Hey all, I'm currently running my first group through the Beginner Box, then some home adventures before starting Rise of the Runelords. Now, here's my question. Has anyone done a low magic game with RotRL? Casters won't be limited but the prevalence of magic items would be. No purchasing +5 flaming longswords in towns and what have you. Is this do able with that AP? Would it be wise to?
In the party we have 3 players, all new to pathfinder but two have experience with 3/3.5 in general. I just want them to really be excited when they find a magical weapon or armor (with a history!) and not just "Oh, well, we can sell that yeah?"
Thoughts?
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One thing to remember is that prewritten 3.5/PF modules assumes magical items as part of the player characters' power progression. For something like an AP based very much around magic (sin/virtue magic), you will end up needing to make a lot of adjustments to the creature encounters, especially those which have energy and/or magical resistances. RotRL assumes players will have access to plenty of magical items and spells.
Based on the pregen characters, the AP was originally tailored for the "standard" party (fighter, wizard/sorcerer, cleric, & rogue), so expect your players to be either very underpowered or very overpowered if you go the route of rare "super" magical items. The trouble you'll face will be the variety of enemies that are encountered. You may give the PCs a great magic item...but without the diversity of several lesser powered items, you may see the players struggling against enemies that have immunities to the more overpowered version you give them.
Also, keep in mind that healing and other "white magics" are assumed. Many parties in 3.5/PF can't survive without some supplemental healing magic items and potions. You should read the thread Treppa is playing in. Her character has cheated death based on healing potions, magic, and a nifty new magic wand their healer just received numerous times, and they're still in Sandpoint doing Book 1. Treppa can testify that there is just not enough healing without the magical supplments.
If you do decide to go the route of more rare but powerful magic items, just bear in mind that you may need to reduce the difficulty of some encounters; a "weakened template" as it were, may need to be applied to some of the enemies. You may also want to consider what the PCs will be facing up ahead and provide them with an added puzzle/encounter which grants them an "overcharge" of sin/virtue points or temporary blessing of the gods to help offset the problem of reduced power from fewer magical items. Also, you could have the magic items they do receive have more than one ability. This would make the artifacts more general and less specific.
E.g. The players would have found a flaming sword, a dagger of cold, and a bow of lightning arrows. Instead, you provide them the Triple Fang of Cerberus which is a longsword that can switch between the energy types but takes a move action, require the hero can speak, and she must pay 1 hp by allowing the metal to absorb blood from a cut the hero inflicts on herself.
Just be careful of always giving them the exact tool they need. They will start to expect the latest magic item is the key to the next battle. Limiting the magic items may require you to go through the AP (or at least the current book) and strategize where you are going to place these magic items and plan their abilities closely. It's not impossible but in a prewritten adventure that assumes the availability of such magical items, you may find it difficult to give the players the right balance and keep things interesting.
Another thought, you could consider keeping very low level magical items. The more utility magical items so to speak. But they run out, or drain and have to be replenished or just flat out discarded and new ones purchased. Then you can have some powerful ones show up here and there that don't drain. This would allow your players to have some utility on the fly but would encourage conservatism, but still let you give them the awesomegodkickingboot weapons and armors with the stories and the players will be thankful to have them.
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I would be very interested in seeing how you handle this. I will eventually be running the anniversary edition (first time I ran it was 3.5 version) and I want to limit the availability of magic items.
My plan is to award magic items as Thassilonian artifacts, such that magic items are not just available in "the magic shop".
At most, what might be available is a mastercrafted weapon or armor, kind of on the level of Masamune or Inigo Montoya's father, weapons so finely crafted that seemed magical.
EDIT: I may remove many of the magic items in the enemies possession, with the exception of the occasional Thassilonian gift for the servant of Big K.
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Your going about things the completely wrong way.
1.) I suggest looking at the rules in purchasing magic items in the Magic Items chapter. It is under the heading, "Purchasing Magic Items."
The base GP value of any item available in a metropolis is only 16k. (Low magic cuts that in half.) By the rules you'll never be able to just buy a 72k gold piece value sword on a whim unless someone specifically has one. Even things in the GP limit are only 75% available. Don't even think of letting them pawn off hundreds of thousands of gold in magic items either. The communities can't support that kind of economy. If your populating the world with infinity gold piece magic item exchange markets that's totally something of your own doing. I swear most GM's are blind to this section of the book.
