Hello all,
I have read multiple other threads in the forums regarding the possibility of playing a versatile Monk/Sorcerer/DD - (all hail Oterisk :D) - but I would like to ask for specific advice regarding this one.
My stats are already defined (see below-without racial adjustments), and my role should be the frontline combatant, so how would you suggest I could go about building this one?
Str:16
Dex:11
Int:11
Wis:17
Con:14
Cha:10
Some particular doubts in my mind:
- Since I am playing the part of the frontliner, I should probably start with monk, right? Should I shoot for the crane chain to assist my survivability here?
- Is the "tanking" role at all possible on this concept?
- The empyreal seems a no-brainer but should I take crossblooded for draconic heritage?
- I am undecided regarding Monk archetypes... MomS should be the most adequate one, would you agree?
- This will be played on an AP, but it may extend beyond that - to those more knowlegeable I ask - does the build scale well into higher levels?
- Should I actually ignore the monk, and go for a fighter/sorecerer/DD build?
Thanks for any possible feedback on this one.
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A few extra notes:
- Start with 1 level of Unarmed Fighter to get Crane Style, followed up by the 2 levels of Monk for Crane Style and Crane Riposte all as bonus feats. I would also consider picking up Snake Style to mix with Crane Style.
- Strictly speaking, Crossblooded doesn't mix with Empyreal (Wildblooded) because they are 2 archetypes that both modify the sorcerer's bloodline ability. Personally, I think that's dumb, and it will really be up to you and your GM, but it's technically not RAW. If you're unable to mix crossblooded with empyreal you're going to have a bad time since you have to take the Draconic bloodline to qualify for Dragon Disciple.
My current character for a Skull and Shackles game is a Invulnerable Rager Urban Barbarian 2/Ninja 2/Crossblooded Dragon/Abyssal Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple X, with Lesser Fiend Totem Rage Power and Pressure Points Ninja Trick. I'm having a lot of fun with it so far (though it tends to be "get in melee and full attack" quite a bit). Eventually I'll be adding Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses, plus picking up pounce from a polymorph effect (I'm a wordcaster). Obviously, not exactly what you were going after, but it is a melee based Dragon Disciple that I would like to think isn't exactly "ordinary".
human monk moms sohei-2 levels
H-dodge
1- crane style
M1-Crane Wing
M2-Crane Riposte
you can wear light armor until your ac mod is greater than the armor bonuses
you will need empyreal xblooded draconic
if you can't move your wis score to cha would recommend not doing a sorc build a straight monk/moms or a cleric build would be a better tank imho
Thank you for the feedback DemoNight - If I understand correctly, MomS forfeits Flurry of Blows right? How big of a loss is this in your opinion?
My main reasoning for the sorcerer is twofold, defensive buffs, offensive buffs in the form of touch attacks, in a pinch he can drop a fireball, a ranged attack, etc., and the DD is just... well... a monster :D
I would use empyrean to apply Wis instead of Charisma as the sorc main stat.
If you want to go moms get dragon style with crane works great for improving your damage on natural attack characters. Quick question why sor? Do you want more bloodline abilities or better spells. If you're looking for buffs and a unarmed Dd may I suggest 2 levels of natural attack ranger 2 levels of MoMS and then 1 level of summoner. Summoner's get great buff spells although your sidelong will suffer. Also since you're talking about a front line DD build if you are looking at the sor spell list for something more than buffs then gi sohei in your Moms and pick up EK after you hit 6th level on sor
The reasoning for Sor goes along the lines of what I commented on the post above, but also because I think the combination complements the Monk quite well, allowing to compensate both offensively and defensively as needed.
A few extra notes:
- Start with 1 level of Unarmed Fighter to get Crane Style, followed up by the 2 levels of Monk for Crane Style and Crane Riposte all as bonus feats. I would also consider picking up Snake Style to mix with Crane Style.
- Strictly speaking, Crossblooded doesn't mix with Empyreal (Wildblooded) because they are 2 archetypes that both modify the sorcerer's bloodline ability. Personally, I think that's dumb, and it will really be up to you and your GM, but it's technically not RAW. If you're unable to mix crossblooded with empyreal you're going to have a bad time since you have to take the Draconic bloodline to qualify for Dragon Disciple.My current character for a Skull and Shackles game is a Invulnerable Rager Urban Barbarian 2/Ninja 2/Crossblooded Dragon/Abyssal Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple X, with Lesser Fiend Totem Rage Power and Pressure Points Ninja Trick. I'm having a lot of fun with it so far (though it tends to be "get in melee and full attack" quite a bit). Eventually I'll be adding Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses, plus picking up pounce from a polymorph effect (I'm a wordcaster). Obviously, not exactly what you were going after, but it is a melee based Dragon Disciple that I would like to think isn't exactly "ordinary".
