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I see a problem with the gun combos mentioned, re: the hand switching or taking the iterative attacks with just the main hand then those with the offhand.
By some of the interpretations, it would follow that my TWF melee guy can attack with his best sword with his right hand, then switch that weapon to his left to use again. Perhaps several times.
Not cool, even worse with iterative attacks on both sides.
Even if you only get one switch/round, you could do this if players can change the order of attacks.
So I'd say attacks go in order +x (main hand)/+x (offhand)/+x-5(main hand)/+x-5 (offhand)/etc.
It'd be hard to argue they couldn't switch once though...I don't see loading as a fine action (and there is no RAW re: PFS).
(Luckily, I have yet to see a Gunslinger in play.)
@nosig: Rapid Shot & TWF can be used together (for cumulative -4/attack) for 3 attacks/round if you like (w/ Quickdraw). It's really cool to have lots of knives flying (even if they miss).
yeah (posting as PC) - it's all about the knives.
25 carried/named/tracked and used. (so far, I plan to buy more).harder to do with a Rogue build... but that's the Knifemaster.
There are (only) two free actions that I've had occasion to limit.
I've had some players that have a bad case of analysis paralysis. Some table talk is ok, but too much is bad and IN CHARACTER table talk is one of the free actions I limit. If we're in initiative, you get about two sentences and if it's not your turn, you get about one. No lengthy scholarly debates about exactly what your character's doing, but you can call out to another character, have them answer, and respond to the answer. But the Gettysburg Address is right out. Out of character RULES RELATED questions are fine, but not game-delaying rules debates.
The other is certain magic items that are a free action to activate or deactivate. You don't get to toggle it on and off as many times as you like, but toggling it once is free. Sure, it's a free action to throw that light switch, but it's a compact flourescent, not a strobe. Do not name your bard travolta and call your bardic dance performance "Disco".
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I see people talking as if TWF lets you double your attacks, so that with iterative attacks you get a main hand attack AND an off hand attack for each iterative. However,
Two-Weapon Fighting
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways. First, if your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light. Second, the Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6.
It isn't stated, but since you can do two weapon fighting at first level, clearly the intent is that the extra attack is at your highest attack bonus. So a 6th level fighter with TWF and a light off hand weapon would get three attacks, not four:
Main hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)Off hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)
Main hand -1 (BAB +1, -2 for TWF)
Is there something I'm missing that lets you do more?
[Edited for clarity]
So a 6th level fighter with TWF and a light off hand weapon would get three attacks, not four:
Main hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)
Off hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)
Main hand -1 (BAB +1, -2 for TWF)Is there something I'm missing that lets you do more?
[Edited for clarity]
IMPROVED two weapon fighting is available to a 6th level fighter
Main hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)
Off hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)
Main hand -1 (BAB +1, -2 for TWF)
Off hand -1 (BAB +6 -5 for ITWF, -2 for TWF)
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I generally only allow one, but that's only for free actions which are totally separate from anything else. For example, I don't count drawing multiple arrows from a quiver, or drawing a weapon as part of a move action. I may allow more than one in some situation but one has to keep in mind that we're talking about six seconds TOTAL for the round and all those other actions are taking up time.
The main issue I have with this relates to nerfing a specific class that essentially becomes unplayable after 5th level if you do this.
The Gunslinger. The whole intent of allowing reloads as a free action is so that a Gunslinger can keep up with Archers in attack economy and damage per round.
But if you limit a gunslinger to 1 free action, then they will never be able to do more than 2 attacks per round with their firearm.
And essentially means you are playing a 5th level or lower character as far as action economy goes for the rest of their career.
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IMPROVED two weapon fighting is available to a 6th level fighter
Main hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)
Off hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)
Main hand -1 (BAB +1, -2 for TWF)
Off hand -1 (BAB +6 -5 for ITWF, -2 for TWF)
Wow, I was completely unaware of ITWF, thanks for the reference. My two weapon wielding rogue will be interested in this soon.
However, the feat says
In addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a –5 penalty.
Why are you stacking the -5 from ITWF with the -2 from TWF? Wouldn't it just be the -5?
The -5 is fixed, and makes the attack conform to the iterative attack standard of BAB-5. The -2 depends on what sort of weapon you're weilding in that off hand and applies to ALL attacks made that turn, per the TWF feat.
When you get to BAB +11, you can get GREATER Two Weapon Fighting and get a third extra attack at -10.
