I'm interested.
I am..curious..
What do you want to publish?
I might be interested, what are you looking for?
What kind of products do you envision publishing? Adventures? Monsters? Races? Classes? Feats? Spells? Magic Items and other equipment? Alternate rule sets? Campaigns?
I'm interested - or at least curious.
I am interested. I've had a few things published already, but between crippling depression and medical problems, I have not produced as much content as I would like. I could try again, if you're interested in receiving my work.
A Gazeteer (sp?) might work. Some basic info on some locations, some local races, and a mini-adventure.
Umm...I'm interested but I don't know that I'm qualified. The only thing I've got going for me is motivation. I've never been published, never even contributed; just always wanted to to something. Anyway I've been haunting this thread and thought I'd just put it out there. Worst you could say is no (or some derivation) right?
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Tell me more about this amazing work for free opportunity.
I have to be honest; I'm a little intrigued, but hesitant.
So GM_Artifex...what would be next? Like Morius I've GM'd since, well... 82 I guess, from the red box/AD&D thru now with MANY systems in between and have almost always homebrewed, but I've never published, so I don't really know the first thing about what happens now.
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Like others, I am also interested, but not sure I'm qualified. I've written but never managed to published myself.
As for suggestions on payment, do what other people are doing. Start up a Kickstarter. Think in your head about how much it's likely to cost for the project to work, then ask for that amount. Of course you'll need to come up with incentives (free copy of the PDF, discount on first actual book, name published in starter handbook, etc).
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OK, first a bit of advice:
1) review all the information you can re: the Pathfinder Compatibility License and the OGL. There are several threads on the boards which cover this and if you are going to publish gaming material under these two licenses you do need a solid grasp on them. If you don't you could face anything from C&D notifications to lawsuits. Not wanting to scare you, but it is a part of what you are wanting to do ... which leads to:
2) consult a lawyer. Seriously. It will cost you some cash, but it is best to know all the legal requirements of running a business and having them look over the OGL/PCL so you are clear on what your responsibilities are on that front, what your legal requirements are for operating a business (on a local, state AND federal level ... taxes suck, but they are a fact of life and business).
3) expand your skill sets. Self publishing is tough and can be expensive. The more you can do yourself, the better off you will be and the less capital you will need to expend (though your time expenditure will most likely go up by doing more yourself). Which leads to:
4) asking folks to give a hand is fine, but don't expect to get many takers when it's a for-profit endeavor with little to no payout for them. Exposure is fine, but it doesn't pay the bills and exposure on a new company's first product is a lot different than exposure in an established company's products (but exposure still doesn't pay the bills). There are exceptions (there are always exceptions), but rarely, if ever, are these exceptions for-profit endeavors. Which brings us to:
5) put together a budget. If you can put together a Kickstarter and have it reach its goal, great, but have a plan if it doesn't hit its goal. If you need to get a part time gig to raise capital, that's fine, commendable even. It's also going to result in you having more options when it comes to things outside your skill set. Having dipped my toes into the 3PP waters, I have to tell you that we would not have gotten that first installment out without an art budget. For that product, we wrote the content in house, edited in house and also (thankfully) got the help from one of the guys in our gaming group, created the graphic elements in house and did the layout in house. Having skill sets that covered a wide range of what we needed reduced our out of pocket expenses dramatically, but neither of us can draw. I may be able to doodle, but Hugo Solis blows anything I could put together out of the water. And this leads to my last bit of advice:
6) if you don't make money at it, don't be shocked. For our first product, we have not yet made back our art budget. But we kind of expected that. Gaming supplements are a niche market and it was the first product from a new company. Has it made us decide to stop putting stuff out? Nope. We've got our second installment in a final editing pass right now and hope to have it out within the month. Will we make back our art budget on this one? Maybe, maybe not. Considering this is a secondary (or tertiary) business for both of the folks involved at the moment, that's not really a major factor. Don't get me wrong, putting out a product with the equivalent response Way of the Wicked by Fire Mountain Games / Gary McBride got would be freaking AWESOME, but it is the exception, not the rule (though it is the goal we are shooting for).
