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Ok, drawing inspiration from Ultimate Equipment's Kits my co-GM & I have decided to create a generic Adventurers' Kit that we can give to everyone for free. It will also be added to NPCs to represent their basic gear.
So I am asking:
What do you think is necessary?
What would be a good price for it?
What other kits do you think could be useful?
Well, this varies based on class. While you certainly can make a free kit covering the basics for all classes (camping gear such as tents, ropes, flint, compass, weather specific clothes if you start in a very hot or cold area, etc), others will have essential tools that you may or may not view as free. Many casting classes actually provide good examples. A wizard will need a spell book and spell components (the spell component pouch just assumes that it has about 5 gp worth of components). An alchemist would need an alchemist's kit. A cleric would need a holy symbol.
There are also non-essential tools that make the performance of a class's key skills easier, but are not as essential in the beginning. Rogues will often appreciate thieve's tools and a disguise kit, for example. These are very expensive though, so you might just let them buy their own once they get a level or two.
So overall, it might just be best to include basic camping gear and let them use their starting gold for the rest (that is why it is there). Maybe give a free knife, since they are good general purpose tools. After that, you will just find people swearing behind giving them things like a 10 foot pole and various other random items that are only convenient when they only exist as a written slot on a character sheet where you can easily ignore it.
Include a sling in it. It's zero GP and zero encumbrance. It has better range than any thrown weapon or offensive cantrip, can use ammunition scavenged off the ground, and everybody except a wizard or commoner is proficient with it.
The first means there are no downsides to carrying it, for anyone. The second means it's potentially useful weapon for anyone who doesn't carry a better ranged weapon, or who might run out of ammo for their better ranged weapon, or who might have their better ranged weapon damaged or stolen. Which is to say, potentially any adventurer.
10% seems a rough idea for the discount.
Problem with kits:
I can build myself a great starting kit, but then so can everyone else. Make a bunch of kits that are ideal for anyone in any situation, and that covers all their needs... and you may as well just hand out an extra 10% starting gold.
tool kits would be a good place to look
Ultimate Equipment has Class Kits for every class.
I am looking at something that includes something everyone could use.
Something I can include that has the basic gear everyone needs.
Say:
-Dagger
-Sling w/ Bullets(10)
-Backpack, Common
-Bedroll
-Pouch, Belt
-Flint & Steel
-Mess Kit
-Rope, Hempen
-Soap
-Torches(10)
-Trail Rations(5 days)
-Waterskin
I am also building a Kit that includes the things that a Party would probably buy as a group instead of individually. Like a Cooking Kit, Survival Kit etc.
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We are making these do to the World & Story set-up.
Though we are thinking of making it just the class kits.
IIRC the Fighter's Kit is generally a good standard adventurer kit. Some of the specialist kits like the dungeoneering kit or the pathfinder's kit could be good.
For me personally, my ideal starting equipment would be
Backpack 2 gp 2 lbs
Bedroll 1 sp 5 lbs
Belt pouch 1 gp .5 lbs
Crowbar 2 gp 5 lbs
Dagger 2 gp 1 lb
Flint and steel 1 gp 0 lbs
Folding pole 2 sp 10 lbs
Grooming kit 1 gp 2 lbs
Hooded Lantern 7 gp 2 lbs
Mess kit 2 sp 1 gp
Mirror 10 gp .5 lbs
Rope 1 gp 10 lbs
Oilx5 5 sp 5 lbs
Waterskin 1 gp 4 lbs
Its total weight is 47 lbs, though (not reduced for "careful packing"), meaning it wouldn't be good for low Str adventurers to carry around. (Effective cost is 29 FYI). Pieces could be also be dropped -- folding pole is 10 lbs, as is rope which you might forgo if everyone else has some.
I didn't include food because in different games GMs didn't track food consumption or the party hunted or the party was provided food elsewhere, etc. etc. That's also why I struggle with liking the kits in UE--they're a good start but I don't like that it comes with food (depending on what the needs of the campaign are) or that they have so many torches (I prefer a different light source--if I want fire, I'd rather have a lantern and oil which can be used as a splash weapon in a pinch, and otherwise if I don't want to carry fire, I'm probably a spellcasting class and I'll just use light or dancing lights), or an iron pot (since most of the kits also have a mess kit, which comes with its own bowl/small pot).
@DeathQuaker:
Ours we are having them either track Rations or they can hunt/forage. Rations are quick but cost Gold. Hunting is cheap but takes time.
I actually just changed the Torches to Lantern and Oil.
Mind explaining your reasons for the items?
So for your kit would a cost of 25gp be reasonable?
It is the campaign is based on them being part of an Organization and the fact that they are starting with minimum Gold. 100 GP or maximum for your class which ever is lowest.
This is mainly just so they have the basics and to give us an even easier time with NPCs and such.
They actually are going to have to break free of a Gaol first. With help from a member of the Organization they end up joining. They have to join in order to get out of the Gaol.
This is a reason why they have such low Starting Gold.
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@DeathQuaker:
Ours we are having them either track Rations or they can hunt/forage. Rations are quick but cost Gold. Hunting is cheap but takes time.