If you have the whole feat tree, you get an off-hand attack that mirrors your main hand attack at the cost of all attacks getting the -2 (assuming off-hand light weapon) all the way up to a BAB of +16. I don't know of an EVEN GREATER TWF feat that would get you a fourth off-hand attack, but that's not to say there might not be one in the future.
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IMPROVED two weapon fighting is available to a 6th level fighter
Main hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)
Off hand +4 (BAB +6, -2 for TWF)
Main hand -1 (BAB +1, -2 for TWF)
Off hand -1 (BAB +6 -5 for ITWF, -2 for TWF)
Wow, I was completely unaware of ITWF, thanks for the reference. My two weapon wielding rogue will be interested in this soon.
However, the feat says
In addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a –5 penalty.Why are you stacking the -5 from ITWF with the -2 from TWF? Wouldn't it just be the -5?
Basically what happens when you get two weapon fighting, is you get a second attack for a -2 penalty to both attacks.
When you start getting iterative attacks, you still get your primary iterative attacks, but you’ll notice that each iterative attack is at -5 from the first one. This iterative attack will also receive the -2 because you got the extra attack with the off-hand.
When high enough level, you can start taking the Improved Two-weapon fighting and Greater Two-Weapon fighting, to gain your iterative attacks with your off hand. Thus the -5 in addition to the -2 for using two-weapon fighting.
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I generally only allow one, but that's only for free actions which are totally separate from anything else. For example, I don't count drawing multiple arrows from a quiver, or drawing a weapon as part of a move action. I may allow more than one in some situation but one has to keep in mind that we're talking about six seconds TOTAL for the round and all those other actions are taking up time.The main issue I have with this relates to nerfing a specific class that essentially becomes unplayable after 5th level if you do this.
The Gunslinger. The whole intent of allowing reloads as a free action is so that a Gunslinger can keep up with Archers in attack economy and damage per round.
But if you limit a gunslinger to 1 free action, then they will never be able to do more than 2 attacks per round with their firearm.
And essentially means you are playing a 5th level or lower character as far as action economy goes for the rest of their career.
Andrew I disagree.
Double barrel pistols.
PM if you want a detailed review and detailed enforcement results. Mechanically I think the problem is with paper cartridges.
Until a official Faq comes out, let's have GM's at their table figure out what they think is fitting.
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I generally only allow one, but that's only for free actions which are totally separate from anything else. For example, I don't count drawing multiple arrows from a quiver, or drawing a weapon as part of a move action. I may allow more than one in some situation but one has to keep in mind that we're talking about six seconds TOTAL for the round and all those other actions are taking up time.The main issue I have with this relates to nerfing a specific class that essentially becomes unplayable after 5th level if you do this.
The Gunslinger. The whole intent of allowing reloads as a free action is so that a Gunslinger can keep up with Archers in attack economy and damage per round.
But if you limit a gunslinger to 1 free action, then they will never be able to do more than 2 attacks per round with their firearm.
And essentially means you are playing a 5th level or lower character as far as action economy goes for the rest of their career.
Andrew I disagree.
Double barrel pistols.
PM if you want a detailed review and detailed enforcement results. Mechanically I think the problem is with paper cartridges.
Until a official Faq comes out, let's have GM's at their table figure out what they think is fitting.
I agree that each GM has the right to determine what’s fitting at their table.
I’m just giving the realities of what this specific choice does to the class.
And you should not be required to own a specific type of equipment above and beyond the free one the class gives you, to make full use of the abilities the class gives you. Requiring me to spend 2,000 gp to use my iterative attacks above and beyond the 2,300 it costs for a magical weapon, to me, still neuters the class.
My suggestion is, if you want to limit free actions, allow a gunslinger to have enough free actions to get all their iterative attacks +1 (for Rapid Shot).
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The main issue I have with this relates to nerfing a specific class that essentially becomes unplayable after 5th level if you do this.The Gunslinger. The whole intent of allowing reloads as a free action is so that a Gunslinger can keep up with Archers in attack economy and damage per round.
But if you limit a gunslinger to 1 free action, then they will never be able to do more than 2 attacks per round with their firearm.
And essentially means you are playing a 5th level or lower character as far as action economy goes for the rest of their career.
Andrew I disagree.
Double barrel pistols.
PM if you want a detailed review and detailed enforcement results. Mechanically I think the problem is with paper cartridges.
