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Not my BELOVED bracers!!! I'm playing a Tengu Zen Archer and the whole bird motif was TO DIE FOR! If you do ban Bracers of Falcon's Crest, can I say that the bracers of *whatever I sadly replace them with* can have nice birds on them too?
Tut tut, my good man, you surely must be aware that we aren't allowed to reskin anything to look like something for which there are rules! Heaven forfend.
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I'm hoping Mike just didn't think of the case I presented. I would personally allow retraining it back. Meaning that you need to swap out the trait you took instead of Magical Knack when it was originally banned. I can't see how this could be abused.
Only that anyone who wants to swap out a trait for magical knack can then just say that they had it before.
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I'm hoping Mike just didn't think of the case I presented. I would personally allow retraining it back. Meaning that you need to swap out the trait you took instead of Magical Knack when it was originally banned. I can't see how this could be abused.Only that anyone who wants to swap out a trait for magical knack can then just say that they had it before.
That's cheating, and I can do that even if retraining is disallowed. That is, allowing retraining doesn't open any new loopholes.
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Hi all. I have sat down with Jason Bulhman this morning and discussed several of these topics.
First, we will be banning bracers of the falcon's aim until the price can be errataed.
Second, we will not be banning snow ball.
Yay, good to hear the price will be errataed!
Yay, Good to hear snow ball will not be banned!
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I must express my pleasure with the dialog here between coordinator and public. I don't necessarily agree with every decision made, but that's far beside the point.
I hope this continues, and applaud Mike for his efforts. Rules deserve to be re-examined once in a while.
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That's cheating, and I can do that even if retraining is disallowed. That is, allowing retraining doesn't open any new loopholes.I'm hoping Mike just didn't think of the case I presented. I would personally allow retraining it back. Meaning that you need to swap out the trait you took instead of Magical Knack when it was originally banned. I can't see how this could be abused.Only that anyone who wants to swap out a trait for magical knack can then just say that they had it before.
While I don't think it needs to be done under these circumstances, there have been cases where, when rules were changed, people were allowed to make changes in characters, including rewrites for former synthesist summoners.
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I must express my pleasure with the dialog here between coordinator and public. I don't necessarily agree with every decision made, but that's far beside the point.
I hope this continues, and applaud Mike for his efforts. Rules deserve to be re-examined once in a while.
I strongly agree. Great job Mike!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Hi all. I have sat down with Jason Bulhman this morning and discussed several of these topics.
First, we will be banning bracers of the falcon's aim until the price can be errataed.
Second, we will not be banning snow ball.
Huzzah, Ksenia thanks you from the bottom of her heart!
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Hi all. I have sat down with Jason Bulhman this morning and discussed several of these topics.
First, we will be banning bracers of the falcon's aim until the price can be errataed.
Second, we will not be banning snow ball.
Um ... okay. Two questions then.
One, if the bracers are coming back later, does that mean they can be grandfathered in like the APG staves? Or do I have to get my money refunded, buy two items to (partially) replace them, and then resell those later at half price to switch back to the bracers I had originally?
Two, is snowball definitely not banned? That is to say, can we go ahead and assume it's going to continue not being banned? I have some ideas for my winter witch, but I don't want to just have to remove it again later.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Hi all. I have sat down with Jason Bulhman this morning and discussed several of these topics.
First, we will be banning bracers of the falcon's aim until the price can be errataed.
Second, we will not be banning snow ball.
Um ... okay. Two questions then.
One, if the bracers are coming back later, does that mean they can be grandfathered in like the APG staves? Or do I have to get my money refunded, buy two items to (partially) replace them, and then resell those later at half price to switch back to the bracers I had originally?
Two, is snowball definitely not banned? That is to say, can we go ahead and assume it's going to continue not being banned? I have some ideas for my winter witch, but I don't want to just have to remove it again later.
1) No, they are not grandfathered in. You refund your money and go from there.
Yes, you can assume it is going to continue to be a legal option and will be looked at for errata down the road.
The PFS subforums are a strange place because they're one of the few places where it's common to say that you hate to agree with someone.
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First, we will be banning bracers of the falcon's aim until the price can be errataed.
This is why I can never have pretty things! Seriously though, I agree they are OP for the listed price.
I will second the question about what to do if we've already bought a pair. My two centavos: Be allowed to sell them for full current price and rebuy them for full price once they are erratted. (And try not to whine too much in the meantime.)
1) No, they are not grandfathered in. You refund your money and go from there.
Jynx! You, Mr. Brock, owe me a coke!
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Ok. Is this going live today? Also, are we still good for Magical Knack?1) No, they are not grandfathered in. You refund your money and go from there.
Yes, you can assume it is going to continue to be a legal option and will be looked at for errata down the road.
Yes. Magical Knack is a legal option when the web team gets Additional Resources up.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Banning/not-banning snowball?
Re-introducing magical knack?
Banning bracers of falcon's aim for an indefinite amount of time, maybe.
Let that all soak in people...
It will be ok. It is only two changes - one banning and item and one allowing a trait back in to the game. There is more added than this to Additional Resources every month.
Sounded like Snowball is in, but might get errata'd.
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Hrmm. Now I have to figure out what to do with my archer's bracers. I'd like to just wait until we get the errata so I can make a smart decision about selling them or not, but that's not a very reasonable option in the middle of Eyes of the Ten. Well, I certainly can't argue that they weren't unbalanced. I'll just have to hope that the errata comes quickish.
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Thanks so much for the transparency Mike--even though I'm sad to see snowball remain legal.
I've heard rumors that its getting an errata soon, and I think that could be great. I'm hoping that it changes so it just does flat 2d6 damage or something like that. It can still apply the killer double-kicker with rime spell (always entangled and sometimes staggered) and ignore SR without being a problem with intensify at higher levels.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Thanks so much for the transparency Mike--even though I'm sad to see snowball remain legal.
