Trying to work out an old idea. Please tell me if I have this right.
A staff with wish (2 charges) and limited wish (1 charge) only costs 832,600gp on the market (766,300gp to craft), meaning a 20th-level character could afford it.
An arcane sorcerer with such a staff, could cast said spells by substituting 3 levels of spell slots per charge (six 1st-level spells for wish, one 3rd-level spell for limited wish, one 6th-level spell for wish, etc.).
Breakdown
Highest Level Spell: Wish, 9 x 17 x 400 / 2 + 25,000 x 50 = 655,600gp
Secondary Spell: Limited Wish, 7 x 17 x 300 + 1,500 x 50 = 110,700gp
655,600 + 110,700 = 766,300gp to craft
Does everything check out? Does this really allow a player to effectively have infinite wishes that don't require the material component cost?
I imagine many GMs might not allow this, even at such high levels, but a player could still potentially make a staff of FREE unlimited limited wishes at a substantially lower cost at lower levels.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m0ym&page=1?Limited-WishSpell-Staff-abuse
Pretty sure you can find what you are looking for in the last thread you last made about this.
As James said they aren't rules, only guidelines :)
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Lol, well, RD i think understands that many GM's wouldn't allow the item. It's probably safe to say that the vast majority wouldn't. I took another look at the rules for charging and as long as the player has the capability, i.e. spell of Limited Wish memorized and the material component for that spell, it would effectively allow a relatively inexpensive way to cast Wish.
I liken the idea to what was mentioned for Benchmark spells in UM. If you are trying to create a spell that is better than Wish, you are trying to play God. Having said that, lol, if you are trying to create a magic item that effectively allows the unlimited use of Wish, then the player is still trying to play God.
If someone wants to make a new thread that's fine. It happens all the time, and links to old threads happen all the time as well. I remembered reading it (the post about the farmer and efreet I found particularly amusing). I'm glad for the re-read. However, I didn't even remember that RD made the previous thread until I looked at it, and my plan was going to link it from the beginning anyway.
My comment prehaps did contain a small amount of snark but only because RD seems to like causing a stir. However I did not consider it enough to be offensive and regardless I'm not looking for a flame war so you can call off the mod 'call to arms'.
What kind of game could it ever apppear in? You could never be assumed to start with such a staff with a pre-gen character, as no character level 1-20 would have sufficient wealth to have so much tied up in a single item. Conceivably in a game with a character who had leveled up the hard way, said character could have that much money, but only if the GM completely ignored the guidelines laid down. Further, the item creation time is measured in years. What games involving team play take those sorts of breaks? Aside from Ars Magica, of course, in which magic spells this openended do not exist.
If such an item existed, it would just be bait for the sorts of things that normally ignore mortal baubles. Yeah, the staff wielder can cast Wish 5 times a day (assuming it is fully charged) and that would ROCK against normal high level foes, but that's not nearly enough to save his/her bacon against the sorts of CR 45-50 opponents the staff would attract.
The creation of something like this is an interesting thought experiment, no more.
Ok where are the rules for making a Unique Staff?
All I found is you can only make a specific staff.
I thought the recharge rules are a spell slot of the highest level spell in the staff?
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Ok where are the rules for making a Unique Staff?
All I found is you can only make a specific staff.
I thought the recharge rules are a spell slot of the highest level spell in the staff?
Yep, you're right, it does require the caster to forego one spell slot at the highest level spell in the staff. That means he would have to use Wish to recharge it then?
Nope just sacrifice a Level 9 Spell Slot to recharge one charge.
Or Use the Capstone of the Arcane Bloodline.
@sunbeam: The Link was pointing out that a similar question had been answered he wasn't being snarky or anything. You are the one being rude.
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Nope just sacrifice a Level 9 Spell Slot to recharge one charge.
Or Use the Capstone of the Arcane Bloodline.
@sunbeam: The Link was pointing out that a similar question had been answered he wasn't being snarky or anything. You are the one being rude.
Wow, ok, so it still ends up being what i mentioned earlier, that the player is trying to play God.
@Ravingdork: How did you get the Pricing?
@RD - The rules break down when you go silly powerful. There is no reasonable way of adjudicating this item or even finding a correct price in terms of gold pieces.
If one of my players insisted on building this staff I'd pull him aside and ask him what exactly he wants out of a role-playing game. If he continued on with this mad path to ultimate power I'd steer him towards becoming a GM.
I agree that steering them towards being a GM would be best. But I am pretty sure RD is a GM.
Really I would say this would be a Major Artifact rather than a basic Magic Item.
But I am pretty sure RD is a GM.
Well in that case we'd have to know more about the campaign before we can really provide guidance to how this (very nonstandard) item should be adjudicated.
@RD - Can you give us the details on the campaign that you're running? How would does this item fit in?
The price tag exceeding the "soft ceiling" of ~200k gp already classifies the example staff as at least a minor artifact. If it is an "epic" item, that price tag increases by a multiplier of 10, putting it entirely out of the reach of any Pathfinder PC with "book" gear.
The price tag exceeding the "soft ceiling" of ~200k gp already classifies the example staff as at least a minor artifact. If it is an "epic" item, that price tag increases by a multiplier of 10, putting it entirely out of the reach of any Pathfinder PC with "book" gear.
Were are you guys getting these Numbers?
The price tag exceeding the "soft ceiling" of ~200k gp already classifies the example staff as at least a minor artifact. If it is an "epic" item, that price tag increases by a multiplier of 10, putting it entirely out of the reach of any Pathfinder PC with "book" gear.Were are you guys getting these Numbers?
