Cavalier Beast Rider.
It can have as a mount anything it can ride, it upgrades mounts as it gets higher level...soooo it would start out riding a horse and graduate to something like hippogriff or griffon later.
The Ranger Horse Lord would do something similar.
Who do you think archer wouldnt work from the back of a a winged mount?
Ranger has more fighting styles than just the two in CRB now.
APG has the ranger fighting styles, there is weapon and shield and a two hander i believe.
flying is NOT meant by RAW to happen at level 1.
however a halfling on a direbat is the best way to do this.
you are worried about your mount getting too big at 7th level?
Simple, get a different mount. Instead of the direbat who will get too big now you are looking for an upgraded flying mount.
However, I'm not so sure "Large" is a real issue. Large for a mount is going to be the size of a horse. So hippogriff/griffon will be in this range of mont as well.
before you start saying oh he's big he can't go in dungeons, how useful is a dire bat fly a flight of good, in a dungeon? Me thinks a bat that size flying in a dungeon is going to hit a lot of walls, so is no more or less useful than a horse (or hippogriff) so the bat might get larger but where are you worried about "squeezing him"? you're not going to be flying with him the MAJORITY of the time due to that issue with doors and such. Its not a medium sized humming bird. (imagine what you would have to feed that thing?)
Bat would also make a really bad companion because It can't walk or run like a hippogriff, so it would be hobbling around most of the time.
If you actually follow the flight rules you need room to fly, so even at medium size, this mount isn't going to work indoors in most cases.
outdoors? as long as there wasn't too many trees and other stuff, what are you going to do when you are not riding it? Bats fly and perch, are you going to fly ahead of the party and hang on as it holds upside down to a big branch and leap frog around while traveling with them?
The dual mode of travel to a winged horse/quadraped type is really the optimum here.
So even if you get a dire bat at level 1, By RAW you arent going to get much out of this, unless you want to travel far, like back to the village for a change of socks! In the limited scope of most adventure encounters, it's not going to work.
My suggestion is if you are really bent of having a flying mount AT level 1, beast rider cavalier and halfling is the way to do that. You're saying the cavalier on paper is weak, compared to what?? The cavalier is MEANT to be mounted attacking with a lance, anything else in any other class only imitates that, a cavalier is a full BAB class, druid is not. I dont see how ranger gets any benefits over cavalier in this situation?
I could take the ranger hippogriff rider, but will lose the benefits of the ranger combat styles as neither two weapong fighting nor archery combine well with a lance and shield. Well, maybe. As I wrote that I thoguht of using a shield as an off hand weapon. I would have to check out the ranger class for specifics to see it works.
Mounted Combat style! - Maybe take Trick Riding at 2nd level, because you avoid the prereq of 9 ranks of Ride and get a second attack block using Mounted Combat.
Fighter (Dragoon) 1 level dip is always good for cavalry. Spell check, too.
1. Fighter (dragoon) - Mounted Combat & Skill Focus (Riding)
2. Ranger (hippogriff rider)
3. Ranger (hippogriff rider) - Ride-by Attack & Trick Riding
4. Ranger (hippogriff rider)
5. Ranger (hippogriff rider) - Boon Companion & Hippogriff @ 4th level
Levels 1-4, you ride horses. Level 5, he's flying cavalry.
With the Human bonus feat, you take power attack for more damage.
You have Heavy Armor Proficiency from fighter, so you could put Dex at 12 and plan to run around in full plate. You crank Strength.
Small cavalry riders will always dream of higher Strength.
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Another build that works (depending on level) is a Beastmaster Ranger with the Mounted Combat Style and a companion like the Giant Wasp (who works excellently as a mount for small characters up until effective druid level 7, at which point he's great for all builds).
Druid is another effective way to go, though you won't get the bonus combat feats the ranger does so you'll probably need to multi-class fighter or ranger and pick up the Boon Companion feat.
As an aside, if you want to play a small character with a medium flying mount that doesn't increase in size, you don't actually have to advance your mount to the next size category. If you read the animal companion entry under the druid, you will see that in place of taking the size increase you may apply a +2 bonus to your mounts DEX and CON scores instead.
