to play the Ninja as his first-level character.
Why couldn't he play with this pre-gen again? It's not a second level character, or a 3rd+ chronicle sheet. If the second session was a 4th level table, he'd be able to use the 4L ninja. Then he'd apply chronicle as a firsty or sit on it until his character gets fourth level & I must be missing the difference.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Curaigh, to play a character in PFS, you need to bring all non-core material at the table, and the ninja is no longer a pre-gen. (It has new equipment, a faction, traits, etc.) So the player needs UC, because the Ninja subclass is not Core.
If the player wants to use the Ninja pre-gen, he can either use the Level 1 version and assign it to a second PC, or else he can use the Level 4 version and set it aside till the PC reaches 9 XP.
The natural question, "I like this character; can I just play her again as my PC?" has to be answered, "not by PFS rules, no." If it had been the Rogue, or the Monk, the answer would have been, "Sure!"
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Curaigh, to play a character in PFS, you need to bring all non-core material at the table, and the ninja is no longer a pre-gen. (It has new equipment, a faction, traits, etc.) So the player needs UC, because the Ninja subclass is not Core.
If the player wants to use the Ninja pre-gen, he can either use the Level 1 version and assign it to a second PC, or else he can use the Level 4 version and set it aside till the PC reaches 9 XP.
The natural question, "I like this character; can I just play her again as my PC?" has to be answered, "not by PFS rules, no." If it had been the Rogue, or the Monk, the answer would have been, "Sure!"
Technically they can't play anything without Field Guide and PFRPG core rulebook by the rules. everyone playing in PFS is required to own those books, not bring them to the table because it's assumed you own them, but you must own them.
I do think the rule that you can't play a level 1 pre-gen again and apply the credit like you can with higher level pregens is kinda silly.
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I still have the APG pregens that were used before UC was published and I occasionally use the level one versions. Usually in the case of an experienced play, with no low-tier PC, having/choosing to join a table at the last minute. Sure s/he could use a standard pregen, but maybe wants to take the opportunity to try something a little more exotic, like an alchemist. Since it is a 1st level PC, the fact it is referred to as a pregen doesn't really matter. However, I would not offer them to a brand new player. In fact most of the time, I don't even offer the UC pregens to a brand-new player and its never been a problem.
I could even see myself allowing an existing player to use a level 4/7 pregen from the APG if the subject came up. There is nothing wrong with the pregens themselves. They are legal, from a game mechanics standpoint as they always were. Its just that in order to help promote UC, they were dropped in favor of new pregens. Well, I'm sure the push to sell UC is past and it probably represents no more of the market than the APG. In any case, I wouldn't see if as a huge issue, but as I said, the subject has not come up. YMMV
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Technically they can't play anything without Field Guide and PFRPG core rulebook by the rules. everyone playing in PFS is required to own those books, not bring them to the table because it's assumed you own them, but you must own them.
Mike has repeatedly suggested cutting new players slack in regards to the core requirements. (I know you know this. I'm pointing this out for others who might read this thread.)
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I've have been considering this problem, and it seems like there is a definite lack of pre-gens available.
There should be at least TWO pre-gens for each class in any book that is in the PRD.
You should be able to adopt any pre-gen you have played, but you should have to change their name when you adopt them.
How do you people even run a Con with 7, is it really only 7? pre-gens to choose from? I ran a 2 year campaign for 4 people that had twice as many NPCs as that, all developed to the pre-gen level of detail.
I propose a contest to generate new, legal for play or adoption pre-gens, since Paizo doesn't seem to have the time to do it, and since most people don't seem to be happy with the existing pre-gens anyway.
Let's see your idea of an ideal pre-gen. Please include Ability scores for a 20 point buy, with appropriate racial modifiers, Skills and Feats for the character at levels 1, 4 & 7, and any readily available equipment that you think they should have. You get 150 GP for 1st level equipment buys, and 1500 per level (500 per scenario) up to 4th and 4500 per level(1500 per scenario) from 4th to 7th.
Everything has to be PFS legal, except that your restricted to using just the PRD. There have to be some limits, because the judges, who will be your fellow competitors, have to be able to easily check your work. So the PRD is it.
"Who's with me?!"
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Mike has repeatedly suggested cutting new players slack in regards to the core requirements. (I know you know this. I'm pointing this out for others who might read this thread.)
Technically they can't play anything without Field Guide and PFRPG core rulebook by the rules. everyone playing in PFS is required to own those books, not bring them to the table because it's assumed you own them, but you must own them.
Agreed, that's why I said technically :)
I think that same can apply to people playing the Ninja pre-gen at additional tables.
If someone is at a local Con, or a doubled up game-day and they want to keep playing the Ninja, I'll inform them of the rules but I will let them keep playing it for that day. Now if they come back the following week with that same pre-gen and no books, that's a different story.
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I've have been considering this problem, and it seems like there is a definite lack of pre-gens available.
There should be at least TWO pre-gens for each class in any book that is in the PRD.
You should be able to adopt any pre-gen you have played, but you should have to change their name when you adopt them.
How do you people even run a Con with 7, is it really only 7? pre-gens to choose from? I ran a 2 year campaign for 4 people that had twice as many NPCs as that, all developed to the pre-gen level of detail.
I propose a contest to generate new, legal for play or adoption pre-gens, since Paizo doesn't seem to have the time to do it, and since most people don't seem to be happy with the existing pre-gens anyway.
Let's see your idea of an ideal pre-gen. Please include Ability scores for a 20 point buy, with appropriate racial modifiers, Skills and Feats for the character at levels 1, 4 & 7, and any readily available equipment that you think they should have. You get 150 GP for 1st level equipment buys, and 1500 per level (500 per scenario) up to 4th and 4500 per level(1500 per scenario) from 4th to 7th.
Everything has to be PFS legal, except that your restricted to using just the PRD. There have to be some limits, because the judges, who will be your fellow competitors, have to be able to easily check your work. So the PRD is it.
"Who's with me?!"
I have said this on the forums before, I have first level characters that I will give to players to get them started, I think my pre-gens are easier to understand and play than many of the current pre-gens. My first level "new player" Characters also only use core material+the rules for their class.
I have said many times that I hate the design choices on some of the iconics from an organized play perspective, I like them from "this looks cool" perspective.
Two-Weapon Fighting is TERRIBLE to explain to a new player.
Ezren as a universalitist is also terrible. Fewer spells, and Hand of the apprentice? WHY? force missile is more straight forward, and makes people feel like a wizard magic missile is probably THE most iconic spell.
I also print out a page(s) from my PDF to allow new players to play with the character (assuming they own the core assumption).
One of our local player's is very happy with his barbarian, he made some changes with the 2nd level re-build but really likes it overall.
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Oh no, not the ongoing "pregens suck vs. they are just fine" argument. People, please just get over it. The pregens are based on the iconics. There are lots of reasons for that. Valeros is not going to be a sword 'n boarder or a THW guy. Ezren is not going to be a blaster.
Are the pregens optimized? No. Do they need to be? No. They are simply intended to allow a brand-new player to sit down at the table and with a short, 10 minute explanation, be capable of playing. The pregens do that just fine. I would argue that the quality of the actual gameplay is infinitely more influential to a new player sticking with it than the specifics of a pregen character they are only going to use for one, maybe two sessions. With the expansion to use the NPC Codex iconics, there is a pregen for all the core classes.