All,
For a future project, I want an archer who is also a full divine caster. I was thinking Samsaran Oracle of Battle for weapon proficiency, extra spells from the class bonus and the racial ability to add gravity bow to my spell list. Or maybe Cleric or Druid.
What approaches (with no level dips) work out?
Thanks
I would stay away from druid unless you want to use a sling.
We just had this discussion here in Advice. Here’s what I said:
Remember- the party has a tank. You are the healer/buffer who also does some ranged support. A pure fighter or ranger (or even Monk) archer is better, but you can do a LOT. Don;t waste all your feats on archery.
You need CHA for Channeling. This will be your big source of in combat healing. That's also why I gave you those two feats= Extra Channel, Selective Channel.
stats:
11 (+1 level 4)
14
14
12
15+2 (+1 level 8)
14
You need that 18 Wis by level 8, level 7 is better. That will give you a extra 4th level spell. @ 8th level, that's +2 to your bow via great Magic weapon, lasts for hours. That is better than what you get from a 16 DEX.
You need the 14 CHA to give you 2 extra Channels. Scoff all you want, but at 7th level, each extra channel is 56 points of healing! (4 D6 each).
Get wands for after combat healing.
Now, that 12 INT is controversial. I can see going to a 10 and putting the STR to 13. But the cleric hurts for SkP. I think with a 25% boost to SkP you can be a more valuable party member.
But the high CHA is needed. That extra use of Channeling (plus other stuff) will make the party love you. With those other builds you get only three a day. Assuming 4 combats a day, I'd want double that if not 8 a day.
Erastil is a good choice of deity. Feather is a great subdomian. Good is also a great choice, makes your bow or the fighters weapon Holy. Azata is another useful subdomain
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If the racial choice isn't core to the concept I'd go human instead. Divine Casters are feat starved and you really need to get your core feats only asap to be truly effective as an archer. If you go Cleric you can always get the longbow proficiency for free, by picking Erastil as your Deity, which is very thematic for divine archer anyways. Community and travel are both pretty good domains.
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I don't know if DrDeth is saying that they addressed your exact same question earlier or not as they seem to be talking specifics about your party make-up that aren't indicated by your post.
Oracles aren't great for archery builds.
Cleric is doable though. The guided weapon property makes it so that you'd still not need a high dexterity score (a 13 for the the feats that require it). Nor would you have to have a strength score as a lot of archer's using composite bows do as your attack and damage both come from your wisdom score.
Samsaran is a decent race choice as it gives you a +2 to wisdom plus Mystic Past Lives and a good favoured class bonus.
You are going to want to play as a mainly caster cleric until you can afford a Guided bow though as until about 5th/6th level you won't be a decent archer.
Archery is really feat intensive as well, so, and it pains me to say it, if you're dead set on being focused on archery rather than having it as a back up then consider a fighter dip for two levels.
(Yilmancha also has longbow as favoured weapon if you don't want to be locked into the misogyny and cultural conservatism of Erastil)
You've got other buffs like Align Weapon, which is nice against specific foes, too.
With a good dex and a few archery feats, you can hang back and either buff or shoot, whichever seems best. You won't match a purely archery-focused fighter type for DPR, but as a full caster, you'll always be able to do something useful. Erastil does seem like a great choice for your deity, too.
I really wanted to try an Oracle.
But i might be open to a Cleric. If I did, I would go with Ylimancha (an Empyreal Lord; favored weapon Longbow; Feather domain or at least Animal, with Air and Good and maybe Water available too.
But I kihda hoped an Oracle would be possible.
Hmm.
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Yilmancha also has longbow as favoured weapon if you don't want to be locked into the misogyny and cultural conservatism of Erastil
Guess I missed that source-book.
Human Cleric, level 1. Worship Erastil.
Feats: Channel Smite, Guided Hand.
Non-humans can get Guided Hand at 3.
Optionally (I know you really don't want to but you will be insanely behind on feats otherwise) dip paladin 1 Divine Hunter for free Precise Shot. Cleric x/Paladin1 won't hurt too badly (keep you on same spellcasting progression as Oracle).
Otherwise you won't get Precise Shot until 5. Which will be really painful.
I dont want to be Lawful, so Paladin and Erastil options are out.
But is Oracle of Battle non-workable? I was thinking that the Martial Weapon mystery would be good, as well as the one that gives me 3 feats (eventually) with my weapon of choice (weapon focus, improved crit, greater weapon focus). Plus again, Gravity bow and a bonus spell every level are nice.
