The core rules for Gnome Magic says, "Gnomes add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against illusion spells that they cast." Would you grant this bonus to a gnome shadowdancer's Shadow Illusion, Shadow Call, and Shadow Power spell-like abilities?
Shadow Illusion, Shadow Call and Shadow Power are not spells
spell like abilities are not spells, so no it would not apply.
Well, these are not the answers I was hoping for, and I cannot see how allowing the racial ability to boost spell-like ability illusion DCs breaks the game, but clearly looking at the RAW, the case is clear and I agree. Thanks.
Let me please continue to ask a few more SD questions.
The key to the shadowdancer is HIPS, and the ability specifies: "As long as she is within 10 feet of an area of dim light, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow."
Therefore, you REALLY want to make sure you are within 10 ft of dim light whenever possible. So would this work?
Buy a candle. Put it in a hooded lantern. Light it. It now sheds dim light. Close the hood on the lantern so no light can get in or out. Presumably a hooded lantern has a hole in the top or a baffle or chimney so that the light will not go out. Inside the lantern, it is dim. With no line of effect into the lantern, there is no way for light to enter the lantern and overpower the candle, so it remains dim in there.
Voila! You are "within 10 feet of an area of dim light" -- and you can hide in plain sight. You gotta carry the lantern around. Or get an unseen servant to carry it, or get your shadow companion an amulet of ghost touch so it can carry it around.
Note that the ability requires neither line of sight nor line of effect to the area of dim light. It also does not define "area" as a five ft square. Why will this not work, RAW?
"an area of dim light" is generally believe to be at least a 5ft square (or one space on a grid) that is dim light...if you would like to see the many many many many people arguing over that very ability go read the "Stealth" thread that is still going (would link but cannot copy it well from phone)
Thanks!
Edit: Posted my whacky idea over there. I'll ask my other whacky SD idea here.
You can pay a caster to cast a spell, RAW. So you can pay a wizard 1,200 gp to cast Poly Any Object on you. That lets you simulate a Beast Shape III with a permanent duration, for example, to be changed from a person to a diminutive bat (using the bat familiar stats).
So why be a bat? +6 Dex, -4 Str, flight, blindsense, natural attack, and diminutive size = +4 to hit, +4 AC, +12 stealth, +6 fly.
There's a caster strat in there with the Deaf Oracle plus Still spell feat to cast with no components, but it is very tough to be casting (almost) all your spells as if they were one level higher (verbal only spells are your friend, though).
However, I think the best bet for such a bat PC would be shadowdancer. All of the spell-like and supernatural abilities work fine. The stealth bonus is sweet.
Thoughts?
Excellent point, James! Thanks!
By RAW the lateen thing will not work. Here's why, can you see the dim light? Can your enemy see the dim light? Therefor there is no dim light. You are "assuming" (in your own words) there is dim light inside the closed lateen, but by RAW there is no way to say that there is.
Whoa! It's like the matrix: "There is no spoon."
By your logic, Pendagast, if the shadowdancer had a ring of x-ray vision active and could see into the lantern, then he could use his abilities?
If he put a mouse in the lantern, then would the dim light exist? The mouse would see it. Nothing in the rules says that the shadowdancer needs LoS to the area of dim light.
This is really a fundamental issue regarding light effects. Do light effects only exist in the presence of an observer? It is an interesting philosophical question, but not one actually supported by the rules, IMNSHO.
Cayzle, As you have seen in the other thread my position is not popular but;
If a human shoots an arrow at a target 25' away from a torch he suffers a 20% miss chance. An elf does not.
If a human tries to hide 25' away from a torch, he can hide from other humans, but not from an elf. It automatically fails against the elf.
In my possibly misguided opinion, this shows that lighting effects do only exist in the presence of the observer.
Fair enough, per the Stealth thread. But let us turn away from HiPS -- better handled over there. What about the idea I posted above ... Can you pay a wizard 1.200 gp to turn you into a bat? And if you did so, would that make a good shadowdancer?
That's a pretty drastic option, but could you pay the wizard to use Poly Any Object to emulate a permanent Alter Self and turn you into a half-orc or dwarf (for the darkvision and a +2 size bonus to Str) or into a halfling or gnome (for the low light vision and a +2 size bonus to dex)?
That's gotta be the cheapest +2 to a stat in the rules, and it stacks with enhancement and inherent bonuses as well as with level advancements.
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Well the trick would be can a bat dance? A GM could rule that dancing would invoke the "relying on your form" clause of the polymorph subschool.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
You could absolutely pay a wizard to cast permanent alter self on you, but it could be dispelled at any time later.
--Pop, lock, & Vrock it.