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So, in the equipment section of the Core Rulebook, under light and heavy shields are rules for shield bashing, which at the end of each type's bash description says that a shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right. So does this mean a character could assign magic weapon properties to a shield that are normally reserved for melee weapons only? That is, could I have a +1 flaming heavy wooden shield that deals fire damage on a successful shield bash? I find it being made of wood to be extra comical.
On the same note, does this also mean that if that same shield were not magical, but was made of adamantine instead of wood, it would bypass adamantine-based DR with a shield bash?
He could, though the +1 flaming heavy wooden shield, as described, offers no bonus to defense -- it's just a heavy shield when people try to hit you. (When you try to hit *them*, though, things change).
And yes, an adamantine shield counts as an adamantine bludgeoning weapon for the purposes of DR... but, remember, shield bashes are automatically considered off-hand attacks per the RAW.
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No, a shield can be used as a primary weapon.
Just like normal weapons, because the shield is a weapon.
You can even wield a heavy shield with two hands, for x1.5 strength to damage, like every other one-handed weapon.
The drawback of a shield bash, is the loss of the shield bonus to AC.
That's it.
Otherwise, as I stated, and as it is stated in RAW, it's a weapon.
So, in the equipment section of the Core Rulebook, under light and heavy shields are rules for shield bashing, which at the end of each type's bash description says that a shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right. So does this mean a character could assign magic weapon properties to a shield that are normally reserved for melee weapons only? That is, could I have a +1 flaming heavy wooden shield that deals fire damage on a successful shield bash? I find it being made of wood to be extra comical.
On the same note, does this also mean that if that same shield were not magical, but was made of adamantine instead of wood, it would bypass adamantine-based DR with a shield bash?
If you wanted a +1 Bashing shield to also be a +1 Flaming shield however, the costs are pretty heavy.
+1 Flaming weapon = +8000g to a masterwork weapon (307g for Heavy Wood Shield)
+1 Bashing = +6000g (4000g for +2 armor, but *1.5 since it is an additional magical property)
Total = 14307g (or 14457g if the GM decides that a MW shield that is a weapon AND armor would be 300+150+cost instead of just the higher of the two).
This shield would give +3 to AC (2 from Heavy Wood Shield, and 1 for enhancement bonus) be +1 to hit and damage, and adds 1d6 fire damage per shield bash. Gets even more spendy the higher you make the bonuses.
There is no x1.5 price modifier when adding either weapon or shield properties to a shield.
You wouldn't rule that adding weapon bonuses AND armor bonuses on the same item would fall under "Multiple properties"?
So a +5 Flaming Burst, Speed Shield that is also +5 Bashing, Ghost Touch (for AC purposes only), Arrow Catching (effectively +10 weapon AND a +10 piece of armor on the same item) would only cost 300,307g?
While that is a lot of cash, it is also a lot of bang for you buck. A single item that gives bonuses to Saves AND to Skill Checks would fall under "Multiple properties" why wouldn't a single item that is both a weapon AND piece of armor?
because it states that shields are enchanted separately for weapon and armor properties. Same as a double weapon pays separate costs for each end, not total for the same item with multiple properties.
if not for that clause in the shield description, you would be correct.
Point taken and conceded :)
No, a shield can be used as a primary weapon.
Just like normal weapons, because the shield is a weapon.
Then there's been a revision, because the rules used to say:
You can bash an opponent with a light shield, using it as an off-hand weapon.
So thanks for pointing out that it's no longer the case -- I much, much prefer that it's not the case anymore.
And personally, I tend to enchant the shield spikes as a weapon. :)
No, no, they *have* changed the language -- I'm not disputing that you're right - I'm actually quite pleased to learn of the change. :)
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Of course, having the +5 adamantine flaming burst ghost touch/+5 Ghost touch greater energy resistant shield MIGHT draw attention from AM SUNDERARIAN :-)
He'd have to work pretty hard to sunder such a monstrosity. Each +1 there gives extra hit points. I'm also a fan of the fighter favoured class bonus that helps against specific combat manoeuvres. Grapple and sunder are in my opinion the worst to deal with, so adding my level to my CMD would be very welcome.
