Introduction
alterations
Flurry of Blows-you use your monk level as bab when not flurrying, eliminating the minus two penalty. apply flat ac bonus as bonus to hit as well.
Fast Movement-untyped bonus
stunning fist- also changed to con
ki pool- full level plus con (to represent it being the bodies energy)
slow fall-screw the wall
Wholeness of body-moved to move action, functions as cure light wounds, for every extra two points spent, bumps it up too the next cure spell (no mass versions)
12th level-also gets abundant agility as a bonus feat.
diamond soul- now an immediate action.
new 2nd level ability
monastic teachings-a monk adds half his level to all wisdom based checks.
admittedly pretty different, mentioned this before on the new monk thread, so I thought "hey why not post it". let me know what you think.
lets try for some feedback on the con based monk.
You'd have to clarify your short-hand on the flurrying.
What I assume you're saying is that:
1. the monk is full BAB (all the time)
2. flurrying takes no penalty
3. add the static monk AC bonus (gained at level 4, 8, etc) to the attack
...
The monk you propose is much more powerful than the core monk. If that is what you're looking for, then well done.
The loss of high touch AC and CMD on the monk is a pity.
Everything else is powered up.
Con bonus to AC is cool and I really like the Monastic Teaching idea. I'm going to try this idea out, not all monk nessessarily have to be wise, some of them are just tough as nails, plus it makes for good role-playing. I'll do some play testing next week and get back to you.
You'd have to clarify your short-hand on the flurrying.
What I assume you're saying is that:
1. the monk is full BAB (all the time)
2. flurrying takes no penalty
3. add the static monk AC bonus (gained at level 4, 8, etc) to the attack
...
The monk you propose is much more powerful than the core monk. If that is what you're looking for, then well done.
The loss of high touch AC and CMD on the monk is a pity.
Everything else is powered up.
1. the monk is using his level when not flurrying, this represent the greater accuracy of a single strike. the ac bonus still applies.
2.correct
3. yes to help with the to hit without overloading it.
the idea of this class revision is to reduce mad, and change some difficult abilities into more useful versions. A power increase was intended. Thank you very much for your input, and I apologize for the shorthand.
Con bonus to AC is cool and I really like the Monastic Teaching idea. I'm going to try this idea out, not all monk nessessarily have to be wise, some of them are just tough as nails, plus it makes for good role-playing. I'll do some play testing next week and get back to you.
I'm pleased as punch to hear that, thank you.
Main problem here, you are screwing over every existing monk character based on Wisdom. As such, there is no backward compatibility between this monk and previous versions, which makes it a non-starter.
Main problem here, you are screwing over every existing monk character based on Wisdom. As such, there is no backward compatibility between this monk and previous versions, which makes it a non-starter.
true that's a downside.
If you want to reduce MAD, I think it is easier to just start with giving monks Wis to attack and damage instead of Str.
To make it work vs dips from clerics and druids, perhaps the following:
1. At level 1 a monk uses his Wisdom modifier for attacks instead of Strength or Dexterity modifiers. This only applies for unarmed strikes.
2. At level 2 a monk uses his Wisdom modifier for attacks for unarmed strikes and monk weapons (though he still takes a penalty if he is not proficient with them).
3. At level 4 a monk uses his Wisdom modifier in addition to his Strength modifier for damage.
...
Some may argue that this increases monk unarmed strikes too much - instead, I think it balanced the distinction of paying "double" for amulets of mighty fists than what a corresponding flurry weapon would cost. (Since you can flurry a single weapon.)
If you want to reduce MAD, I think it is easier to just start with giving monks Wis to attack and damage instead of Str.
To make it work vs dips from clerics and druids, perhaps the following:
1. At level 1 a monk uses his Wisdom modifier for attacks instead of Strength or Dexterity modifiers. This only applies for unarmed strikes.
2. At level 2 a monk uses his Wisdom modifier for attacks for unarmed strikes and monk weapons (though he still takes a penalty if he is not proficient with them).
3. At level 4 a monk uses his Wisdom modifier in addition to his Strength modifier for damage.
...
