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What Bardic performance work with the "discordant Voice" feat


Rules Questions


The feat says it works whenever you are using a bardic performance to create a spell-like or supernatural effect, but reading and searching the bard description I don't see spell-like or supernatural used.

It does say in the Bardic Performance description...

"A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired."

Is that enough to assume spell-like or supernatural? I thought it would require them to be listed directly as such.

I was considering taking the Discordant Voice feat for my Dawnflower Dervish so my question is in general to the bard and if anyone see's why this wouldn't work on a Dawnflower Dervish that would be helpful to me also.

Thank you in advance.


All of the core bardic performances are either spell-like or supernatural as noted in the performances themselves.
(su) = supernatural
(sp) = spell-like

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Spoiler:
Fascinate (Su): At 1st level, a bard can use his performance
to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with
him. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90
feet, able to see and hear the bard, and capable of paying
attention to him. The bard must also be able to see the
creatures affected. The distraction of a nearby combat
or other dangers prevents this ability from working. For
every three levels the bard has attained beyond 1st, he can
target one additional creature with this ability.
Each creature within range receives a Will save (DC 10
+ 1/2 the bard’s level + the bard’s Cha modifier) to negate
the effect. If a creature’s saving throw succeeds, the bard
cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24
hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly
and observes the performance for as long as the bard
continues to maintain it. While fascinated, a target takes
a –4 penalty on all skill checks made as reactions, such
as Perception checks. Any potential threat to the target
allows the target to make a new saving throw against the
effect. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a
weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a weapon at the target,
automatically breaks the effect.
Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mindaffecting
ability. Fascinate relies on audible and visual
components in order to function.

You'll notice the bolded (su). That means that is a supernatural ability. If you look at the suggestion bardic music you'll notice the (sp) next to its name. That means it's a spell like ability.


It works on any performance, they just felt the need to make it require specific perform ranks for reasons that confound me.

Also note, even if using one of your "selfish performances" (ie, battle dances) that affect only you, your allies STILL benefit from this feat. In fact, if you use a performance that doesn't even buff at all, like fascinate/suggestion, this feat still buffs your allies. Them benefitting from your performance has nothing to do with this feat. All the feat cares about is that you're using performance to create a Sp or Su effect.


All Bardic performances are either supernatural or spell-like.

Supernatural:
Countersong, Distraction, Fascinate, Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Dirge of Doom, Inspire Greatness, Soothing Performance, Inspire Heroics, Deadly Performance

Spell-Like:
Suggestion, Frightening Tune, Mass Suggestion

Discordant Voice is a great feat and should probably be taken at 11th lvl if your Bard keeps Bardic Performance as a class feature......

That said.....Dawnflower Dervish does NOT have bardic Performance, they trade that ability for Battle Dance. So this feat is useless for you if you go that route. Repeat.... You Must Have Bardic Performance as a Class Feature. If your archtype trades that in for some variation that is not named Bardic Performance this feat will not work with it.


I disagree. Firstly, battle dance functions just as bardic performance.

Secondly, a DD still retains all the other performances not subject to the rules of battle dance, such as fascinate.

The only ones they lose are the ones explicitly swapped out for other class features.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

I disagree. Firstly, battle dance functions just as bardic performance.

Secondly, a DD still retains all the other performances not subject to the rules of battle dance, such as fascinate.

The only ones they lose are the ones explicitly swapped out for other class features.

Hmmm....that is true. I forgot that it still had some of the performances. On a second read, I concede...your right I'm wrong. It would work because it's an alteration to bardic performance not a replacement of.


Thank you for the help. I didn't even notice the SU next to the names of the performances.

The ablity is called "battle Dance" but in the description.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-a rchetypes/dawnflower-dervish

"Battle dancing is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, and effects that affect bardic performance, except that battle dancing does not benefit from the Lingering Performance feat or any other ability that allows a bardic performance to grant bonuses after it has ended."

I think this covers the name issue, I was just worried because I couldn't find the type of effect it was.

Thank you guys again for your fast help.


The real problem I see with the Dd battle dance is the feat pre-reqs have "Perform (oratory or sing) 10 ranks" While battle dance requires preform (dance) if I recall.

Wait now that I look at it the wording is is not hard and fast that it must be dance.... would be odd not to be but RAW it seems to have wiggle room.


Discordant Voice also doesn't require the performance being used to be sing or oratory. It justh as those ranks as a pre-req for reasons I don't understand. Probably to fit the fluff of the name "Voice," but thankfully the mechanics/crunch didn't screw over bards that like to use other performances.

At least you have Versatile Performance so those 10 ranks aren't necessarily a waste just for this feat.

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