Keep in mind, that you don't need iterative attacks quite as much.
I built this character in 3.5, as a fighter 2/paladin 8, on a celestial Pegasus. With power attack, spirited charge, and smite evil, enemies who were hit, died.
With vital strike, and a better smite evil feature, it's even better in pathfinder.
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Keep in mind, that you don't need iterative attacks quite as much.
I built this character in 3.5, as a fighter 2/paladin 8, on a celestial Pegasus. With power attack, spirited charge, and smite evil, enemies who were hit, died.
With vital strike, and a better smite evil feature, it's even better in pathfinder.
Yeah, I have a Greater Vital Striking Cavalier who uses a lance with the Spirited Charge feat and I actually prefer to keep a move action open for switching weapons or drawing potions. I never even bothered with Mounted Skirmisher.
I would like to introduce you to the 3rd party product, the super genius games guide to the dragon rider. Want a flying mount from level 1? Done. It even has rules for multiclassing with anything else that has a pet, so say you want some of the cavalier abilities to get the most out of a lance charge, well great news, you can do it. Also, you are riding a dragon, which is about as awesome as it can be.
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Be careful. Vital strike can not be combined with any charging or ride-by attacks.
You are wrong. Vital Strike is a Standard action which can not be used as part of a charge by an unmounted combatant because a charge is a special full round action. However, in mounted combat you and your mount each have distinct action pools, just like a druid with a bear animal companion has one set of actions for herself, and one for her bear. Your mount charges, and because of the rules for mounted combat, you gain the benefits of the charge. However, you still have your own distinct set of actions (Standard, Move, Swift) and therefore can make a Vital Strike from the back of a charging mount.
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Did I miss an errata or something, cause I'm pretty sure the Beast Master Cavalier archtype says he cannot choose a mount that has a Fly speed.
A beast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that has a fly speed (although the GM may allow mounts with a swim speed in certain environments).
Emphasis mine.
If there was lemme know so I can keep up to date!
Be careful. Vital strike can not be combined with any charging or ride-by attacks.You are wrong. Vital Strike is a Standard action which can not be used as part of a charge by an unmounted combatant. However, in mounted combat you and your mount each have distinct action pools. Your mount charges, and because of the rules for mounted combat, you gain the benefits of the charge. However, you still have your own distinct set of actions (Standard, Move, Swift) and therefor can make a Vital Strike from the back of a charging mount.
@Ssalarn. Please follow the link provided and read the FAQ. Here is the crucial sentence: "Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike."
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You are wrong. Vital Strike is a Standard action which can not be used as part of a charge by an unmounted combatant. However, in mounted combat you and your mount each have distinct action pools. Your mount charges, and because of the rules for mounted combat, you gain the benefits of the charge. However, you still have your own distinct set of actions (Standard, Move, Swift) and therefor can make a Vital Strike from the back of a charging mount. @Ssalarn. Please follow the link provided and read the FAQ. Here is the crucial sentence: "Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike."
You are the one who needs to read. I just explained this. It is the action economy, as referenced in the FAQ, that prevents these from working. It is a non-issue with mounted characters. Your inference that it impacts Ride-by attack is just that, an inference, not in any way supported by fact.
Your mount is charging, using it's full round action to do so. Because of the rules for mounted combat, you gain the benefits of that charge. You, separately, are using your standard action to Vital Strike.
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Reading the mounted combat style for rangers turned me on to Mounted Skirmisher feat which is how you get multiple attacks while moving. That is sweet. I don't think you could get the charge bonuses though, but you can't have everytying.
Thanks for all the input folks, this has truly helped.
SKR addresses this a bit in a FAQ I'll link in here. Only the first strike would qualify as charging (assuming your mount actually charged) all of your subsequent iterative attacks with Mounted Skirmisher would be resolved as normal attacks.
you're not going to be flying with him the MAJORITY of the time due to that issue with doors and such. Its not a medium sized humming bird.First, I'm thinking roc, and second, he pretty much is a humming bird.