So, enough of that stuff. I seriously wish you the best of luck in getting your material refined and published Cory. When you get to the layout stage of the process and if you need help, touch base with me and we'll see what we can work out if you are interested.
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As for suggestions on payment, do what other people are doing. Start up a Kickstarter. Think in your head about how much it's likely to cost for the project to work, then ask for that amount. Of course you'll need to come up with incentives (free copy of the PDF, discount on first actual book, name published in starter handbook, etc).
This is bass-ackwards.
First figure out your costs. An author. An editor. Line art. Cover art. Trade dress. A layout artist. How and what costs are if you want to print. Whether or not you're going to be an LLC. When you have that all sorted, then you look at a kickstarter, if you feel you have a bang-up idea and an interested audience. You'll need previews, potentially a video, some idea of stretch goals-- just in case. Don't go nuts. You do a "here's the PDF" option and a "here's the PDF/Softcover" option, and maybe a "Here's the PDF/Hardcover" option if you're going with a big enough book to do it. Don't overpromise for a first venture. You need to prove to the world you can do what you say you can do, and if you've never done this before, stick to a book.
Then you'd consider kickstarting. Then, if your campaign succeeds...
Depending on how hard-charging your author is, and how big a book you're wanting to do, it's going to be months of design and development, where you'll want to have art being delivered concurrently. Then you'll hunt for an editor and get on a layout artist's schedule. And then, six to eight (or more) months later, a book. Sure, you might shorten this period if your author is a wordcrunching beast, and your crackerjack editor hammers at it like John Henry, and your artist is completely on time and fast, and your layout artist is equally talented and punctual.
If all those moving parts come into alignment, congratulations, you've beaten the odds. Bask in the glow of a task well done.
-Ben.
That is a cool homebrew. I like the twist that the king forced his own daughter to slay him. I do have some questions though:
What kind of technology have the gnomes ACTUALLY produced? They have instantaneous communications...mobile phones, telegraph, nautaloid cybernetics that link brainwaves strapped to the outsides of their skulls? You describe the FBI...are we in D20 modern, steampunk, pure-on fantasy or a mixture of all 3?
What kind of material would you like as a sample? I have a few generic homebrew towns I'm using that I wouldn't mind sharing. One in particular, the City of Arabellyn, might be fun. It's known as the city of mages and is one of the only "cosmopolitan" spots on the edge of a fey-haunted landscape of old, boreal woods scattered across rugged hills for hundreds of miles both down the coast and inland.
Finally I just have to say this is very exciting. If you are at all interested in infusing tech into the fantasy framework of your lands I can't speak highly enough of the avatar on these boards known as the Adamantine Dragon. If you can get his attention and PM him, he's an actual physicist in real life and has put in decades of time cultivating a logical fusion of these forces.
Well anyway, thanks and luck.
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Listen to Ben (Terraleon)and Dain (Zylphryx). Both are speaking from some level of experience.
The whole idea of someone wanting to publish something, but with only a nebulous idea of what, how and how to pay for it all is not exactly inspiring. It makes me think it will all end in tears. But it doesn't have to.
So to add a few more pieces of free advice to the good advice aforementioned...
You need a slightly better plan of attack before asking for help. If you want professional help, you must present yourself professionally, and even if your help is going to be people just wanting to break into the business, you want them to act professionally from the get go.
Which, again, is to say, have a business plan/model/what-have-you before opening up the doors to strangers. Peruse some of the other threads on this subforum and look at some of the questions others asked and the advice they received. Follow some of the 3pp on Facebook or Google+ and see what they are doing and how. You might even consider doing some work for one of them to get a better feel for the business side of the hobby (and it is business - even if the profits pretty slim).
For your first book, my suggestion would be to fully write up your 32 pages on your own (for 32 pages, with approximately 4 pages of art here and there you are looking at about 21,000 words) and then advertise for an editor and offer a percent of sales. Art is going to be your primary expense up front and even start up artists should get paid something per piece (you'll likely want to find a good, unknown artist capable of doing b/w sketches for $20-$30 a pop). You are also going to either need to do lay-out yourself, or else find someone with the know-how and again offer them a percentage of sales (net, not gross). My advice however is to do it yourself and get a 1st hand understanding of what is involved (simple PDFs can be laid out on most word-processors, if you want print its likely going to be a bit more complex). Get a good understanding of the OGL, what it is, what it is not, and how to use it.
