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As you know, you have to register a faction. You're free to ignore your faction missions, of course, but the increased difficulty would certainly make for "hard mode" PFS. Also consider the impact this would have on fellow party members... If your resources are more limited than average, then your fellow PCs will likely have to pick up the slack.
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I do know of one player in the Raleigh NC area that dislikes the whole faction idea, and I don't think he ever does his faction missions. I also believe he doesn't spend much money on his character's gear. He plays a fighter.
I think his character is nominally part of the Andoran faction.
I don't know how this has impacted his character.
To answer your question: can a player make a character without a faction?
“Your character belongs to one of 10 factions (pregenerated characters are assumed to belong to the Grand Lodge faction). Each time you play a Pathfinder Society adventure, your faction leader will give you a specific side mission related to your faction’s goals. Completion of these missions influences the overall storyline of the Pathfinder Society campaign, and grants your character access to special boons and advantages.” Page 9 Pathfinder society guide.
So I would say no, It isn't possible to make a character that is not part of a faction.
You can make a character that never does his faction missions, but he has to be part of one of the faction.
The Grand lodge is the default faction for those who don't want a divided loyalty.
I hope this helps
well, and 11th faction, the factionless.. gaining half the benefit of the specific mission without having one, and resulting in contacts with the other factionless rebels. Like maybe cheaper items? (just like ineps from planescape)
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Although, the Grand Lodge does provide "faction" missions which aren't given to all Pathfinders, and often go well beyond the main mission.
The only way to avoid factions is to do as you suggest, and ignore the faction mission. My Qadiran Inquisitor, Aram bin Kaleel, does this most of the time, unless the faction mission happens to align with his personal goals (almost never). His battle cry of "suck it, Trade Prince!" starts many a scenario, and keeps his prestige low enough. (Although, one raise dead has put him dangerously close to zero - maybe I'll switch factions now).
I'll be trying Grand Lodge with my Lawful Neutral monk. His opinion is that he and the Pathfinders have an agreement, and adherence to this agreement trumps all else.
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I'd say the "factionless" PC would have to "belong" to the Grand Lodge and while adventuring with another Grand Lodge PC, who completed the faction mission, the "factionless" PC would also earn the faction point.
I mean, if they are a Pathfinder and they don't have a faction, then by default they are in the Grand Lodge faction. Whether they wish to serve their faction by completing the actual mission or the extra favor asked of them, is entirely up to them, though I suspect other members of their party might have something to say about it.
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Whether they wish to serve their faction by completing the actual mission or the extra favor asked of them, is entirely up to them, though I suspect other members of their party might have something to say about it.The other party members would worry about them completing their faction goals? That's... odd...
I think he meant they'll be wondering about a PC being a good ways behind on the WBL curve, as their max purchases will be well below the rest of the party. They'll also be more likely to need help on a raise dead. Most PC's can pull it off at lvl 4. He would be into 6th level before he could pay for one out of PA.
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Even then, he would have something like 75% Fame as much as the next player - having gained the Main Mission points and those faction missions that he stumbles into.
So what you are saying is by not trying to complete any of their faction missions they will have the same amount of Fame as all the other players who actively attempt to complete their faction missions?
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Before someone flames the idea, I was just wondering if you could run a PFS character that doesn't have a faction?
You have to have a faction. But you may ignore the missions.
Has anyone tried this yet?
Yes I know of at least one player who has a straight fighter that has never completed a single faction mission and has made it all the way to 10th level.
Anyone have any thought on this?
I think it should be a valid option in PFS play to be outside the politics of the factions if a player wanted to be, yet still earn fame within the Pathfinder Society. I see no reason why someone shouldn't be able to play with a handicap if they desired.
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Even then, he would have something like 75% Fame as much as the next player - having gained the Main Mission points and those faction missions that he stumbles into.So what you are saying is by not trying to complete any of their faction missions they will have the same amount of Fame as all the other players who actively attempt to complete their faction missions?
I think he is overlooking the fact that the PA for the Main Mission was a season 3 (?) introduction and all PA prior to that were faction based.