Fair enough! Obviously if you know it's needed then including it is a good idea. :)
Mind explaining your reasons for the items?
Sure. And one thing up front is I am anticipating a fairly typical low level campaign with some dungeon crawling, so different anticipation can lead to different items needed.
Backpack: Standard storage, obviously
Bedroll: Thing to sleep on is nice, you can also hide things and roll things up in a bedroll, or along with some assembled framework can be a makeshift stretcher. Alternately or additionally you could have a blanket which serves a similar purpose and you can use as a makeshift sack if needed or to throw over someone's head in a Dirty Trick maneuver, etc.
Belt pouch More storage, useful especially if you need to drop your backpack but take any essentials with you like potions.
Crowbar The non-thieves' lockpick. :) When someone's failing that disable device check, can be a good way to bypass things especially if you've got a strong character. Makes a good improvised weapon. Useful for other tool needs as well.
Dagger Good lightweight backup weapon, can be thrown if no other ranged weapons are at hand.
Flint and steel Firestarter
Folding pole This is a folding 10 foot pole--easy to carry and very useful. Good to find pit traps, poke at corpses to make sure they are not zombies, tie a string to for a makeshift fishing rod, Poke into murky pools to help test the depth, use as a measuring stick (the folding part would help with that as well), use as a lever (assuming the folding bits lock), and it does your taxes. Okay, maybe not the tax part, but you might be able to drive away the tax man with it.
Grooming kit I like the flavor of having one, plus you can assume you have soap (useful for cleaning off stuff or marking things). Actually you could also assume there's a small mirror in it and leave off the mirror off the list separately, which would make it 10 gp cheaper. Other implements could come in handy.
Hooded Lantern I like the hooded lantern because you can control the direction of the light and hide the light in a pinch if you need to (say if you don't want your light source giving away your position). If you have a character who can cast light they can cast it inside the lantern for a good source of light, which can then be hooded for the reasons noted above.
Mess kit In addition to the camping flavor, this assumes you have a cup and small pot which may come in handy for other things, as well as a cooking knife which may make a good improvised weapon if you need it, or of course just to cut things.
Mirror Good for seeing around corners, signaling for help, and making sure your hair's not out of place before you meet the empress.
Rope Should be fairly obvious. :)
Oilx5 As noted before, and I'm glad it was convincing--in addition to being fuel for your lantern, it can be spread on the ground or used as a splash weapon in a pinch. This is especially handy if you encounter swarms, which can't be hurt by normal weapons, but can be a common low level enemy. Pour it on the ground and light it, and they can't cross that square, or throw it if you need distance. While you can attack with a torch as an improvised weapon to deal fire damage, you can't get range. There is a chance of course that oil won't light, and alchemist's fire thus is better if you've got it, but it has its uses.
Waterskin To hold your requisite beverages, and you can refill it at that cool healing fountain you found.
One thing is -- some of the useful tools, you could give one to a different party member. So one person gets the crowbar, one gets the rope, one gets the pole, one gets a hammer and pitons, or whatever.
So for your kit would a cost of 25gp be reasonable?
Yeah, I think that's fine as a package cost.
Dagger is an eating utensil. No one should ever be without a knife. That is a rule i live by
Isn't an actual dagger usually up to a foot long? Or at least much longer than your usual eating knife. Hell, I've got a military bayonet style knife I wouldn't eat with, and that's smaller (although I might use it to hack up meat if it's all I had).
I assume a knife you can eat with is in your mess kit. I would not eat with a dagger.
Dagger is an eating utensil. No one should ever be without a knife. That is a rule i live by
I carry 2, one to cut the food and one to transport it to my mouth.
What I'd do is make a lists.
This list contains all the items that you feel is "essential" to an adventurer (any kind, not specifics), including their weight and cost.
Then, you take this list and compare it to the items that are already present in a class's starting kit from Ultimate Equipment. Any items that aren't already in the kit get added to it, increasing its weight and cost as necessary.
The starter kits were designed pretty much specifically for the base needs of each class, so they're a good place to start. All you need to do is just add in what you think all of them might need that the base kits don't add, like a dagger (can never go wrong with daggers). An Adventurer's Every-Tool (or whatever it's called) would also be a good idea.
Daggers where usually 6-7 Inch blades and where used for everything from self-defense to eating. usually a man had 2 of these.
1 from his parents when he became an adult. and a 2nd as a gift from his wife. Most women had at least one dagger.
Note: Medieval Europe called any blade shorter than 13 inches a Dagger.
So far I have added to the standard Fighters Kit:
Dagger, Sling, Quarterstaff, Sling Bullets(10), Hooded Lantern, Oil(4), and a Grooming Kit.
I have removed the Soap, Iron Pot(?), and Torches.
Any other ideas?
EDIT: Forgot to mention that we are also using Pathfinderized Weapon Group Feats. The only weapon not in this kit that is part of the Basic Weapon Group is a Club. Anyone think that should be added?
keep the soap and pot in there. or call the pot a frying pan an let them use it as a club
Soap is included in the Grooming Kit. The Pot they will be getting from the Cooking Kit that is part of the Party Kit they get.
