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Decision and Ironskin Monk


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Okay, my party for the Kingmaker game (which I am starting at Saturday) voted for the DM PC, to my surprise. The only problem is, I have a hard time picking the one I am supposed to play. My choices are a Paladin (Sacred Servant of Abadar) and a Monk (Ironskin Monk/Brother of the Seal), both belonging to my homebrew race (which I can play since I am DM) that gets +2 to Str and Wisdom with a -2 penalty to Dex for those curious.

Anyway, I am not sure which one to pick. The party so far consists of...

1 - Human Necromancer from Iblydos, Lawful Neutral
(Played by the most experienced and RP-wise invested player)

2 - Dwarf Cleric of Torag/Angradd from Brevoy, Lawful Good
(Played as a Battle Cleric, might take Holy Vindicator levels)

3 - Catfolk Ranger with family roots in Tian Xia, Chaotic Good
(Played by the newcomer, a strong switch-hitter with possible Rogue dip)

If I do pick the Monk (who would have been on a quest to prove her skills until she ran into the group), I'd wanna know how to get a good build going if I choose to specialize in hitting hard, rolling well on Sunder checks (unless told to use my bonus feats on something else) and making good use of the Prestige Class' Awesome Blow ability. The Paladin (who'd be the second local alongside the Dwarf) I already have more or less figured out when it comes to stats and abilities.

Actually, I'm leaning more towards making that Paladin (for now), but I'm still not sure.

In terms of backstory, the Paladin would be a local who'd be recruited by one of the Brevic noble houses to join the group on their quest, while the Monk is a member of the Pathfinder Society who's found a good way to hone her arts while also gathering the info her bosses want. Also, I hate the fact that I need to bump my own thread. Lastly, how good is an Ironskin/Qinggong Monk combo (stats are probably good, since they will be rolled), with the Brother of the Seal Prestige Class as a side-dish?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Ironskin Monk is less MAD due to needing a less higher wisdom.

Would my stat priority be...

Str > Con > Dex > Wis > Int = Cha

...or some other way?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Sounds about right. I have just discovered Brother of the Seal, and have not quite pinned down it's intended build.

I think it's more about the fluff than the build.

Though to me it seems like it's specializing in Sundering, using Awesome Blow and punching magic barriers so hard they break.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Can Awesome Blow be performed with a weapon?

Nothing says the Combat Maneuver must be specifically made while unarmed. So that's a yes.

The evidence I found was that the Cloud Giant has Awesome Blow as a feat, and can use it even while armed.

Are you suggesting that my Monk used a weapon instead of Unarmed Strikes, then? If so, which weapon you got in mind?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Shatterspike is pretty awesome for sunder, even more so with the Dueling enchantment.

If you take a single Cleric dip, or get it enchanted with the Transformative property, you can sunder and Awesome Blow pretty dang well.

If I take a Cleric dip, it will probably be to be a Cleric of Irori.
How much would I lose as a Monk with the Cleric dip, and how do I make use of it?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Cleric for Crusader's Flurry, to flurry with a Longsword.

It's not the only option.

Shatterspike with the Transformative property to become a Temple Sword.

Temple Sword is a good option, as you get Power Attack, and you can two hand it.

Around what level should a Shatterspike even be within the WBL range?

I wouldn't wanna cheat as a DM and just snatch one for myself ASAP, after all.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Around 4th level.

Around 6th if you want it Transformative.

Really, that early?

Also, funny how nobody else seems to care about this thread.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

There are ups and down to the dip.

I suggest Crusader if you do dip. Do it at 3rd for Weapon Focus and Crusader's Flurry in one swoop.

With the words "do it at 3rd" you mean take three levels of Monk, then dip to Cleric?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Two levels of Monk, take your third in Crusader Cleric, then continue Monk.

Iomedae is good choice, unless you are okay with an evil god.

An Iomedaean Monk from Quain?

It wouldn't make much sense to me, character-wise...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Are you okay with an evil God?

Depends on which one it is.

The character is Lawful Neutral.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Longsword choices within your alignment include:




Lucky for you, the evil choices have little info, allowing you to create your own fluff.

I think I'd rather go with Aroden.