I also thought about an Oracle of Waves, just to stand in my own Obscuring Mist and deny people their dex bonuses.
Anyway, thanks for all replies!
I dont want to be Lawful, so Paladin and Erastil options are out.
But is Oracle of Battle non-workable? I was thinking that the Martial Weapon mystery would be good, as well as the one that gives me 3 feats (eventually) with my weapon of choice (weapon focus, improved crit, greater weapon focus). Plus again, Gravity bow and a bonus spell every level are nice.
I also thought about an Oracle of Waves, just to stand in my own Obscuring Mist and deny people their dex bonuses.
Anyway, thanks for all replies!
Absolutely not! I don't know why "Oracles aren't great for archery builds." Certainly, the Oracle of Battle is better than a Cleric! You may be giving up some 'clerical' abilities, but you are trading them for being decent at archery.
I don't have the specific build worked out, but I know the Oracle of Battle has an advantage for this purpose. As far as race, I don't think you can beat human. +2 to any stat with no penalty, extra feat and skill points = good choice.
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Yilmancha also has longbow as favoured weapon if you don't want to be locked into the misogyny and cultural conservatism of ErastilGuess I missed that source-book.
The first Kingmaker book has a section on Erastil's opinions of other gods, and some of them (most notably his thoughts on Iomedae) are generally construed as misogynistic.
I dont want to be Lawful, so Paladin and Erastil options are out.
But is Oracle of Battle non-workable? I was thinking that the Martial Weapon mystery would be good, as well as the one that gives me 3 feats (eventually) with my weapon of choice (weapon focus, improved crit, greater weapon focus). Plus again, Gravity bow and a bonus spell every level are nice.
I also thought about an Oracle of Waves, just to stand in my own Obscuring Mist and deny people their dex bonuses.
Anyway, thanks for all replies!
Absolutely not! I don't know why "Oracles aren't great for archery builds." Certainly, the Oracle of Battle is better than a Cleric! You may be giving up some 'clerical' abilities, but you are trading them for being decent at archery.
I don't have the specific build worked out, but I know the Oracle of Battle has an advantage for this purpose. As far as race, I don't think you can beat human. +2 to any stat with no penalty, extra feat and skill points = good choice.
I see where they are coming from now. I still love Oracles of Battle, but you need Charisma, and that won't work with Guided Hand. However, you don't wish to serve Erastil, so Oracle may be your best way to get what you want.
Well if i go with Cleric, Ylimancha also has Longbow favored. Plus i could get an animal companion. :)
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The first Kingmaker book has a section on Erastil's opinions of other gods, and some of them (most notably his thoughts on Iomedae) are generally construed as misogynistic.Yilmancha also has longbow as favoured weapon if you don't want to be locked into the misogyny and cultural conservatism of ErastilGuess I missed that source-book.
Thanks for the source. I'm down with hating on female Torm, but because she is boring not cause she is a lay-day!
My two cents, and reasoning behind:
Kitsune Oracle:
Alternate Favored Class Bonus - Oracle: Reduce the penalty for not being proficient for one weapon by 1. When the nonproficiency penalty for a weapon becomes 0 because of this ability, the oracle is treated as having the appropriate Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat for that weapon.
20 point buy:
Str 11 (3 pts); Dex 14 (2 pts); Con 12 (2 pts); Int 10 (0 pts); Wis 10 (3 pts); Cha 19 (13 pts)
Composite Longbow (1d8 20/x3)
At level 1, +0 to hit (-4 non proficient, +1 Kitsune Alternate Racial, +1 BAB, +2 Dex)
+1 to hit at level 2, 3, 4 in addition to BAB increases. At level 4, you are treated as having the appropriate feat. At levels 5-8, pick something like Falcata (1d8, 19-20/x3) or Elven Curved Blade (1d10, 18–20/×2) for when the enemy closes, and they will close...
Mystery: Whatever floats your boat. Since you slowly get the weapon feats for free, there is no reason to select a mystery or waste a feat to get your desired weapon proficiency.
Cha at level 4, Str at level 8, whatever you like from there.
Belt of Giant Strength and headband of charisma as soon as possible.
Orales don't have +1 BAB at level 1
Sorry, revising as follows:
Assume using Kitsune Alt. Favored Class at each level.