Until a official Faq comes out, let's have GM's at their table figure out what they think is fitting.
While I agree that double barrel pistols can lead to extreme corner cases where unlimited free actions can be very broken, the mechanics for those weapons do inflict a penalty for, and take into account, the disadvantage of trying to fire both barrels at the same time (-4/-4 and can only be against the same target for both shots).
It's not something I would ever argue with a GM about during a game (or even within earshot of other players post-game), but just thinking about the last time I played my gunslinger (who was one level shy of having his iterative attacks so there wasn't a specific need to bring it up that night), limiting a gunslinger to one free-action reload whereas an archer gets unlimited free-action reloads (for iterative attacks as well as rapid shot and many shot) is actually "class discrimination".
Whether it's a 1/100 case or a 1/1000 case, it's still giving unfair disadvantage to players who are following the rules out of a core-assumption PFRPG book.
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Double barrel pistols.PM if you want a detailed review and detailed enforcement results. Mechanically I think the problem is with paper cartridges.
Until a official Faq comes out, let's have GM's at their table figure out what they think is fitting.
PS - My above post being said, even as a gunslinger player, I would be totally fine if double barrel weapons were removed.
Paper cartridges, I don't have as much of a problem with - they're "slid down the barrel" and are pre-packed with powder/shot, and when the flintlock snaps, it lights the paper -> powder -> shoots. Dropping a single object down the barrel of a muzzle-loaded weapon with a free hand would be lots quicker than pouring powder, wadding, bullet, which can be done as a move action with the rapid reload feat.
...just don't get me started on the whole "weapon cord dangling firearm reloading it with the same hand it's dangling from" thing - even as a gunslinger player I think that needs to be nipped in the bud post-haste.
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Indeed, imposing a rule specifically to keep a class from doing what its class features allow it to do is essentially banning a class.
What class feature? Either use a rule that is in the CRB, as opposed to ignoring the rule.
About 50% of this discussion is about gunslingers and using TWF and free actions or a combo of double barrelled pistols. Neither of which is a class feature.
Furthermore personally think that these differences are huge. If you allow unilimited free actions, or even allow more than one you allow a player to mimic 2 other weapons the pepperbox or a revolver. Without the restrictions of actually purchasing them. I am not a fan of a revolver but if it was legal 50% of this discussion would not exist.
I would also mention that I have 2 gunslingers a level seven non PFS and a level 2 PFS it is easy for a gunslinger to go off the deep end on action economy. My non PFS gunslinger never starts a combat with loaded firearms. My PFS gunslinger tries to never shoot more than a single shot in a combat, closing in when possible.
I have seen every legal archetype of a gunslinger as a GM, as well as a couple that wanted to double barreled pistols from 2-4 shots below level 6 each and every round. A single rule that is in the CRB limiting reloads can drop the shots per round to 2-4 but will force a couple move actions to reload. So the character will have to commit to staying in an area as he starts unleahing bullets. Also selective targeting comes up when he realizes he can't drop 4 rounds in a target each and every round.
In my experience this really isn't a huge game changer or really a ban on the gunslinger. I feel it really helps the game table as a whole.
YMMV
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Because you, and maybe others, self-restrict a gunslinger, does not mean it should be done that way for everyone.
Shooting a firearm is THE class feature of a gunslinger. Otherwise you might as well just create a fighter.
Adding feats to make you shoot your firearm better is no different than an archer doing the same for firing a bow.
But a class should not be restricted from using legal feats and class features because someone thinks it is unbalanced.
Two-weapon fighting, rapid shot, et. al. would not have been made legal with firearms, if they weren’t intended to be usable with firearms. And saying you gotta buy a double barreled firearm to use those feats is silly in my mind.
If you want to restrict loading a firearm with weapon cords, the rules support such.
But a gunslinger using a single gun is not any better than an archer, the math has been proven over and over.
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But now you are adding your version of realism (no matter how actually realistic it is—which your version fits my version of realism fairly well) into a fantasy world where many things are impossible in our world yet commonplace within the game.
Ranged feats and the ability to reload as a free action were not made legal with firearms so that you could only get one extra attack. They were made legal with firearms, of any firearm technology, so that a gunslinger could stack up to an archer.
FYI: Archers can use a sword too, and pretty nicely might I add.
Restricting to 1 free action in a round, where you determine what free actions actually mean for your “one” free action, is essentially restricting only gunslingers, as that’s about the only use of iterative free actions that I can see needing such a restriction.