And that got me the interesting idea of this Monk having heretical views of sorts, since she honors both the dead Aroden and the living Irori. Though why should I forgo using Unarmed Strikes in favor of a Longsword? Would the Shatterspike be worth all the trouble? I can't use a Transformative Shatterspike to make it into a pair of Cestus, or can I? Since I am DM, I have decided to use Brass Knuckles and Cestus as they were pre-errata. I forgot how to explain.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Two handing the weapon with Power Attack is strong.

Also, by the wording of the Awesome Blow ability of the Brother of the Seal, you can add unarmed strike damage to your Longwsord when using it to make an Awesome Blow.

Combining an Adamantine Shatterspike(if allowed) you will basically ignore the hardness of anything in existence.

What's the crunch of this custom race?

By crunch you mean the main stats?

+2 to Strength and Wisdom, -2 to Dexterity

Powerful Build

Gore Natural Attack + Powerful Charge

+4 bonus against Maze spells and ability to determine where north is automatically

Bonuses to Perception and Diplomacy (or was it Sense Motive?)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Okay. I was thinking about racially specific feats, so I was curious.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Is the Guided enchantment allowed?

Why wouldn't it be?

I'm still the freaking DM! XD

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, as you can get the Power Attack feat without meeting the prerequisites, a Guided weapon will allow you to put much less into strength.

It's another option. If you want to go back to wisdom.

As for Domain, the Defense Subdomain is not bad. It also allows you to use Wands of Barkskin.


Also, what would I gain and what would I lose if I instead went with pure Unarmed fighting?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, another funny thing, is if you add the Transformative property to Shatterspike, you can have it turn into a large sized Brass Knuckles or Cestus.


I guess that means I'll be using some Large ShatterCestus then.

Unless I suddenly change my mind and want to roll that Paladin of Abadar instead.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If you do that, then the Cleric dip is unnecessary.

You won't be able to afford that until around 6th, but that is about the time you will go into the PrC, so it will be a key point.

Yeah, I just need to decide now if I want a Paladin of Abadar from Brevoy, or this Monk from distant Quain.

Both have their reasons to join on the merry crew to kill some bandits, and neither would have troubles with the rest of the team.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

This is a NPC?

Go with the Monk.

Paladins are tricky.

It's a DM PC, not an NPC.

I am technically part of the group.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Be sure not to steal the limelight.

DMPC's have a habit of doing that sometimes.

My last DM had to use a DM PC since one of the players had to leave.

If he could pull it off without hogging the spotlight, I sure as hell can do the same.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber


Seeing as this Monk will be smashing things, you will make a good hitter, and support role.

I would drop a wand of Make Whole down the line, so the PCs don't get upset about their Monk buddy destroying treasure.

I doubt she'd go around destroying gear, considering she is a member of the Pathfinder Society.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, that's what Sunder specialist do. Break things, like bones, weapons, armor, and spirit.

Also, breaking through anything you want is what she will do outside of combat as well.

Eventually, a Wall of Force will be a cake walk to bust through.

The group's Cleric or Wizard can provide the Make Whole wand.

Both value treasure, after all. And yeah, I am aware of the awesome abilities.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Actually, Breaker is an awesome name for this PC.

Given she's from Quain, I tried to look up Chinese female names with little success.

The Breaker would probably be her title.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Quain is pseudo-chinese, so don't restrict yourself too much.

Also, check out the Quain Martial Artist trait.

I keep forgetting this PC is not a Hobgoblin.

I am aware of that.

Took it as well as Wisdom in the Flesh.

And yeah, I'd play one if I got a cool idea running.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You're not wisdom focused, why Wisdom in the Flesh?

...good point.

I'll have to change that to some other trait.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, you could pick up Flair for Destruction, Reactionary, or Enlightened Warrior, which allow you to be neutral, and multiclass Barbarian if you wanted.


Wait wait wait...wasn't it said somewhere that you can't flurry with 1 weapon? It has to alternate from the weapon and unarmed strikes or 2 weapons or 2 different unarmed strikes?

So he'd have to dual wield Longswords/Templeswords/Spike, right?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It got changed to a large Cestus(Transfomative Shatterspike), so she can just grab another Cestus, and Flurry.

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