Original Post. Epic Rules for 3e on the x10.
It hardly seems worth the bother anyway.
- You need to spend a large portion of your "net worth" on that one staff, leaving you otherwise "under-equipped" and thus vulnerable.
- All that stick will do, is grant cheap wishes. Which seems cool, but really: how many wishes does anyone have/want/need?
- Speaking of the number of wishes: how many do you need to make to get "your money's worth" anyway?
- You'll be "the guy with a stick that grants wishes". That alone will make you a very visible target.
- Shouldn't 20th level Sorcerers be sparring with Gods, rather than sit and home and play with their staff?
All I can think of is the Wish to cast Fabricate thing.
I would probably make this a Major Artifact that only exists in a Single Dungeon that only exists in a single dungeon in the entire Multiverse.
It can't be used with the Arcane Sorcerer's Capstone or any similar ability. If it ever reaches 0 Charges or you ever die (even if you come back to life) it disappears back to the Dungeon and you can never retrieve it and it is locked from ever being used by your hands again.
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@Ravingdork: How did you get the Pricing?
Traditional staff pricing rules in the Core Rulebook. I forgot to mention in my OP that wish uses 2 charges, and limited wish 1 charge.
Can you give us the details on the campaign that you're running? How would does this item fit in?
I'm currently running Skull and Shackles, module 2. This item would not fit in.
@Ravingdork: How did you get the Pricing?Traditional staff pricing rules in the Core Rulebook. I forgot to mention in my OP that wish uses 2 charges, and limited wish 1 charge.
Does it have equations for Staff Pricing?
@Humphrey_Boggard: I was saying he might be thinking of this as a Artifact or such.
Does it have equations for Staff Pricing?
Yes, check under the Magic Item chapter under "magic item creation." Making unique staves, to me at least, is as normal as making scrolls of individual spells.
Holy Crap on a Cracker... Ravingdork. You are my hero!
I have read the Magic Item Creation Rules numerous times and totally missed those equations.
I might have to talk to you about helping me figure those out.
Also what about a Staff that requires 5 Charges for Limited Wish and 10 Charges for Wish?
Are they releasing "clear and cut rules" to make magic items? I thought I read somewhere that Paizo was going to release a book so that the rules for making magic items would be very clear and concise.
Seems when I do a search for crafting I find a lot of posts and no continuity between them. Sure would be nice to have clear rules that work for all item creation.
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Hmm...
Maybe make it an Intelligent Artifact that only allows their powers to be used by the one who earns their favor.
P.S.: Kthulhu language. Please.
Can you give us the details on the campaign that you're running? How would this item fit in?I'm currently running Skull and Shackles, module 2. This item would not fit in.
You can fit it in and indeed you must, because the item (modulo a few changes) is awesome.
First I'd say that it's some sort of artifact (perhaps refashioned as a Crystal Skull - very pirate-y) that doesn't have a set cost in gold pieces (creation required numerous contracts with fell powers and nations would go to war to obtain it). I'd put a terrible cost on using the item: the soul of an innocent, freely given (per use). The item should be legendary like Davy Jones' locker and impossible or even self-contradictory to obtain and difficult to hold on to once you have it. Perhaps the possessor of the skull is haunted by the ghosts of the innocents whose souls have been taken.
Now you've got an artifact that is interesting, can be fit in to any level of campaign, has limits on how much even a very powerful villain could use it, and has built in safe guards to prevent the players from abusing it or even holding on to it too long.
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I'm assuming that the wizard or sorcerer who makes this magic wishing stick has to go to the bathroom sometime. That's likely the moment when the pricey stick he propped in the corner for just a minute suddenly disappears.
Meanwhile, somewhere else in the world:
FISHERMAN: So can I wish for infinite wishes?
GENIE: Unfortunately, worthy one, no.
FISHERMAN: Can I wish for an item that gives me infinite wishes? And I don't mean becoming the genie of the lamp, because I've heard of that trick. Just an item that gives me infinite wishes.
GENIE: There is such an item, but it belongs to a powerful wizard or sorcerer, and it never leaves his grasp.
FISHERMAN: Not even when he uses the bathroom?
GENIE: Well....
FISHERMAN: Perfect! I wish that the moment he sets it down, you steal it for me and that he never finds it!
GENIE: That is two wishes, but consider it done. (Hands fisherman the staff.)
FISHERMAN: So how do you make it work?
GENIE: You must be a powerful wizard or sorcerer....
Actually, I think this is just part of his creative process; whether or not the rules get "broken," that's just an added bonus.
Frankly, I see a lot of his stuff that as dungeonmaster I can just say, "no, this is just utter drek; I as omnipotent overlord of the game disallow it;" so that's about how bad any of it bothers me.
I.E. the wishstaff......I'd do something to somebody making a wishstaff; I think.....Nyarlathotep would like a wishstaff, so he'd just come take the damn thing, if it hurt my reality too much. Or, I might go with it; who knows. Maybe gods are just dudez who have taken 50+ wishstaffs from wizards over the milennia. Maybe reality is just a video game where gods farm for wishstaffs, then steal them from "high powered" wizards.
So, anyway, if this stuff bothers you, you can just close his thread and save your blood pressure. I'm just kinda reading along to see where the RAW disallow is, if it's there.
Calling people horrible things and just general douchery just kinda fills the thread up with useless drek.