Thanks for the feedback Raisse.
Why start as Fighter and not simply monk off the bat?
I had the same doubt with Crossblooded and Wildblooded, though what is funny is that Herolab forces me to take both of them and then tells me all is fine :D
Your character concept for Skull and Shackles looks amazing :D The only thing is I want to build mine around being able to hold the frontline.
On another topic, after taking a long look through the forums, it doesn't seem that there is much love for the cleric/monk combinations, which I find odd since the main stat matches out perfectly...
Hello again.
I have kinda settled on a Monk(MomS)2/Unarmed Fighter2/Sorc1/DD_
But the thing that got me wondering is... How am I going to be able to surpass monster DR when it starts coming into play...
Ideas?
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Didn't see the question before.
Taking the 1 level of fighter first gives you 2 things:
- More HP because you start with a d10 instead of a d8 hit die.
- The ability to pick up the full Crane Style, Crane Wing, Crane Riposte by level 3. Unarmed Fighter gives you a style feat a bonus feat, but doesn't specify that you're allowed to take a feat in a style chain. It's open to interpretation whether or not it would be allowed to take Crane Riposte as your unarmed fighter bonus feat, but the monk of many styles explicitly allows it.
As far as holding the front line, I've done decently well so far (with HP, instead of AC, though my AC isn't as bad as many barbarians). The only issue I ran into was getting torn apart by a certain tiny creature that does ability damage...
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 10 Cha mean you wouldn't be able to cast any spells?
You mentioned the Empyreal bloodline before, but Empyreal Sorcerers cannot be Dragon Disciples.
I have also read something about, since going DD, improving on claw attacks by going ranger (with natural weapon style), and thought about being a oni-spawn tiefling with the claws option, but I really do not understand how and which feats to use to improve upon this.
Weapon Focus?
Feral Combat training?
Also, how would it stack with the iterative attacks? Or not stack?
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 10 Cha mean you wouldn't be able to cast any spells?
You mentioned the Empyreal bloodline before, but Empyreal Sorcerers cannot be Dragon Disciples.
I haven't yet found immediate evidence that the two bloodlines cannot be crossed - I am aware that it is not proof at all but Herolab just lets me go ahead with it :/
Well, I'm sorry I didn't come across this thread earlier.
A Monk build DD is pretty cool, but just like with regular Monks, DR is a problem. You basically have two options.
1. Carry a backup weapon. This isn't a terrible idea. I like the long spear for reach. Get an +1 Adamantine Holy (or other alignment) Long Spear for 21,000 gold. It bypasses just about every DR except for bludgeoning or slashing. It's also a two handed weapon, so it works good for your strength and you might even get some attacks of opportunity out of the deal.
2. Use Unarmed Bonuses. AoMF of +5 should do the trick for you as well, The price was Halved in a recent Paizo Blog (Dec 4) so it isn't as bad.
Crane style is nice, but it isn't everything when it comes to tanking, so don't neglect your AC. Get Shield and Mage Armor up when you need them and Don't forget your NA bonuses too. I would also drop your Wis to 14, put your racial bonus in Str and bump your Int and Dex to 12. Grab a Longspear to drop once they close on you for melee.
About the crossblooded/wildblooded thing, ask your GM. He/She is the only one who can make the decisions about these things. If they say no, then a different build might be useful.
Thank you for all the feedback guys, and thank you Oterisk for dropping your advice - it comes highly recommended :D
One question that has been bugging me - if I take the Tiefling racial option to have claws, would that replace the ranger aspect of the beast? And how EXACTLY do I get my claws to do more damage? I am lost regarding the feat progression...
Hello all,
I have read multiple other threads in the forums regarding the possibility of playing a versatile Monk/Sorcerer/DD - (all hail Oterisk :D) - but I would like to ask for specific advice regarding this one.
My stats are already defined (see below-without racial adjustments), and my role should be the frontline combatant, so how would you suggest I could go about building this one?
Str:16
Dex:11
Int:11
Wis:17
Con:14
Cha:10Some particular doubts in my mind:
- Since I am playing the part of the frontliner, I should probably start with monk, right? Should I shoot for the crane chain to assist my survivability here?