Then, after your first piece is up (or before), decide what your second piece is going to be and start writing. If you decide to have others write for you, offer .01 cents a word ($200 dollars for 20,000 words) or a percentage of sales (choose this option, especially at first). For more established authors, you'll want to offer a bit more.
Thanks Wicht and everyone else for the inspiration. I'm pushing 40 and at some point I made publishing seem so irrationally impossibe and overwhelming in my mind that I figured it was impossible. You folks have deflated it a bit, at least framed it with a bit of a process to follow which makes it at least a goal to shoot for. I didn't realize this forum would lead to a crash course in business.
GM: I've PM'd you, hopefully collaboration is a potential. I have a 32 page submission of my own to churn out.
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For the record, I haven't done any publishing of my own, just freelance writing/design and project development. But I've tried to pay attention to the other aspects of the business on the off chance I ever get more time and less sense. :)
Dude just...thanks. Creating anything for any kind of commercial use or viability just always seemed so huge. My wife and some friends in the past have all encouraged me, said I might have a little talent, and people on these boards seem to like some of my ideas, but that's all they have ever been is just random strings of ideas; solutions to game-posed questions.
Just framing it the way you did: follow a process, get something together and THEN just get it out there...I don't know, it just made it more like an actual job than a daydream. I mean we all do stuff like this for our jobs all the time - write reports, take notes for school, create presentations or at least GIVE presentations. When you say it so matter-of-factly and equate the act with just a big version of what we're already doing all the time...
Anyway sorry for the long-winded and awkward compliment. Thanks.
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Then you'd consider kickstarting. Then, if your campaign succeeds...
Agreed on everything you said terraleon. One other thing to be aware of for a KS is that you need to sell the KS just like you would a product. Just putting a KS up without pushing it via social media, forums, friends/family, your mailing list (if you have one), etc. will pretty well doom it to failure. I cannot count the number of KSs that I have found after they have missed their goal only to think "wow, this could have been pretty cool ...".
Kickstarter can pay off, but you need a solid concept, to prove the concept is solid to potential backers, and work your butt off through out the push to try to make your goal (assuming you set a realistic goal).
We have not gone down this path as yet, but if Iron Hills Games decides to delve into physical print runs, it will be on the list of options we will be running with.
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A kickstarter is a campaign for a reason. You are hoofing it. Posting it. Working it *every day* to make numbers. This is why, ideally, you have material before you ever start, so that you have a steady stream of manuscript fragments, concept art, cover sketches, cartography bits, etc, to show off and get people *more* excited. You are going to not one, not two, not three, but ideally 9 different avenues to show what you're doing, leveraging your creators' audiences (do they have audiences? because it matters), Kickstarter's community, your own personal communities, and reaching out to find people who will like your work but just don't know it yet. You need to be sharp, witty, inspiring, and more awesome than the next project, because without a greenlight, you're flying solo.
It is a knock down, drag out, war of you against the dark expanse of anonymity which is the rest of the internet. You need to show them how you are a bright, shiny spark of a star worth investing some hard-earned lucre into for the delayed blast promise of a few hours of fun and not the gambler's remorse of a failed project-- don't you forget, every backer has a couple of those rotters on their history that makes their mouse hesitate before clicking. And on top of it all, you need to know where to find all the secret niches your audience lurks. To paraphrase, first place gets more work. Second place is fired, at least until the next attempt.
-Ben.
Dotting this myself. GM_Artifex, I have sent you a PM.
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Hi Cody,
Some helpful numbers for you when you start your company (note: As I'm writing this, I feel like I should add a note up here saying "I'm not trying to scare you off" :D ):
-The average book has about 1 piece of artwork per 5 pages for 20+ page books or 1 piece per 3 for smaller books.
