The feat snapshot allows me to make an aoo with my bow and the feat combat patrol lets me increase the range I threaten with my aoos by 5ft per +5 to my BAB I have would these two stack? For example if I had snapshot and a +6BAB would my threated range be 10ft while using combat patrol? What if I had greater snapshot which makes my base for AOOs 15ft and a +11 BAB? would that let me make AOOs with my bow up to 25ft out without ever having to move since I'm using a ranged weapon?
I like the way you think:)
After reading through both abilities, it seems that they would work together just as you say. I can imagine playing an archer who, at level 10, covers an entire typical battlefield. If any enemy casts a spell, fires a ranged weapon, moves more than 5', stands up from prone. . . POW!
It's a neat concept. The problem is it takes such a huge investment of feats. By level 10 you'll be throwing like 5 arrows per round (depending class). So in order to even break even, 5 guys have to provoke. That doesn't seem terribly reliable.I like the way you think:)
After reading through both abilities, it seems that they would work together just as you say. I can imagine playing an archer who, at level 10, covers an entire typical battlefield. If any enemy casts a spell, fires a ranged weapon, moves more than 5', stands up from prone. . . POW!
Not without tweaking, no.
How about you get an ally to throw down difficult terrain spells, like Entangle, Stonecall or Shifting Sands? Don't allow your enemies 5-foot steps.
Then you just need to find a way to make them provoke for acting normally in a round -- standing there and Full Attacking an ally.
Depends how good you are at getting your attacks to hit. If your fourth attack hits consistently, then maybe you don't need the attacks that are at full-bonus but conditional.
Depends how good you are at getting your attacks to hit. If your fourth attack hits consistently, then maybe you don't need the attacks that are at full-bonus but conditional.I don't follow. If you're doing combat patrol, you're not attacking at all unless someone provokes.
Exactly, so each of these attacks are at your full attack bonus, as opposed to making a full attack action with your attack bonus dropping by 5 after every shot.
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Exactly, so each of these attacks are at your full attack bonus, as opposed to making a full attack action with your attack bonus dropping by 5 after every shot.Depends how good you are at getting your attacks to hit. If your fourth attack hits consistently, then maybe you don't need the attacks that are at full-bonus but conditional.I don't follow. If you're doing combat patrol, you're not attacking at all unless someone provokes.
But none of those AoO's are going to be affected by Manyshot - which is a huge damage dealer for an Archer.
Personally I'd rather take a my full attack using Manyshot & Deadly Aim almost all of the time. Only in specific conditions would it be better to forgo a full attack and set-up a Combat Patrol. And I would wager that in the time it takes to get the battlefield manipulated in such a way as to warrant this you could have just killed the Foe with a couple full-attack sequences using Manyshot... Especially if you have a lot of static damage bonuses that would apply to each of those arrows (deadly aim, favoured enemy, etc).
Exactly, so each of these attacks are at your full attack bonus, as opposed to making a full attack action with your attack bonus dropping by 5 after every shot.Except that as a warrior you don't take penalties until your 4th arrow (well, you take -2 for rapid shot).
It's really not even close. You sacrifice tons of sustained damage to occasionally do slightly less damage than you would do if you just did a full attack, and extremely rarely get off a couple extra attacks (but that each do less damage).
It's a silly niche build that might be fun for a one-off high level game, but it would be atrocious to actually level up.
I don't disagree at all, I was just trying to clarify Troubleshooter's point. It's a fun idea, but far from optimal.
I'm a little lost here, but how do you draw arrows when its not your turn? I thought talking was the only free action that could be done on someone elses turn.
I'm a little lost here, but how do you draw arrows when its not your turn? I thought talking was the only free action that could be done on someone elses turn.In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn.A free action, not the free action.
Right. But as far as I've seen, speaking is the only free action with the clause that it can be performed when its not your turn. Drawing ammunition doesn't seem to have that clause.
Unless your saying all free actions can be done out of turn, which would make the exception for speaking redundant.