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I personally like the idea of a Shield as a main weapon thematically.
Too many people play it up as some sort of clumsy anti-weapon.
Rules-wise and historically, this is not true.
In fact, some people will straight up throw a fit when a player uses a shield as a main weapon, as if only the mentally handicapped would do so.
This is weird to me, especially compared to some of the fantasy weapons available, that simply would not work in the real world.
Examples include: Barbazu Beard, Dire Flail, Orc Double Axe, Gnome Hooked Hammer, and Battle Ladder.
Seriously, I have seen some hardcore shield hate, and it frustrates me.
When using a heavy shield as a primary weapon you can do TWF with a light weapon in your off-hand for some extra damage.
One thing which is slightly unclear to me is whether or not Shield Proficiency would allow you to attack with shields without a -4 penalty for not being proficient with martial weapons. This could be an issue for a number of classes such as Bard and Cleric which know how to use shields to improve their AC but might not be skilled at attacking with them.
No, a shield can be used as a primary weapon.
Just like normal weapons, because the shield is a weapon.
You can even wield a heavy shield with two hands, for x1.5 strength to damage, like every other one-handed weapon.
The drawback of a shield bash, is the loss of the shield bonus to AC.
That's it.
Otherwise, as I stated, and as it is stated in RAW, it's a weapon.
Your RAW interpretation entails quite a lot of disregarding the actual rules text.
The shield is a shield, which can be used as a weapon. It even specifies when and how it can be used as a weapon.
Throughout the rulebook, whether in special materials, in the tables for readying shield/weapons, or the rules for item hardness, shields are treated as something distinct from weapons, being a subgroup of armors.
The fact that shields is included in the weapons table doesn't translate into "Shields are weapons in all respects". In fact the shield bash text explains why they are included (for damage).
The whole notion of 2-handed shields being possible is even more absurd. It disregards both common sense and rules for how armor and shields are worn. It has even less to do with the real world weapons you talk about (unless you start treating it as an improvised weapon).
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In general, I don't like to bash anyone's weapon choices.I am not bashing the example weapons.
I am just conveying the fact that, in the real world, no one would use them, unlike shields, which have historically been used as weapons.
That wasn't a criticism. I was agreeing with your complaint about people who say that shield bashing is wrongbadfun. And also trying to make a bad pun.
Shield descriptions back up bbt's statement:
Used this way, a light shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a light shield as a light weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its Armor Class bonus until your next turn.
Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its Armor Class bonus until your next turn.
Two-handing a heavy shield is strange, but there's nothing that says you can't do it, probably by bracing with your off-hand. It might even be a realistic position in some situations - the bracing action reminds me a bit of a Tai Chi pose.
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Here is an official FAQ for the Core Rulebook. In it there is a section about Shield Bash.
Shield Bash: If I make a shield bash (page 152), does it always have to be an off-hand attack?The text for a shield bash assumes you're making a bash as an off-hand attack, but you don't have to. You can, for example, just make a shield bash attack (at your normal, main-hand attack bonus) or shield bash with your main hand and attack with a sword in your off-hand.
Update: Page 152—In the Shield Bash Attacks section, in the first sentence, delete “using it as an off-hand weapon.”
—Sean K Reynolds, 08/31/11
A lot of questions can be answered in the FAQ, it's a good place to start.
In season 1 of Game of Thrones, the Imp kills some dude with a shield used 2-handed. Remember that using light weapons with two hands doesn't provide any benefit, so only heavy shields can get extra Str and Power Attack damage for being used 2-handed.
An OK setup might be to carry a heavy shield in one hand and wear a spiked gauntlet on the other. You could use the shield with both hands on a charge, cleave, vital strike etc (maybe even with Furious Focus) and then do TWF with the shield and gauntlet when you're in close and the foe has a low AC. This could work out well for somebody with bonus damage from sneak attack, smite evil, or maybe even the challenge ability of a whiny Cavalier with a shield and no sword.
Sure, there are better weapons you could use with the off-hand, but the spiked gauntlet leaves your hand free for casting spells, snatching arrows , making obscene gestures, etc. Having a light piercing weapon "on hand" all the time is also great for when you get swallowed whole.