-Keep in mind that asking someone to dedicate time to a project generally requires payment. Many people are not willing to work for free or for a % cut of royalties. Sometimes it requires an investment of your own money. Before you go off investing anything, read this thread: paizo.com/threads/rzs2nx44?How-to-Get-Your-Money-Back-from-Sinister#10
(That's what happens if you are not careful.)
-Edit. Edit edit edit. We generally have 4 people go over our work multiple times and we STILL get errors.
-Keep everything legal. I'm not talking "Grey area" or "kind of legal" or "TECHNICALLY it's legal", I mean 100% above the board beyond reproach legal. Buy yourself a license of WHATEVER you are using. Don't use photoshop if it's pirated (or your schools or a friends) or accept anything else from anyone who doesn't have everything legally. It's a REALLY quick way to get blacklisted in any industry. I ALWAYS ask people "do you have the licenses for ALL the programs you are using?". If they even HINT at not having it- ignore them.
-Incorporate. Form an LLC or an S-Corp if you haven't. It's not that expensive and you will thank yourself later. I used these guys: https://www.incorporate.com/ They are awesome. Never easier. This puts you beyond any sort of liability and allows you to gain access to all sorts of awesome things. (You are not considered a business if you don't do this)
-Make contracts. Get familiar with NDAs and Independent Contractor documents. (I can help you the first time if you want, but learn it yourself. It's a skill you will NEED.) Just saying you are working with someone doesn't mean squat. If they jip you or do something you don't like and you don't have a contract or any sort of signed paper work, you have no one to blame but yourself.
-Make a schedule. Give people FIRM deadlines. ESPECIALLY in this industry people will not meet deadlines. Check in as often as possible with them (I generally do 2-3 times per week per person). Talk with them. See where they are. Make sure they are meeting your deadline. That way you can adjust your deadline BEFORE it comes down to the wire. I use a google doc that I share with everyone for this.
-Watch your scope. If you plan for 32 pages, stick to 32 pages. Be ready to cut material if it goes above. It's a hard thing to do but be ready for it. I generally give a few page wiggle room (30-33 or even 35 for example) but letting a product swell anything more then a few pages is a good sign that you have scope creep going on. (This also helps you plan your art budget)
A good producer (or whoever is leading the product development) can plan our a product and stick to the plan the entire way through. This cuts down on errors in the book, extraneous content, overspending, miscommunicates, and delays. Always underestimate yourself & your team (not in a bad way). It's easier to produce a smaller product and add a little at the end then aim for the moon and end up falling WAY short (we started with a few 5 to 10 page products).
-Find sales venues before you sell your product. OneBookshelfPublishing (DriveThruRPG) is a good one to get started with. Paizo.com's staff (Liz Courts) is awesome as well. I can't begin to tell you how helpful Paizo is. They are an awesome group and the 3pp industry is home to a lot of great people. You might want to conciser Indy Press Revolution after a release or two (because they ask for a sample of prior work).
-Little Red would sell a 32 page book (like you campaign guide is slated to be) for between $6 & $7. (I compiled a pricing guide based on about 60+ data points from major publishers on DriveThru & Paizo) The general rule of thumb is the higher the page range, the lower the price per page you can charge. (Example: An 8 page book might be like 25 cents per page while a 70 page book might only be 14)
Good luck man! If you need any help just shoot me an email! (ScottGladstein@LittleRedGoblinGames.com)
-Scott Gladstein
Producer
Little Red Goblin Games LLC
You've gotten some great advice from folks here.
Like others, I would suggest you have more of a plan (your building a company, I presume, not doing just a one-off and done, right?) and budget before entering into this venue. Additionally, to cut expenses, you should likely write your first few products to see how they will do, and you should learn to do much of the work yourself. Additionally, find people who are doing what you want to do and ask them questions--take Scott up on his offer! That will make your journey to publisher a lot easier.
There are a lot of moving parts to putting a book together! Believe me. I'm still finishing up on a foray (not my first) into self-publishing with the Rogue Mage RPG books I did with Faith Hunter through a kickstarter. One book is out, and the other is not quite finished. Delays have been killer.
Anyway, best of luck.