As far as you've seen where? There is no rule specifying free actions are exclusive to the player's turn that I can find.Right. But as far as I've seen, speaking is the only free action with the clause that it can be performed when its not your turn. Drawing ammunition doesn't seem to have that clause.
Unless your saying all free actions can be done out of turn, which would make the exception for speaking redundant.
I base it on the line in the core rules that says "Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn."
Since it says turn and not round they are limited like standard and move actions. which is why immediate and speaking make the exception clear.
Could you provide me a rule saying that all free actions can be used any time in a round?
I'm a little lost here, but how do you draw arrows when its not your turn? I thought talking was the only free action that could be done on someone elses turn.They really should errata the feat to allow it.
Do a search of these forums, you'll find that its come up before,
James
I'll do that, thanks.
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1g1#v5748eaic9oku
"As long as you can reload your weapon with a free action you can reload your weapon as part of the ranged attack attack of opportunity you are making with the Snap Shot feat."
Thank you, that helps.
By definition, free actions take little to no effort. Immediate actions take more effort, and explicitly say they can be done out of turn, "unlike a swift action", not unlike a free action.
By definition:
Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
Emphasis mine. By definition you cannot take a free action if you are not also taking another action of some kind. In most cases you can only take another action of some kind on your turn. The reason immediate action references swift action is because a immediate action is a special kind of swift action that can be taken even when it is not your turn. It even consumes your swift action for your coming turn.
So if free actions take less effort and time than an immediate, the implication is they can be done out of turn as well.
This is incorrect. When you can take actions is in no way based upon the amount of time said actions take. There is no implication that actions that take 'no time' can be done any time you want. If that were the case I could argue that I can take swift actions any time I want since they take the same amount of time as immediate actions - and immediate actions can be taken at any time.
The fact that speaking as a free action, and reloading while using the snap shot feat explicitly have to spell out that you can do the free action part when it is not your turn reinforces the idea that generally free actions can only be taken on your turn.
3.5 called this out specifically in a blog
You cannot use a free action during another creature's turn. Speaking is an exception...
Except that they specifically note an action that does take time, and can be done out of turn.
You are correct up to this point. This is the whole immediate action shtick.
Therefore, if an action takes no time, it follows that it can be performed out of turn.
The rules have no comment on this second half. They don't say a single thing one way or another. This is not supported by the rules. The specific places that call out certain free actions as not being tied to your turn strongly imply (but yes it is only an implication) that the general case is you can't take free actions outside of your turn.
Can a person use a standard action to take a swift action instead? Not according to the rules, though some would house rule it to allow it. How about a move to swift? Nope. Standard to move? Yes, but it is explicitly allowed by the rules - but it doesn't say anything about 'This is allowed because the move action takes less time than the standard action'.
What other factor is there?
Working game mechanics comes to mind. Mind you not life like simulation mechanics.
Reloading using snap shot does not need to be explicitly spelled out, and isn't. It was issued in a faq because people (like yourself) get confused.
Your presumption that I would have been confused without the FAQ clarification is misplaced.
Are you playing 3.5? I'm not. Nor do I care what blogs say. I go by the rules.
I'm playing PF, which was based on 3.5. Rules, FAQs, blogs etc from 3.5 are at times instructive on intent of how PF works. They don't always mesh - but usually places they don't mesh are spelled out in the PF rules, FAQ's, errata, etc.
However, the FAQ answer is still instructive of when you are allowed to take free actions normally. If free actions can normally be taken at any time they could have said in the FAQ, 'It's a free action, of course you can reload to make your AoO' - or more likely the FAQ would have stated 'no clarification needed'.
Here is another PF FAQ answer.
Summoner: Can I use life link when it's not my turn, I'm paralyzed, or I otherwise can't take actions?
Although the ability is listed as a free action, it's something a summoner should be able to do at any time the eidolon would take enough damage to send it back to its home plane, even if it's not his turn......Update: APG page 56, in the Life Link description, paragraph 1, sentence 2, delete "as a free action"
Emphasis mine. Why does the update part say "as a free action" needs to be deleted if free actions can be done out of turn?