Hover (Monster)
This creature can hover in place with ease and can kick up clouds of dust and debris.Prerequisite: Fly speed.
Benefit: A creature with this feat can halt its movement while flying, allowing it to hover without needing to make a Fly skill check.
If a creature of size Large or larger with this feat hovers within 20 feet of the ground in an area with lots of loose debris, the draft from its wings creates a hemispherical cloud with a radius of 60 feet. The winds generated can snuff torches, small campfires, exposed lanterns, and other small, open flames of non-magical origin. Clear vision within the cloud is limited to 10 feet. Creatures have concealment at 15 to 20 feet (20% miss chance). At 25 feet or more, creatures have total concealment (50% miss chance, and opponents cannot use sight to locate the creature).
Normal: Without this feat, a creature must make a Fly skill check to hover and the creature does not create a cloud of debris while hovering.
where are you worried about "squeezing him"?Down 5 foot passages, while over running 1 medium creature in a line of 3, pretty much constatnly. Currently I am playing a cleric with almost constant enlarge person and it comes up all the time. Well, a lot of the time.
If you read the animal companion entry under the druid, you will see that in place of taking the size increase you may apply a +2 bonus to your mounts DEX and CON scores instead.WOW! How did I miss that? Certainly a massive decrease in power, but certainly something to consider.
Im confused first you say ROC, then you say 5 foot passageways.
That's obviously not going to happen.
It totally looks like you are trying to go for tow different things on two different ends of the spectrum.
Did I miss an errata or something, cause I'm pretty sure the Beast Master Cavalier archtype says he cannot choose a mount that has a Fly speed.
A beast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that has a fly speed (although the GM may allow mounts with a swim speed in certain environments).Emphasis mine.
If there was lemme know so I can keep up to date!
It doesnt say that anywhere in my hardcover, which I bought only a few months ago... looks like it's print date was aug 2011.
Edit that also seems VERY odd. ranger can have flying mounts, druid can have fly mounts, but not cavaliers?
Why would that be?
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Did I miss an errata or something, cause I'm pretty sure It doesnt say that anywhere in my hardcover, which I bought only a few months ago... looks like it's print date was aug 2011.
Edit that also seems VERY odd. ranger can have flying mounts, druid can have fly mounts, but not cavaliers?
Why would that be?
That restriciton is listed in Paizo's official PRD under the Beast Rider as well...
I'm not sure but I'm guessing you expect the roc to be a gargantuan mount. As an animal companion, you start with a medium (baby) roc which grows to large at level 7. So as a large creature it would have to squeeze through 5' spaces.Im confused first you say ROC, then you say 5 foot passageways.
That's obviously not going to happen.
It totally looks like you are...
So you are assuming your GM is going to allow a level 1 player to have a baby ROC mount?
eh, i wouldn't count on that. you miiiiight get away with a giant bat, but a baby roc? At level 1?
It's pretty normal, and a core option, I would say it would be far more unusual for DMs to ban it.
It's pretty normal, and a core option, I would say it would be far more unusual for DMs to ban it.
Core options are listed in the CRB under animal companion, it says DMs may allow others. The bestiary gives some examples. that hardly makes it a core option like taking a domain instead of a pet.
And if it was so common by ban cavaliers from flying mounts?
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It's pretty normal, and a core option, I would say it would be far more unusual for DMs to ban it.Core options are listed in the CRB under animal companion, it says DMs may allow others. The bestiary gives some examples. that hardly makes it a core option like taking a domain instead of a pet.
And if it was so common by ban cavaliers from flying mounts?
Maybe they felt that the cavaliers class focus on mounted combat was just too potent when combo'd up with a flying mount? Ride-by attack for a cavalier on a flying mount with his double to-hit bonuses, the fact that his Banner ability would be even more potent under certain circumstances since he'll be easier to see in the air,things like that... I personally don't think it was necessary to restrict them to non-flying mounts, but I can see the argument both ways.
flying is equally more potent for a spell caster or an archer.
Which is why it's restricted and not an automatic option, only allowed by the DM. The selection of pets in the bestiary is discretionary and has to be run by the DM.
