|
| 9 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have a couple of questions about the bard's Versatile Performance class ability.
1. Why isn't it already in the FAQ? Seriously, I just searched the site for the words "Versatile Performance", and it came back with over 2000 threads. The first dozen or so that I looked at were people trying to figure out how it worked, and it seems there are probably dozens, if not hundreds more just like it. That would seem to be the dictionary definition of "frequently asked".
As for my questions right now, I understand the base concept of VP.
As an example, using VP with Perform: Oratory means that the bard no longer uses the Diplomacy or Sense Motive skills at all. If he wants to try and figure out if someone is lying to him, he rolls d20 + the modifier from his Perform skill, which is calculated using his charisma bonus, skill ranks in P:O, +3 class bonus if P:O is trained, and anything else like a Circlet of Persuasion or Skill Focus (P:O) that would improve his P:O skill. But he's not actually performing, he's just using the Perform skill bonus. Even though Sense Motive is normally wisdom based, this means his wisdom modifier and skill ranks in the skill never come into play, and Skill Focus (SM) would be a wasted feat.
So I understand the basics.
My questions:
2. What about things other than the stat, skill ranks, and class bonus that would modify the replaced skill? In the case of Sense Motive, what if he had a trait that makes him better at Sense Motive? Does that go to waste, because it only modifies the SM skill bonus, which is no longer used? I'm also looking at the gnome Gift of Tongues racial trait that gives bonuses to Diplomacy and Bluff, which would seem to go away if a gnome bard uses Versatile Performance to replace those two skills. Or situational bonuses (or penalties) to using particular skills, like the monk's High Jump bonus to jumping, when Perform: Dance is being substituted for Acrobatics, or the -4 penalty to intimidate someone bigger than yourself when using Perform: Comedy instead of Intimidate? It seems that the answer here is that those bonuses go to waste, since they don't modify the Perform skill, but I just want to be sure, and also find out if it applies the same to penalties.
3. What if the skill being replaced by VP is already replacing another skill? For instance, the Taunt feat lets small PCs use bluff instead of intimidate to demoralize enemies, and avoid the -4 penalty on intimidating someone of larger size. What if a gnome or halfling bard with Taunt then uses Perform: Act instead of Bluff? Can he use Perform: Act to demoralize people, and still avoid the -4 penalty for being smaller than the target?
|
Since the best any of us can do is give you an opinion, here is mine:
While you can use Versatile Performance to achieve another skill, you are not making the check in exactly the same way. In your oratory example, your ability to change the attitudes of others is done strictly through the power of your words. Whereas Diplomacy encompasses many things including speaking, etiquette, and body language. Because of this, your +x to Diplomacy wouldn't affect a Perform(Oratory) check to Diplomacize because you affect the subject in different (though similar) ways.
The same would go for Perform(Dance) versus Acrobatics to Jump. The best example is probably a Ballet Dancer versus a High Jumper. Can they both jump rather high? Sure. May they even use similar muscles. I assume yes. But they took different paths to achieve their jumping prowess. While a specially trained ballet dancer (Bard with VP) may be able to achieve the same result as an Olympic long jumper (say a Ranger with Acrobatics) when jumping a pit (what a silly example), they still took different paths in their career to be good at jumping.
My judgment is that you make each skill check only with the modifiers for that skill. So you don't get diplomacy bonuses to perform checks. You also wouldn't take size penalties to perform as that penalty only applies to a different skill.
2. What about things other than the stat, skill ranks, and class bonus that would modify the replaced skill? In the case of Sense Motive, what if he had a trait that makes him better at Sense Motive?
Traits would not work, because they add to the skill.
Or situational bonuses (or penalties) to using particular skills, like the monk's High Jump bonus to jumping,
High Jump specifically adds to Acrobatics checks, so that does not help.
or the -4 penalty to intimidate someone bigger than yourself when using Perform: Comedy instead of Intimidate?
This also specifically applies to the Intimidate skill, so no.
Circumstantial bonuses that affect the action, however, would apply. For example, if the Demoralize action applied a -4 penalty based on sizes, rather than Intimidate applying that penalty, it would apply to Versatile Performance.
3. What if the skill being replaced by VP is already replacing another skill? For instance, the Taunt feat lets small PCs use bluff instead of intimidate to demoralize enemies, and avoid the -4 penalty on intimidating someone of larger size. What if a gnome or halfling bard with Taunt then uses Perform: Act instead of Bluff? Can he use Perform: Act to demoralize people, and still avoid the -4 penalty for being smaller than the target?
Yes, you could use Acting to demoralize, and you'd avoid the -4 regardless, because that only applies to the Intimidate skill.
|
|
I guess it's the part about circumstantial bonuses affecting the action that gets me. Defining which are bonuses to the skill and which are bonuses to a specific action can be vague sometimes.
Going back to the intimidate example:
You also gain a +4 bonus on Intimidate checks if you are larger than your target and a –4 penalty on Intimidate checks if you are smaller than your target.
If you have the Persuasive feat, you get a bonus on Intimidate checks (see Feats).
A half-orc gets a +2 bonus on Intimidate checks.
Is the check also the action? If so, then all of these bonuses and penalties apply. But I'm pretty sure that the Persuasive feat is a bonus to the skill, which doesn't apply when a different skill is used to perform (no pun intended) the same action.
So does this mean bards can use Versatile Performance to intimidate anyone, regardless of size, without taking the -4 penalty if the target is larger than the bard? That would kinda render the Taunt feat unnecessary for bards, which is probably good for me personally, since I was considering making a bard with that feat, and this would mean I can skip the feat altogether.
I'd like to get a ruling on this from Paizo staff before I try doing this in PFS play, though.
Is the check also the action?
Intimidate is the skill. Demoralize is the action. You get a penalty on Intimidate checks, so it only applies to things you actually use Intimidate with. If the penalty were to Demoralize attempts, then it would affect your Versatile Performance as well.
So does this mean bards can use Versatile Performance to intimidate anyone, regardless of size, without taking the -4 penalty if the target is larger than the bard?
Yes.
That would kinda render the Taunt feat unnecessary for bards
Correct.
I'd like to get a ruling on this from Paizo staff before I try doing this in PFS play, though.
I think that is unlikely, but best of luck nonetheless.