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Rapid Reload from UC.
Rapid Reload (Combat)
Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, heavy) or a single type of one-handed or two-handed firearm that you are proficient with. You can reload such a weapon quickly.
Prerequisites: Weapon Proficiency (crossbow type chosen) or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm).
Benefit: The time required for you to reload your chosen type of weapon is reduced to a free action (for a hand or light crossbow), a move action (for heavy crossbow or one-handed firearm), or a standard action (two-handed firearm). Reloading a crossbow or firearm still provokes attacks of opportunity.
If you have selected this feat for a hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.
Normal: A character without this feat needs a move action to reload a hand or light crossbow, a standard action to reload a one-handed firearm, or a full-round action to load a heavy crossbow or a two-handed firearm.
Special: You can gain Rapid Reload multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of crossbow or a new type of firearm.
Note Firearm's and full attack options are not included.
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The other problem is that gunslinger players seem to have a deliberate ignorance of the fact that the class DOES have non gun weapon proficiencies and a FULL BAB score with that. If you're using flintlocks, you pack at least three of them eventually. And then you learn to go to sword after you've shot them all.
If you want guns to operate the way you seem to desire, you're really looking for a campaign that allows advanced firearms.
Rather than resorting to accusing "gunslinger players" of deliberately ignoring things in the class they've chosen to play, how about acknowledging that someone who chooses to play a gunslinger does so because they want to, simply put, "sling guns".
That's like saying a zen archer player is deliberately ignorant of the fact that the class has access to other weapons beyond bows, and that they should be willing to forego their primary weapon and go to something the player maybe didn't have the points to build for.
Yes, in real-life, arrows can be fired faster than a flintlock can be reloaded and shot, but the gunslinger pays for that in gold. There isn't any more metal in a flintlock bullet than there is in an arrowhead, and the archer has a 50% chance of recovering arrows under certain circumstances whereas the gunslinger has 0. In addition to that, gunslingers have a 10% misfire chance when using alchemical cartridges which cost 6gp per shot (minimum), also unrecoverable. They also take penalties for using multiple barrels, whereas archers take less of a penalty for multishot. They also take longer to build up the resources to acquire an enchanted firearm to overcome X/magic DRs that are more likely to be found at higher levels. I could go on, but the summary is that a gunslinger player has to put much more thought, planning, and investment into their class in order to be competitive with other classes that do the same thing - damage at range with a weapon that the class is named for.
I know that the topic of free actions per turn rapidly becomes a topic about gunslingers, but as nosig posted above, there have been thoughts in the (recent) past about limiting parts of gunslingers, and after looking things over between Mike Brock and the VOs, they decided not to do so.
So how about just letting players run with what's in the books, in the world/campaign setting, and in the rules as legal?
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Rapid Reload from UC.
*snip*
If you have selected this feat for a hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.
Normal: A character without this feat needs a move action to reload a hand or light crossbow, a standard action to reload a one-handed firearm, or a full-round action to load a heavy crossbow or a two-handed firearm.
Note Firearm's and full attack options are not included.
Chris - you're right, but that's because Rapid Reload by itself only brings the firearm to a move-action, not a free action like it does for the crossbow.
By your logic, the implication of the Rapid Reload feat is that if you can reload your weapon as a free action, you can "fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow." Which means when a gunslinger adds an alchemical cartridge to the Rapid Reload mix (and thus, reloads as a free action), they too can do the same.
In essence, you just made the point that gunslingers with the right combination of equipment/feats are allowed to fire as many times in a full-attack action as you could as if using a bow.
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What I ment to imply is there is a huge difference between Rapid reload with crossbows and firearms.
Feats are implace to modify rules.
If you have selected this feat for a hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.
It does not mention mention free actions it circumvents the free action.
Time for someone to get this FAQ'd.
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Just posting this so we don't lose perspective (emphasis mine) -
Guns are one of the most controversial subjects in fantasy gaming. GM and player opinions run the gamut from staunch traditionalists who refuse to wield any weapon more complex than a crossbow to gaming groups who believe that the best way to stop a raging orc chieftain is to unload all six cylinders of your trusty revolver into his gray-green hide.