+0 BAB level 1 => -1 to hit with bow. (-4 Non Proficient, +0 BAB +1 Kitsune, +2 Dex = -1 to hit with longbow)
+1 BAB level 2 => +1 to hit with bow.(-4 Non Proficient, +1 BAB +2 Kitsune, +2 Dex = +1 to hit with longbow)
+2 BAB level 3 => +3 to hit with bow.(-4 Non Proficient, +2 BAB +3 Kitsune, +2 Dex = +3 to hit with longbow)
+3 BAB level 4 => +5 to hit with bow.(Considered to have the appropriate Weapon Proficiency Feat, +3 BAB, +2 Dex = +5 to hit with longbow)
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Human Cleric of Erastil. Take the Feather subdomain for the animal companion, with Boon Companion as your 5th level feat. Then you won't need the Con. You can pump Wis and Dex, and be a touch light on Cha and Str.
Str 12
Dex 16
Con 10
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 13
PBS/Precise for your first level feats. 4th level, pump either Wis or Cha as you see the need.
You're really only sunk in for 3 feats- afterwards, you can customize as you see fit.
And the Lawful Good, patronizing, well-intentioned misogyny can make for very good roleplaying
Its too bad Witches have the slow BAB. I would otherwise love to be a Witch Archer. :( Oh well. Thanks for the replies!
Cleric with Guided Hand is the best option.
I have a very high level druid archer, but it would not have worked out too well before the elemental wildshapes came online. Also getting Grater Magic Weapon added to the spell list helped a ton. If you are starting at high level, though, the boons an air elemental form give to archery are pretty good.
How about an Elf Oracle, Battle Mystery? Racial Proficiency with the Compound Longbow.
Str 12
Dex 15
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 16
Feats: 1 Point Blank Shot, 3 Precise Shot
Revelation: 1 Battle Cry, 3 Weapon Mastery, 5 Surprising Charge
Or go human, take PBS and Precise Shot at level one and the (much unloved) crossbow that you have proficency for (simple weapon). You don't need Rapid Reload till your BAB hits +6/+1 at level 8 though it would be nice to have before then. You could pick up Rapid Reload or Longbow Proficiency at level 3. You can fire a crossbow or cast spells from prone for the extra AC against ranged attacks - just make sure no-one can get to you or that you have a bodyguard or Guard Dog nearby. (Is there a feat to stand from prone without provoking? There is a Rogue Talent for it.)
Unseen Servant can help with loading your crossbow - makes owning two Heavy Crossbows appealing - though he can't be the bodyguard.
Only the Life Oracle gets to Channel, and honestly that's *the* way to go, esp if fighting from the rear.
I think battle oracle is a perfectly viable choice, probably better than a cleric. You might start a bit slower, but you'll get all sorts of boosts to your combat skills clerics won't. The kitsune idea is good, it will save you a feat/revelation, but it's not needed.
All of the revelations are good. You'll definitely want War Sight and Weapon Mastery, but none of them would be a bad choice, with the exception of Maneuver Mastery and maybe Battlecry if you've got a bard in the party. Combat healer revelation + reach spell metamagic could be great for healing your allies while you hang back with your bow without interrupting your archery. You'd be using two level 2 slots to cast CLW (or equivalent increase for better cure spell), but it'd be quickened and a ranged touch that your archery feats would help make sure it always hits. It could also be an extra attack against undead. It would make in-combat healing very easy and efficient to do, you've got the spells to spare. Especially because you'll spend a lot of combat time shooting, not casting.
Only the Life Oracle gets to Channel, and honestly that's *the* way to go, esp if fighting from the rear.
I had forgotten about that. Still, the archer build I suggested should work well enough with the Life Oracle.
I have no interest in the Life oracle at all, conceptually. However, I do appreciate the suggestions.
Might be weaker than the battle oracle but I had thought about a dual class archer including the wood oracle.
One of the revelations lets you get attuned with wooden weapons to get bonuses to hit. Those will not help you get your iterative attacks earlyer but they help offset the lower to hit.
Sadly a wood oracle can't summon up a bow as a wood weapon.
Might be weaker than the battle oracle but I had thought about a dual class archer including the wood oracle.
One of the revelations lets you get attuned with wooden weapons to get bonuses to hit. Those will not help you get your iterative attacks earlyer but they help offset the lower to hit.Sadly a wood oracle can't summon up a bow as a wood weapon.
Yeah, if you'd been able to summon a bow I would have said it was just about as good as battle for archery. Wood and Ancestor are both good secondary choices, but battle is the best.