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Does agile maneuvers add to your CMD as well as your CMB ?
altering your calculation to 10 + Bab + Dex + Dex ? or does your CMD remain unaffected?
Fury's Fall (cheliax faction guide) allows you to add your Dex modifier to your CMB for trip attacks. If you had Agile Maneuvers and Fury's fall would you be adding your dex twice for trip maneuvers or is that stacking?
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Does agile maneuvers add to your CMD as well as your CMB ?
Agile Maneuvers (Combat): "You add your Dexterity bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus (see Combat) instead of your Strength bonus."
Nope.
Fury's Fall (cheliax faction guide) allows you to add your Dex modifier to your CMB for trip attacks. If you had Agile Maneuvers and Fury's fall would you be adding your dex twice for trip maneuvers or is that stacking?
There was an answer to something similar to this, I'll try to find it. I think it basically said no, you never add your same stat twice.
-edit- Found some JJ posts, if that helps any.
Modifiers from ability scores aren't actually bonuses, strictly speaking. If they are, they're untyped bonuses—which means they stack with all other bonuses except themselves. Thus, if you have multiple things that say "Add your Dex modifier to this roll," you only get to add your Dex modifier once.
(...)
If you have Fury's Fall and Weapon Finesse, you've basically got two feats with overlapping effects. You don't get to add your Dexterity modifier more than once to CMB if it's already been included due to any other effect. SO! If you have Weapon Finesse... you'll only want to look at taking Fury's Fall if you're expecting to be using weapons you can't modifier via Weapon Finess to make trip attacks. Otherwise, Fury's Fall is a waste for you.
If you adjust your CMB and/or CMD with an ability modifier... that's that. You can't do that more than once. Something like the Weapon Finesse/Fury's Fall combo is a pretty specific corner case, but they do not stack together.
Think of it this way. Your DEX modifier is how dexterous you are. Simply picking two feats that have overlapping effects doesn't miraculously make you twice as dexterous... it simply means your ability to apply that Dex modifier is increased beyond the norm, and that there is some overlap that "wastes" some of that potential by doubling up when doubling up doesn't count.
1) Just the CMB, as per the wording on the feat. While it is common to define the CMD formula to include CMB, it is just short-hand and not actually true. The feat does not affect your CMD.
2) Yes, you would add dex twice in this case. It isn't the same thing as stacking bonuses from the same source because it is using your stats, not giving your stats a bonus. Now if both said "Add a feat bonus to your CMB equal to your Dex Bonus", then it wouldn't stack because the bonus type would be 'feat bonus'.
EDIT: I should just post "I dont know, let me summon Grick" on all rules questions, heh. Or at least wait until Grick shows up and then post the same thing and pretend he ninja'ed me. Or just claim to be Grick.
Hmm that's important - I'll add it to the X to Y doc. Do you have a link to JJ posts?
Do you have a link to JJ posts?
The link is his name and title in the quote citation.
Ah thanks.
now James Jacobs - how official is this? It isn't a faq - but just his personal opinion on how things should work or?
now James Jacobs - how official is this? It isn't a faq - but just his personal opinion on how things should work or?
Those links are all from the big "Ask JJ anything" thread. It's pretty much just how he would run something at his table. It's not official like the FAQ or errata, and if he contradicted a ruling by SKR or JB, then it's probably more of a house rule. There are people who disregard everything JJ posts because he's not the 'rules guy.'
Your mileage may vary, but I figure that James probably runs a really good game, and I value his thoughts on the matter.
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gonna FAQ this. its good to have JJs opinion on it. but since it came up in a PFS game, i'd like a solid rules as written call for it.
I was very close to choosing Fury's Fall as my next feat choice on my character who already has Agile Manuevers as well.
This is incredibly important for the FAQ to say yay or nay, because it would require a rebuild to fix this (and is that legal in this kind of circumstance?) since it would make Fury's Fall completely useless (ie. it would never becoming useful anywhere else).
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Fury fall would still be usefull - if you have a positive str AND dex bonus.
Agile maneuvers if you have a negative str modifier.
And weapon finesse if you just want to trip, sunder and disarm - and have 10 or less in str.