If, as a DM you are allowing the druid to fly and the ranger to fly, somehow the cavvy becomes more of a menace?
Edit: also in a campaign where you would see this, there would be much more flying than normal so expect tons of enemy fliers, so it's not this uber boon of the goblins are riding giant wasps and flying soldier ants.
In fact in a flying campaign youll also see a lot more FALLING.
so technically it's not a huge boon.
I want to be the only thing flying, and expect everything else to remain on the ground.... doesnt seem to make much sense.
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flying is equally more potent for a spell caster or an archer.
Which is why it's restricted and not an automatic option, only allowed by the DM. The selection of pets in the bestiary is discretionary and has to be run by the DM.If, as a DM you are allowing the druid to fly and the ranger to fly, somehow the cavvy becomes more of a menace?
There are standard option flying mounts in Ultimate Magic (see Giant Wasp) that can be taken right from first level, so it definitely is something kind of aimed at the cavalier, whatever the reasoning may be.
My up-to-date PDF of UC and the PRD also both say beastrider can't have a flying mount.
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I'd maybe consider giving up a couple more drudi levels to snag a few more fighter feats, and maybe shore your Roc up with the Boon Companion feat to keep him on point.
Too bad Rocs max at Large. Something about being a Lance-Wielding Gorilla on the back of a diving Roc is outstanding in my brain.
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Yarp, I have boon companion. I was actually running out of fighter feats to take, but I guess if I moved them up a few levels, I could still take some caster feats like extend and augment summoning. Do you see any feats I don't have that would help?
It also occurs to me I could be a little silly once my roc turns large at 7th level by useing beast shape to joust as a chimpanzee or orangutang to get the +2 to str. With spirited charge that would equate to 3 more points of damage, or 3d6+27 at 16th level. Can someone in the know tell me what sort of damage a straight fighter is pumping out at that level?
Push Boon Companion out a couple levels and consider snagging Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization Lance (the bonus from Weapon Specialization will be pretty decent with Spirited Charge). That'll also help a bit with the lowered BAB from your druid levels.
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Since Druids can't use metal shields anyways, you could always take your fighter levels in the Two-Handed Fighter archetype. The third level of fighter would give you Overhand Chop, so your single hit Charge attacks and Spirited Charge attacks would be multiplying double your STR bonus instead of just STR or STRx1.5.
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Since Druids can't use metal shields anyways, you could always take your fighter levels in the Two-Handed Fighter archetype. The third level of fighter would give you Overhand Chop, so your single hit Charge attacks and Spirited Charge attacks would be multiplying double your STR bonus instead of just STR or STRx1.5.I don't think that works as a lance is a one handed weapon that can be used two handed while not mounted. (PS - Druids can use wooden shields.)
You've got it backwards. A Lance is a two handed weapon which you may wield one-handed while mounted. It works just fine.
Digging up a still-fresh threadgrave to ask: how to get a non-flying mount (in this case an Axe Beak) into the air at low/mid levels (say, 5+) with relative reliability? Will I have to feed it potions of fly? For extra restrictions, this'll be for PFS. Thanks.
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For a PFS character, I was thinking of playing a Gnome Druid 1/Barbarian X. I feel like Barbarian (Mounted Fury archetype, of course) makes up for the low strength of gnomes, and I think the Bestial Mount feature of the barbarian should keep the animal companion improving even if it's not one called out by name.
Besides, then I get to be Batgnome. How awesome is that?
Haha, I happened into a boon for the axebeak and I want to put together a GM credit cavalier or samurai to use it. The image in my head is my old Blood Elf Paladin from WoW, but I don't want to be useless when I inevitably run into flying opponents. I'm starting to think that potions might be the way to go since I'll only have to use them... when I have to use them!
Haha, I happened into a boon for the axebeak and I want to put together a GM credit cavalier or samurai to use it. The image in my head is my old Blood Elf Paladin from WoW, but I don't want to be useless when I inevitably run into flying opponents. I'm starting to think that potions might be the way to go since I'll only have to use them... when I have to use them!
Sipping Jacket for you Axebeak?