Some may argue that this increases monk unarmed strikes too much - instead, I think it balanced the distinction of paying "double" for amulets of mighty fists than what a corresponding flurry weapon would cost. (Since you can flurry a single weapon.)
While I think that works just as well, I wouldn't think it's necessarily an easier method, actually my changes regarding MAD actually change less of the class. In the end it's all about how you want to interpret the monk though. I am going for true Shaolin myself, but that's not necessarily how everyone else interprets it. so all I have to say is to each their own.
Wholeness of Body (alternate):
A monk who has at least 1 point of ki in his pool may heal himself of all damage as a swift action by expending all of his remaining ki points.
like it, and it actually could be a significant choice for my alternate build (significantly more ki to lose). i think i am going to adopt this.
I like these changes, but find the flurry rules confusing, too.
Let me see if I have this:
Normal attacks (and I assume maneuvers) are as if full BAB
Flurry is at normal (3/4) BAB +1/5 levels (i.e the AC bonus)?
So, a level 10 monk has +10 to normal attacks, and +9 while flurrying?
I definitely prefer the monk being based on being strong and tough and basically learning wisdom--I find that to be much more thematic.
Your Wholeness of Body change makes spending more Ki to heal inefficient, however.
At level 10+, spending 2 Ki to heal is identical to spending 1 ki twice, at level 15+, spending 3 Ki to heal is identical to spending 1 ki three times, etc. But at all earlier levels, you're best off just using the Light version repeatedly.
And no, I'm not taking in combat healing into account because it will never be worth using for that purpose unless you're about to die without it but are inexplicably outside of the enemy's notice for a round (since you can't move away safely while using it).
I think I might consider making it a Swift Action, or having it eat one of your flurry attacks or something.
|
mplindustries,
my Wholeness concept is to give a viable in-combat option amongst the other swift action ki choices. so a monk on his last point of ki has one solid final trick. inspiration half comes from the idea of the anime 'limit break', but more importantly from the title of the ability itself. and the need for the ability to distinguish itself mechanically from both Cure spells and Lay on Hands.
+5 Toaster,
as far as the idea of allowing for the unwise to join the ranks of monks, have you considered an archetype that switches in CHA for WIS? Thematically this would be the over-confident (and Intimidating) student who quickly excels at the technique who in his arrogance doesn't pause to consider the ramifications of the power he acquires being in balance with the responsibility for that very power.
1. At level 1 a monk uses his Wisdom modifier for attacks instead of Strength or Dexterity modifiers. This only applies for unarmed strikes.
I'd stick with this and apply to monk weapons also. It's no less than a cleric can get through a feat, so it's not that tempting to dip and lose those caster levels. It places Wisdom as the monk's key stat, but doesn't completely replace strength, and doesn't invalidate strength builds.
will be incorporating suggestions into a google doc soon.
@+5 Toaster
Post that link to the google doc when you're done.
well here it is, plus a few additions
link
I'm diggin it. I'm going implement it on Saturday. I'll let you know how it turns out.
any other abilities seem lack luster? i am considering capstone alter perfect self options myself
Everything seems fine. I do a little monk tweaks everytime I GM, browsing the forums and pilfer ideas for monk fixes and do some test runs. CON to AC will be something worth looking at though.
dotting.
well cause of all the monk drama, I feel like bumping this one.
I'm diggin it. I'm going implement it on Saturday. I'll let you know how it turns out.
so did you get any feedback?.
I used Con for AC in my last session with two different npc's. It didn't break the game, I just had a little more freedom in the placement of their stats, I didn't have to give them high super high stats to make them competitive. As for using CON to stun it worked out very well, it made for an exciting battle.
I used Con for AC in my last session with two different npc's. It didn't break the game, I just had a little more freedom in the placement of their stats, I didn't have to give them high super high stats to make them competitive. As for using CON to stun it worked out very well, it made for an exciting battle.
nice though it would make a sick dip for scarred which doctor however...
I'm trying my changes in a game tonight. I'll keep you posted.
I'm trying my changes in a game tonight. I'll keep you posted.
this I would definitely like to hear as well.
I would like to hear about how this works for your campaign, as well.
tweaked ki pool, slowfall, and stunning fist.