2.) If you want your players to have memorable experiences with magic items then the only real important thing about them is that they can actually use them. Memorable = Useful I'd say about 75% of the time for most players. No one will care that the +1 longsword was the Duke Reginald Vertotho's favorite blade that fought in the Elf King Wars VII 560 years ago if no one in the party uses a longsword. Effectively your setting yourself up for a lot of wasted work creating histories for items if those items are absolutely useful to the PC's. Now not every loot pile should be custom made for the adventuring party to get maximum use out of, but you get my point I hope.
3.) Seriously try to get like another player. 3 into an adventure path is usually not a good idea. They're written for like 4-6 players.
Ouch Morgen your tongue doth scathe me!
That chapter is definitely a help and does put it more in to perspective, I'll give that a read through presently, thanks for that. Indeed giving description to the useful items would be the plan in that regard.
I know APs are for 4-6, I was thinking maybe having them leveled a bit higher than average might help but I'm very aware of the necessity of more players. I'm keeping my ear to the ground for additional players I might like to add but most of my truly amazing RP group have dispersed to the winds.
Like I said, still new to this so I haven't combed the book nearly as well I mean to. Still learnin!
Aeshuura, I was having a similar idea to that but having not run through the AP before or read it thoroughly just yet(only just got it) I wasn't sure if it was manageable.
I'm trying something similar in my Kingmaker game, which unfortunately just started last week so I won't be able to give feedback.
I have some notes scribbled out that essentially gives free stats to players along the lines of attack, stats, AC in various forms, etc. I can throw it all up in a google doc and link it to you if you want.
I'm at the end of RotRL with my second group running with magic items as normal, and I definitely feel like keeping them a part of this game might be important. The AP is designed to be high magic, there are more spellcasters in the first book of this AP than I think I fought in 3-4 books of Jade Regent. I mean, it's about an ancient super-magic culture that was run by wizards. So, take that into consideration.
Alternatively, you could have these magic items/weapons be the artifacts of this long lost age.
Even more alternatively, look into the Seven Swords of Sin in the PF book Artifacts and Legends. Super neat weapons.
Also, RotRL is kinda deadly. Give your players at least 1 level (maybe 2), maybe look into Mythic. or a GMPC that they rotate playing.
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Your going about things the completely wrong way.
1.) I suggest looking at the rules in purchasing magic items in the Magic Items chapter. It is under the heading, "Purchasing Magic Items."
The base GP value of any item available in a metropolis is only 16k. (Low magic cuts that in half.) By the rules you'll never be able to just buy a 72k gold piece value sword on a whim unless someone specifically has one. Even things in the GP limit are only 75% available. Don't even think of letting them pawn off hundreds of thousands of gold in magic items either. The communities can't support that kind of economy. If your populating the world with infinity gold piece magic item exchange markets that's totally something of your own doing. I swear most GM's are blind to this section of the book.
And Magnimar isn't even as big as a metropolis and it is the biggest community the PC's are really going to be able to get to during the AP (base value for Magnimar is only 12.8k, so can't even buy +4 stat items there, unless they show up on the random rolls). From 1-4th level, the PC's should be relatively contained by the base value of Sandpoint, which is capped at 1.3k, but there will be a period from 5-10th level where (in theory) they can purchase items more powerful than their level would indicate (keep in mind the rules assume that no single item a PC owns is worth more than 1/4 their total wealth on Table 12-4 on p. 399 of the Core Rulebook).
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Glad I could help out a bit then ODV. I'd hoped my words came off as firm and not scathing but if the point was gotten I'll chalk it up as a good thing.
Robert sums up what I was talking about very well in terms of the AP. Really not much for magic the PC's can just buy. +1 armour, shields, scrolls, potions, 1st level wands and the really limited use wondrous items. Maybe some dirt cheap rings. Even then only 3/4ths of the time.
Adventurers should get most of their gear adventuring after all. ;)
Yeah Morgen definitely was firm, not scathing but I joke. That chapter definitely helped out and having not run a game before I wasn't sure what to expect when it came to magical gear. Knowing how the shops work etc. has put it in to perspective as well. Doing a "low magic item" game, in how i meant it, is pretty much par for the course really.
And giving history's to the gear I know will be useful will make them even more special. Basically through flavor I can still give the impression of rarity and uniqueness, or mundane and commonness. While a ring of protection is technically magic, if I describe it in such a way that gets across that it is a more common form of magic item it should still make the sword with a history even more cool.
Thanks for the guidance guys!