Has anyone tried this yet? I can see it makeing the items on the Chronicle much more interesting (getting only about half the possible fame).
I've thought about having a character who ignores all faction missions, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable telling someone who shares the same placeholder faction that I'm not interested in helping him. And if I did tell him that I'm willing to help, then that's hardly any different from being a normal faction member.
actually not quite the picture I have of a guy like this.
I'm not really talking about the fluff behind it; you can flavour it in a bunch of different ways, of course.
I'm talking about the actual actions that the character takes, regardless of motivation, and how those actions impact other PCs who share the same (nominal) faction. Either he helps his (nominal) faction-mates to the best of his ability (in which case I'm playing my PC almost exactly the same as if he did have a faction which seems counter-intuitive, given the concept) or he doesn't (in which case I might be putting my PC's faction-mates at a disadvantage from time to time, which I'm loth to do).
So the only times I wasn't helping with "my faction mission" would be when there wasn't another member at the table - and even then I'd be helping with the others. Anybody that asked.
Right. But if they don't or can't ask you for specific help (for instance, if you're the one who discovers the macguffin instead of them but you don't know the significance of it because you didn't read your faction mission), too bad for them.
I realise it's a corner case, but I'd still prefer not to be put into that position, personally.
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The other party members would worry about them completing their faction goals? That's... odd...
Well I usually try to help out other faction missions when I can. But there's also the fact that if your fighter doesn't have the Prestige for a +2 sword at level 10 he's going to be less effective than he otherwise might be.
How is this different from having someone who is in a different faction in your group?
In one sense, it's not really different: instead of having a party member who is 100% helpful with your faction mission, you end up with a party member who is 75% helpful (that's a totally made up number, of course). But the point is that you're taking up a space at the game table that could be occupied by a PC that's 100% helpful.
Note: There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But when I make a character, I like to make the best possible "team player" I can.
If someone turns to him as the adventure starts (walking out of the VC briefing for example) and says "I'm looking for (insert mcmuffen) for a friend of mine - could you keep an eye open for it?" Then that's all he's looking for.
I just don't understand how not looking at your own faction mission is necessary for making that character possible.
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Isn't the Grand Lodge 'faction' the one for players who don't want their PC to have a faction? The 'faction missions' they're given are extra responsibilities to see if they're worth keeping an eye on or not, e.g. for advancement to Venture-Captain, rather than any ulterior motive of another organisation.
sorry! I guess I'm not explaining my concept clearly (you mean you CN"T read my mind?)
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The character concept is for a PC that has no faction. Why would he read a faction mission - when he has no faction? Why would a faction head assign him a "mission" - when he isn't part of that faction?
No, I understand you want to play a character who doesn't read faction missions. I'm just saying that has nothing to do with a character who fits this description:
If someone turns to him as the adventure starts (walking out of the VC briefing for example) and says "I'm looking for (insert mcmuffen) for a friend of mine - could you keep an eye open for it?" Then that's all he's looking for.
You can trivially have one without the other. I.e., you could have a helpful character who reads his faction missions, you could have an unhelpful character who reads his faction missions, you could have a helpful character who doesn't read his faction missions, and you could have an unhelpful character who doesn't read his faction missions. As I noted above, the first one listed would be the most useful one to have in a party.
"...you could have a helpful character who reads his faction missions..."
"... the first one listed would be the most useful one to have in a party."Must be monday - I do not understand why. Feel free to ignore me if I am being to slow today. How is reading (or not) his faction mission effecting his usefulness?
I can think of more examples later on, if you like. But again: I have no problem with you making such a character and I would wish you the best of luck if you did so. I'm just saying that I've rejected the idea for myself.
In all of the above you are assuming that the PC has at least one faction mate at the table.
Yes. So in some cases (those cases where he does have a faction mate at the table), the table is better off if he reads his faction mission. Not every case, certainly.
And by NOT haveing a faction, he reduces the amount of time spent on DIFFERENT faction missions.