For those interested, I started a record of my monk changes in my game here.
Added a clause, Stunning fist is now usable with vital strike.
I like it overall, but Monastic Training seems like overkill. Unless I'm misreading it, isn't it effectively the same as giving a monk an increased Wisdom score equal to his level?
EDIT: As an alternative maybe increase the monks Wisdom score by 1 every even level? So a +1 bonus on checks would happen every 4 levels.
I do like the training thematically, but think this would reduce the power while keeping the flavor.
I like it overall, but Monastic Training seems like overkill. Unless I'm misreading it, isn't it effectively the same as giving a monk an increased Wisdom score equal to his level?
EDIT: As an alternative maybe increase the monks Wisdom score by 1 every even level? So a +1 bonus on checks would happen every 4 levels.
I do like the training thematically, but think this would reduce the power while keeping the flavor.
actually it's half his level, and for the monk would only apply to skill checks and will saves, resulting in a +10 to checks at level 20. I did add a caveat to prevent spell-caster dipping though. Honestly the only huge benefit this gives the monk is great perception, which isn't a bad thing. While I like your proposed change, an actual Wisdom increase may result in issues when it comes to things like prerequisites.
I can't leave it alone!!
What if I created a new 4th level ability called Insightful Proverb that allowed you to choose a knowledge skill and substitute your int modifier for wis? maybe even letting you choose an additional knowledge skill every four levels. This ability will be offset by the fact that you will be unable to glean more information than DC 20 check result.
+5 Toaster, why don't I save you some time and introduce you to the work I did while back? Mystic Monk V
I put in a 2nd level ability, World Wise, that gave the monk extra class skills, plus a host of other things. I'm going to revisit it soon, and weed out some dumb ideas while concentrating on the good ones.
+5 Toaster, why don't I save you some time and introduce you to the work I did while back? Mystic Monk V
I put in a 2nd level ability, World Wise, that gave the monk extra class skills, plus a host of other things. I'm going to revisit it soon, and weed out some dumb ideas while concentrating on the good ones.
yup pretty much gonna have to steal that one.
Another thought I had was to stop unarmed strikes progession to 1d6 and instead give a flat +1 bonus to damage every time the damage dice would go up.
Considerations
Archetypes
adding back the wis to ac for the sensei archetype, calling it insightful defense.
creating a new archetype that use charisma, called radiant acsetic, and replacing several of the spell-like abilities with flashier one's as well as a new flurry mechanic adds in the effects of dazzling display.
Might tweak some mechanics of the Shining light ability, from the Warrior of the Holy Light Paladin archetype, for the Shining Ascetic.
while i am mulling over the new shinning ascetic archetype (considering calling it radiant master instead) I added the dr bypass into the unarmed strike section.
edit: and just incorporated worldwise into monastic training, thanks dabbler.
Radiant Master ideas
1.charisma to ac, and either to hit or hitpoints
2.focused on being "flashy", and replacing several of the classes spell-like abilities for things like daylight and some-such.
3.alternate ki abilities to support social abilities.
4.replacing stunning fist with dazzling display, but have it go off whenever the monk successfully hits with 2 attacks of his flurry of blows.
changed unarmed strike to static damage, and added to perfect self.
taking dabblers comments to heart I am going to be restructuring this for current monk builds that use wisdom. I am going to rewrite it's first level abilities to include two different choices each of offensive and defensive styles. the offesive choices will support either a stand still and defend kind of play style or a skirmisher style. free vital strike feats will play a roll in skirmisher style. the defensive style will go between a con and wis based defense, but showing some extra love for wis because con would help reduce MAD.
thank you. I took the con idea from reading up in shaolin monks.
If you want to reduce MAD, I think it is easier to just start with giving monks Wis to attack and damage instead of Str.This.
well everyone and their brother is doing that, so i wanted to try something different. Truth be told, it always bothered me that a monk just starting out is expected to already be wordly and wise, AT LEVEL 1. This in and of itself flies in the face of the shaolin monks on which they are based, for they believe that true oneness and actualization comes from physical mastery, and any wisdom is taught not inherent.
soooooo for some weird reason my laptop doesn't like google docs anymore...will have to look at alternatives.