
RockTheGolem |
3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I'm looking into building a monk. Part of me wants to use the Master of Many Styles Archetype, but I'm having a hard time justifying losing the Flurry of Blows. One thing I was trying to work out, to help me make my decision, was how the style feats work and stack on their own, if they do. The way they're worded it sounds like there are some persistent effects the styles grant, even when not in that style. Consider the Crane and Boar styles as an example:
Crane: You take only a –2 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively. While using this style and fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class.
Boar: You can deal bludgeoning damage or slashing damage with your unarmed strikes—changing damage type is a free action. While using this style, once per round when you hit a single foe with two or more unarmed strikes, you can tear flesh. When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack.
My question is, because of the way they're worded: if I had these two feats, would I be able to be in Boar style and fight defensively with only a –2 penalty on attack rolls (but not get the additional +1 dodge bonus)? In the same respect, would I be able to be in Crane style and still be able to change the damage type my unarmed attacks do (but not have the added chance of the bleed damage)?

Ximen Bao |

If you're in MoMS and using both, you get the benefits of both.
I was going to say that if you're only using one, you get no benefit from the other without using it.
However, most of the style feats are worded, "You get X benefit. While using this style you get Y benefit."
I think I've been playing it wrong and your interpretation is RAW.

Ximen Bao |

Look up the style feats, it is a swift action to activate a style. Normally it would be limited to one at time however the Master of Many Styles allows you to use Fuse Style and have 2 styles active after spending the two swift actions to activate them (then 3 and later 4 active @ 8th/15th).
That was understood. The question was looking at the wording of a lot of styles which say up front that you get advantage X.
Period.
New Sentence-When the style is active you get advantage Y.
Based on how every other feat works, and how these feats are written, you should always be getting advantage X.

Darkwolf117 |

@ Skylancer: The question is how the benefits are split up.
Without Crane Style being active, you still have the penalty to fighting defensively reduced to -2. Without Boar style being active, you can still do bludgeoning and slashing damage with unarmed strikes.
With Crane Style active, you also have the benefit of an additional +1 bonus for defensive actions, and with Boar style active, you also gain the ability to inflict bleed damage, in addition to the effects they have while you aren't in the appropriate style.
Anyway, by the wording, it certainly looks like the two benefits are split up. I'd say the first part seems like it would be constant, though I'm not entirely positive.

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Relevant to this, I had believed that you only benefit from style feat effects while using the style. As others say, the feats are worded such that there are passive bonuses for merely having the feat, as it doesn't say anywhere that one must be using a style to gain all the benefits. HOWEVER, I believe the RAI are that you must be using the style to gain the benefits.

Skylancer4 |

How would they be 'split up' and why? They are in no way mutually exclusive. As long as conditions of the benefit are met, they are in effect after the second round swift action.
If you are using both crane and boar style then start fighting defensively the second round, you would only take the -2 penalty. If you successfully attack an opponent with an unarmed strike and later in the round hit them again with the same (let us say an AoO) the boar style would kick in and the bleed damage would occur.
I guess I don't 'understand the question' because there is no reason for it.

Darkwolf117 |

@ Nightskies: I looked up the same section to see if there was anything that specified the benefits only applied while you had the style active, but it doesn't say that. Considering how they're worded, it seems like it goes out of its way to specify the difference. Consider how much easier it would be for Crane Style to be written as:
"Crane: While using this style, you take only a –2 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively and gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class when fighting defensively or using the total defense action."
It is specifically broken into two sentences though, with the mention of actually using the style, and the benefits of it, being held off until the second sentence. Seems kind of odd if the first part is meant to only apply while the style is active too.

Skylancer4 |

** spoiler omitted **
Relevant to this, I had believed that you only benefit from style feat effects while using the style. As others say, the feats are worded such that there are passive bonuses for merely having the feat, as it doesn't say anywhere that one must be using a style to gain all the benefits. HOWEVER, I believe the RAI are that you must be using the style to gain the benefits.
This seems clear as well, the first line in each feat grants a benefit. The following lines have qualifiers of 'while using this style' and would require you to use the swift action to activate the style to gain further benefit.
This is where the MoMS starts to shine, using Fuse Style they count as being in however many style stances as their level allows and have access to all the feats with those styles as prereqs at the same time instead of having to choose which single style they are using that round.
Darkwolf117 |

This seems clear as well, the first line in each feat grants a benefit. The following lines have qualifiers of 'while using this style' and would require you to use the swift action to activate the style to gain further benefit.
Now you got the right question :P
MoMS, I think, was just an incidental mention in the OP for how they began wondering about this.

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No question, the RAW suggests there are passive bonuses provided by the style feats. That was part of my contribution above.
However, I think its intended that the style be active for the feat's effects to be active. The style can be inactive, which suggests that the entire style feat could be inactive when the style is not used. As written, this is not the case. RAW seems clear, and lest a dev change how its written, I would not dispute passive bonuses of style feats. FAQ'ed because I want to know if this is the intent.

Atarlost |
It doesn't even make sense for some of the stuff to be style restricted, most obviously the ones that give extra uses of elemental fist and the ability to qualify abnormally for elemental fist with dragon ferocity.
The only way to interpret them that doesn't produce shifting per diems is that the "when using {style}" clause actually means something. Stuff after it is contingent on being in the style. Stuff before it or in a special block isn't.