- Is the "tanking" role at all possible on this concept?
- The empyreal seems a no-brainer but should I take crossblooded for draconic heritage?
- I am undecided regarding Monk archetypes... MomS should be the most adequate one, would you agree?
- This will be played on an AP, but it may extend beyond that - to those more knowlegeable I ask - does the build scale well into higher levels?
- Should I actually ignore the monk, and go for a fighter/sorecerer/DD build?
Thanks for any possible feedback on this one.
Human MomS 4
Trait: Suspicious
1. Imp. Unarmed Strikes, Stunning Fist, Alertness, Crane Style, Skill Focus (Sense Motive)
2. Crane Wing, Evasion
3. Snake Style, Fast Movement, Maneuver Training, Still Mind
4. +1 Dodge, Ki Pool, Slow Fall, Imp. Unarmed Damage
Sense Motive = Rank +4, Class Skill +3, SF +3, Trait +1, Alertness +2, Snake Style +2 = +15 +D20 Roll for a single AC or Touch AC attack.
With Crane Wing and Snake Style you can avoid two attacks a round. For the rest of the time you can spend a swift action to add +4 dodge bonus through Ki. You can add other classes after. But for the tank I'd get Antagonize and a few other feats like Mobility so that you can move around and provoke enemy attacks of opportunity to allow allies to move around more safely.
Well, I'm sorry I didn't come across this thread earlier.
A Monk build DD is pretty cool, but just like with regular Monks, DR is a problem. You basically have two options.
1. Carry a backup weapon. This isn't a terrible idea. I like the long spear for reach. Get an +1 Adamantine Holy (or other alignment) Long Spear for 21,000 gold. It bypasses just about every DR except for bludgeoning or slashing. It's also a two handed weapon, so it works good for your strength and you might even get some attacks of opportunity out of the deal.
2. Use Unarmed Bonuses. AoMF of +5 should do the trick for you as well, The price was Halved in a recent Paizo Blog (Dec 4) so it isn't as bad.
Crane style is nice, but it isn't everything when it comes to tanking, so don't neglect your AC. Get Shield and Mage Armor up when you need them and Don't forget your NA bonuses too. I would also drop your Wis to 14, put your racial bonus in Str and bump your Int and Dex to 12. Grab a Longspear to drop once they close on you for melee.
About the crossblooded/wildblooded thing, ask your GM. He/She is the only one who can make the decisions about these things. If they say no, then a different build might be useful.
1.I had not thought about the backup weapon, seems like a great idea. I had tried adding the knuckles to Herolab, but for some reason they were not showing me the monk unarmed damage.
I would gladly modify some stats, like bumping Int and Dex but they are fixed, apart from racial modifiers - it is part of the method we requested the DM to use. I will definitely use the longspear as you suggested :D
Regarding the tiefling claws, and overall claw damage progression, any ideas?
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Well, I'm sorry I didn't come across this thread earlier.
A Monk build DD is pretty cool, but just like with regular Monks, DR is a problem. You basically have two options.
1. Carry a backup weapon. This isn't a terrible idea. I like the long spear for reach. Get an +1 Adamantine Holy (or other alignment) Long Spear for 21,000 gold. It bypasses just about every DR except for bludgeoning or slashing. It's also a two handed weapon, so it works good for your strength and you might even get some attacks of opportunity out of the deal.
2. Use Unarmed Bonuses. AoMF of +5 should do the trick for you as well, The price was Halved in a recent Paizo Blog (Dec 4) so it isn't as bad.
Crane style is nice, but it isn't everything when it comes to tanking, so don't neglect your AC. Get Shield and Mage Armor up when you need them and Don't forget your NA bonuses too. I would also drop your Wis to 14, put your racial bonus in Str and bump your Int and Dex to 12. Grab a Longspear to drop once they close on you for melee.
About the crossblooded/wildblooded thing, ask your GM. He/She is the only one who can make the decisions about these things. If they say no, then a different build might be useful.
1.I had not thought about the backup weapon, seems like a great idea. I had tried adding the knuckles to Herolab, but for some reason they were not showing me the monk unarmed damage.
I would gladly modify some stats, like bumping Int and Dex but they are fixed, apart from racial modifiers - it is part of the method we requested the DM to use. I will definitely use the longspear as you suggested :D
Regarding the tiefling claws, and overall claw damage progression, any ideas?
they weren't showing you the monk unarmed damage because they no longer do that, they only ever do the 1d3.