Flour, marbles and caltrops never leave home without them. Flour invisible creatures not invisible anymore. Marbles and caltrops cheap but effective battlefield control.
Are there any invisible creatures at early levels?
OK we will also be using the Rules for Living Expense. This means most of the cheaper items in the kit will be easily replaced.
Also just learned the following:
The only gear they start with will be an outfit. The rest will have to be obtained.
Quite literally 0gp at start. Hence Why we are giving them the kit.
2nd lvl caster can be invisible...but the utility never fades...the moment when no one else in the party had, see invisible, glitter dust, ect. prepared. Your no magic char just bailed you out. Little trick I've used since 3rd edition.
Ok, drawing inspiration from Ultimate Equipment's Kits my co-GM & I have decided to create a generic Adventurers' Kit that we can give to everyone for free. It will also be added to NPCs to represent their basic gear.
So I am asking:
What do you think is necessary?
What would be a good price for it?
What other kits do you think could be useful?
They did this in 3.5 dnd I think it was 15 gp, don't remember what it weighed but it had backpack,bedroll,belt pouch,flint and steel 5 days rations,grappling hook 50'rope,1-3 sunrods and a waterskin.
What book cause I can't find that... I know 4e has it.
phb2 I think. it was 3.5e maybe the complete adventurer. It's been 5 or more years soo...
VORPAL CALTROPS! EVERYONE NEEDS THEM!
Vorpal Caltrops!? Aren't Caltrops piercing weapons? which means they can't be Vorpal.
If some one in my game was crazy enough to want to buy vorpal caltrops I'd allow it because awesome!
100ft of rope, 4 pitons, 2 lengths of wire, 4-5 Oil, waterproof bulls eye lantern, grappling hook, and materials to make scrolls/record notes.
+1 Vorpal Caltrops... Yikes...
That would be what 100,000+GP for a small pouch of them?
So far I have a 30gp kit that everyone in my group like. When I finish writing it up and posting it into Google Drive.
The Standard Adventurer's kit in WotC PH2 is on page 216 and includes:
Backpack 2 gp
Belt Pouch 1 gp
Bedroll 1 gp
Flint and Steel 1 gp
Hempen Rope 50' 1 gp
Sunrods (2) 4 gp
Trail Rations (10 days) 5 gp
Waterskin 1 gp
Total 15 gp
Optional items
Holy symbol 1 gp
Spell Component Pouch 5 gp
Spellbook 15 gp
Thieves' tools 30 gp
All prices are from WotC PHB2.
I find it funny that everyone forgets that Wizards, Magi, and Alchemists start with a Spell/Formulae Book for free (see UE's kits for confirmation).
The Standard Adventurer's kit in WotC PH2 is on page 216 and includes:
Backpack 2 gp
Belt Pouch 1 gp
Bedroll 1 gp
Flint and Steel 1 gp
Hempen Rope 50' 1 gp
Sunrods (2) 4 gp
Trail Rations (10 days) 5 gp
Waterskin 1 gpTotal 15 gp
This was what I was talking about^
@the PHB2 Kit: Mine forgoes the Sunrods. and adds in a few other things.
I think the kits in UE were poorly thought out, I mean they weigh a ton! what rogue is going to carry 37 pounds of gear that doesn't even include the weight of his outfit, armor and weaponry?!I'ts as if most characters would need a mandatory 15+ strength, no matter what class,just to carry their gear without being encumbered!
I think the kits in UE were poorly thought out, I mean they weigh a ton! what rogue is going to carry 37 pounds of gear that doesn't even include the weight of his outfit, armor and weaponry?!I'ts as if most characters would need a mandatory 15+ strength, no matter what class,just to carry their gear without being encumbered!
A lot of groups have Mounts.
At first level? also if you calculate a Druids horse companion(the stat model for Cavs and Sams) you'll see that it has a 16 strength, sso it it is to serve as a mount AND haul gear it now has to carry the weight of a person AND all his gear. So assuming a 175lb human(as an average) with a 37lb kit,20 lbs of armor,15 lbs of weapons and 5 lbs of clothing weighs a total of 247lbs not counting feed(10 lbs/day) a saddle and other mount related gear. So at this point the mount is GUARANTEED to be at least in medium encumbrance range and now SLOWER than the party barbarian.
triple for large quadrupeds friend. Already did. what's 3x76? less than 247 ain't it? so the horse is encumbered.
Which proves my point that compared to WoTc's PH2 adventurer kit,these UE kits while entertaining are FAR from practical for level 1 characters. Who in their right mind would need most of that stuff after level 1 anyway? So obviously level 1's would be the target demographic here.
So if you ever go into Medium Encumbrance... You are doing it wrong?
Most of my groups end up with a Mule & Cart.
P.S.: As DeathQuaker stated: Most of this isn't necessary. Unless you are going to have to keep track of it.
Mounts or you drop the bag of tents and bedrolls at the start of the fight
Where did tents come from!?
I suspect that if you took a look at the weights of what most people want to carry to be fully prepared they'd be encumbered as well.
With my normal gear, laptop bag, and my backpack. I am at least at Medium Encumbrance.
I know someone who normally carries around 300lbs of gear.