I have no idea what this means.
I'm seeing more gain than lose here.
I can't think of one case where the other players at the table gain anything.
If there are two factions at the table, say Andoran and Cheliax, you have 2 faction missions that take game time to resolve. For example purposes let us say that each faction requires 5 minutes of game time, and perhpaps another 5 minutes of judge time. So 20 minutes overall takeing care of faction business at the table.
If my Factionless character (say he is Grand Lodge for this example) steps into this group, there are now three factions at the table. There should now be 5 minutes more of game time spent on faction business, and another 5 minutes spent of judges time... where does this 10 minutes come from? Having my character NOT do anything for "his faction" means that everyone gets 10 minutes more of game time. He just gets less Fame at the end of the game.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about DOING your faction mission, I'm talking about READING your faction mission. In my experience, everyone reads their faction mission at the same time, so unless you're the world's slowest reader, you're not saving any time by not reading it. And it might just do some good in the case where you happen to have the same faction as someone else.
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Anyone have any thought on this? (yeah, I know, I'm asking to be flamed here. sigh.)
It comes down to the long line of Society moral codes which go usually like this:
"Don't do this to your teammates..."I myself support your idea. I see nothing wrong with it. If people can play characters with -X on Will Saves for higher damage output and gimp the party when they fail their Will Save, then people should be able to make their characters handicaped if they wish so.
This is just mine opinion.
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I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about DOING your faction mission, I'm talking about READING your faction mission. In my experience, everyone reads their faction mission at the same time, so unless you're the world's slowest reader, you're not saving any time by not reading it. And it might just do some good in the case where you happen to have the same faction as someone else.If there are two factions at the table, say Andoran and Cheliax, you have 2 faction missions that take game time to resolve. For example purposes let us say that each faction requires 5 minutes of game time, and perhpaps another 5 minutes of judge time. So 20 minutes overall takeing care of faction business at the table.
If my Factionless character (say he is Grand Lodge for this example) steps into this group, there are now three factions at the table. There should now be 5 minutes more of game time spent on faction business, and another 5 minutes spent of judges time... where does this 10 minutes come from? Having my character NOT do anything for "his faction" means that everyone gets 10 minutes more of game time. He just gets less Fame at the end of the game.
AH! ok.... maybe. Though I was afread more that there might be "fore shadowing" information in the faction mission, something like the faction mission saying I am going to encounter a Ghoul - collect it's ears. Then I'd miss that.
Oh, and at most tables that I have been at there is only one copy of the faction mission. So if there are two people in that faction, it takes twice as long to read it. In fact, my wife will often NOT read her faction mission if there is someone else in her faction. She says she just gets lost in the language of the note, and want someone to just tell her what she needs to do.
In many ways, I would consider that a GM/Organizer fail. When I do my printing for any scenarios I am going to be GMing or organizing, I typically print two copies of the faction mission for season 3 or later, and 3 copies for season 0-2.
@hogarth: "I can't think of one case where the other players at the table gain anything."
Less argument at the table, if the person whose faction mission says to kill NPC X doesn't pay attention to his faction mission. And I have seen/participated in the argument. Sucks when the party captures NPC X to question him, faction mission Y says he has to die, and the party includes a Paladin or equivalent.
I have also seen faction missions where someone in the party has to run off on their own, frequently when the party is about to get into an encounter, to do something "secret".
And we won't mention all the time spent on table talk when the mission is to schmooze someone who hates Elves, and both members of the faction are elves & half-elves. Been there, done that. Multiple attempts, since the scenario timeline covers days, for them to try and use their low Diplomacy, with a penalty because of race, to try and get the NPC favorable to them.
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I have a character who is nominally factionless. He played a whole heap of adaptables (then had GM certs applied). Being factionless was an unintended consequence of playing adaptables, but I'm running sith it.
He's rather confused by this faction business, but the person who keeps writing him letters these days did help bring him back to life that one time, so he is willing to help them (although when playing an early scenario he got a letter from someone he'd never heard of before so he refused to do the mission).