I've heard rumors that its getting an errata soon, and I think that could be great. I'm hoping that it changes so it just does flat 2d6 damage or something like that. It can still apply the killer double-kicker with rime spell (always entangled and sometimes staggered) and ignore SR without being a problem with intensify at higher levels.
Not always entangled. Entangled for 1 round. A rime spell causes creatures that takes cold damage from the spell to become entangled for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell.
He meant "always entangled" as in "if the snowball hits, they'll be entangled no matter what." Since Rime spell triggers off of cold damage, and this spell does cold damage no matter what if it hits, then they'll be entangled and/or staggered.
They'll have a bad time :)
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Thanks so much for the transparency Mike--even though I'm sad to see snowball remain legal.
I've heard rumors that its getting an errata soon, and I think that could be great. I'm hoping that it changes so it just does flat 2d6 damage or something like that. It can still apply the killer double-kicker with rime spell (always entangled and sometimes staggered) and ignore SR without being a problem with intensify at higher levels.
Not always entangled. Entangled for 1 round. A rime spell causes creatures that takes cold damage from the spell to become entangled for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell.
Sorry for the inaccuracy in my language Mike--by "always" I meant unavoidably not permanently. It does indeed last only one round. But it's a doozy anyway. Consider the snowball witch who is next to a fearsome monster that doesn't have reach but has many attacks. The witch 5-foots back and shoots a rime snowball. Even on a successful save, the monster can at best take a move action after the witch and attack one time. On a failed save, the monster can't attack the witch period (granted, ear piercing scream is just as good on a failed save, but it does allow SR).
Make the witch a sorceress focused on snowball instead, and you can lob one every round, and the reachless enemy can never get a full attack (if allies always 5-foot).
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A question though. To my knowledge, Magical Knack was originally allowed in Pathfinder Society. Are characters who hadit before the ban allowed to retrain it back?
For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain Magical Knack has been banned since the introduction of traits to PFS play (I believe at the commencement of Season 1).
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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Sorry for the inaccuracy in my language Mike--by "always" I meant unavoidably not permanently. It does indeed last only one round. But it's a doozy anyway. Consider the snowball witch who is next to a fearsome monster that doesn't have reach but has many attacks. The witch 5-foots back and shoots a rime snowball. Even on a successful save, the monster can at best take a move action after the witch and attack one time. On a failed save, the monster can't attack the witch period (granted, ear piercing scream is just as good on a failed save, but it does allow SR).
Make the witch a sorceress focused on snowball instead, and you can lob one every round, and the reachless enemy can never get a full attack (if allies always 5-foot).
Entangled: The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge.
Entagled only halves your move speed, but I think the monster can still 5 foot step unless his base movement is 5 foot or lower.
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ButSorry for the inaccuracy in my language Mike--by "always" I meant unavoidably not permanently. It does indeed last only one round. But it's a doozy anyway. Consider the snowball witch who is next to a fearsome monster that doesn't have reach but has many attacks. The witch 5-foots back and shoots a rime snowball. Even on a successful save, the monster can at best take a move action after the witch and attack one time. On a failed save, the monster can't attack the witch period (granted, ear piercing scream is just as good on a failed save, but it does allow SR).
Make the witch a sorceress focused on snowball instead, and you can lob one every round, and the reachless enemy can never get a full attack (if allies always 5-foot).
Entangled: The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge.Entagled only halves your move speed, but I think the monster can still 5 foot step unless his base movement is 5 foot or lower.
You can't take a 5-foot step if your movement is hampered
Seems pretty hampered to me when you're entangled, right?
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Hmmm. Magical Knack is still listed as not available in the just-updated Additional Resources document, in the entry for the Traits Web Enhancement. I guess the fact that it's not listed as banned in the Advanced Player's Guide entry trumps that?
Nope, I just missed the Traits Web Enhancement. It is fixed now!
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Hmmm. Magical Knack is still listed as not available in the just-updated Additional Resources document, in the entry for the Traits Web Enhancement. I guess the fact that it's not listed as banned in the Advanced Player's Guide entry trumps that?Nope, I just missed the Traits Web Enhancement. It is fixed now!
Except now it says it's illegal under Advanced Player's Guide.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Except now it says it's illegal under Advanced Player's Guide.Hmmm. Magical Knack is still listed as not available in the just-updated Additional Resources document, in the entry for the Traits Web Enhancement. I guess the fact that it's not listed as banned in the Advanced Player's Guide entry trumps that?Nope, I just missed the Traits Web Enhancement. It is fixed now!
Refresh. It shouldn't be showing in either place now.
Yeah, I get that, but I was specifically responding to the half dozen posts that were talking about Rime Spell and entanglement.The problem with Snowball is that it is hands down the best 1st level single-target damage spell in the game (unless you are a magus). Its damage is comparable to shocking grasp, but it has range. Further, it has a chance to stagger and ignores SR.
You might be thinking, "So what? It's not that big an improvement!" You would be right. It isn't that much, but it is better and that's how rules creep works. Power-gaming is all about finding things that are marginally better and then figuring out how to capitalize on that marginal edge.
Some folks were hoping to draw a line here. However, the edge is a narrow one and Mike changed his mind about banning it... and that's fine. Again, the amount of power-creep isn't huge, so it isn't worth a tantrum.
However, at GenCon, pay attention to how often you hear Wizards, Sorcerers, Witches, and Druids say, "I cast snowball."
Hmm, Magical Knack and Snowball make Arcane Trickster's pretty viable. ;-)
You could make it an evocation ray, drop the "no SR," and it's still the most powerful 1st level blast there is. Puts the rest to shame.
I expect a glut of arcane tricksters.