Neither side is wrong. Firearms are best introduced carefully, but are by no means game-breaking on their own. Neither are they necessarily anachronistic—much of scientific discovery is based on chance, and nothing says that breakthroughs in your fantasy world have to occur at the same historical points as they did on Earth, or even that they need to occur simultaneously across your world. On Earth, the Chinese had fully functional cannons, flamethrowers, and land mines before Europeans had even discovered gunpowder. It's entirely possible to have guns exist alongside bows and swords in neighboring countries, or even within the same one. Depending on the rate of fire of your firearm, there are undoubtedly many situations in which a warrior armed with a simpler weapon would win the day.
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Rapid reload UC
If you have selected this feat for a hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.
No mention of firearms. Faq would help.
Capacity: A firearm's capacity is the number of shots it can hold at one time. When making a full-attack action, you may fire a firearm as many times in a round as you have attacks, up to this limit, unless you can reload the weapon as a swift or free action while making a full-attack action. In the case of early firearms, capacity often indicates the number of barrels a firearm has. In the case of advanced firearms, it typically indicates the number of chambers the weapon has.
Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Pullman
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Rapid reload UC
If you have selected this feat for a hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.
No mention of firearms. Faq would help.
Loading a Firearm: You need at least one hand free to load one-handed and two-handed firearms. In the case of two-handed firearms, you hold the weapon in one hand and load it with the other—you only need to hold it in two hands to aim and shoot the firearm. Loading siege firearms requires both hands, and one hand usually manipulates a large ramrod (which can be wielded as a club in combat).
The Rapid Reload feat reduces the time required to load one-handed and two-handed firearms, but this feat does not reduce the time it takes to load siege firearms.
Loading any firearm provokes attacks of opportunity.
Other rules for loading a firearm depend on whether the firearm is an early firearm or an advanced firearm.
Early Firearms: Early firearms are muzzle-loaded, requiring bullets or pellets and black powder to be rammed down the muzzle. If an early firearm has multiple barrels, each barrel must be loaded separately. It is a standard action to load each barrel of a one-handed early firearm and a full-round action to load each barrel of a two-handed early firearm. It takes three full-round actions by one person to load a siege firearm. This can be reduced to two full-round actions if more than one person is loading the cannon.
Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms are chamber-loaded. It is a move action to load a one-handed or two-handed advanced firearm to its full capacity.
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Capacity: A firearm's capacity is the number of shots it can hold at one time. When making a full-attack action, you may fire a firearm as many times in a round as you have attacks, up to this limit, unless you can reload the weapon as a swift or free action while making a full-attack action. In the case of early firearms, capacity often indicates the number of barrels a firearm has. In the case of advanced firearms, it typically indicates the number of chambers the weapon has.
In echo of Chris - thanks Paz!
As I read it, that leaves only one last related-item in the gray area here: double-barrel weapons (since they allow both barrels to be used as part of a standard action).
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I am curious how many free actions per a character's turn my fellow GM's allow.
In the rules the number of free actions is up to the discretion of the GM, and some equipment notes have listed implied limitations.
One good example is the quickdraw shield. I had one player saying he could unready it, attack with a two-handed weapon, and then ready it again in the same round (quick draw is a supporting feat).
The item note declares "you may don or put away" the quickdraw shield as a free action. I limited it to one or the other per round as a 'limiting' or ... But it both your hands are full, with what are you readying the shield? The ready shield and weapon on the move makes sense. The 'dressing' and 'undressing' weapon-wielding fighters don't!
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Free action, unready shield.
free action, switch grip to two handed
full action, attack
Free action, switch grip to hold weapon in one handed
free action, re equip shield (has on free hand at this point.
I'd have issues with allowing the free action to re-equip at the end. The rest of it sounds kosher, but that feels like a big ask to quickly unready and then full attack, and then somehow quickly re-ready all in one action.
I don't think the intent with a free action on the quickdraw shield is to allow you to unready and re-ready it - it's just to let you take a free action to do one or the other.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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Free action, unready shield.
free action, switch grip to two handed
full action, attack
Free action, switch grip to hold weapon in one handed
free action, re equip shield (has on free hand at this point.I'd have issues with allowing the free action to re-equip at the end. The rest of it sounds kosher, but that feels like a big ask to quickly unready and then full attack, and then somehow quickly re-ready all in one action.
I don't think the intent with a free action on the quickdraw shield is to allow you to unready and re-ready it - it's just to let you take a free action to do one or the other.
That is the same amount of free actions as a 6th level fighter with haste and Rapid Shot taking a full attack with a longbow.
It is half the amount of free actions as a 6th level fighter with haste, Rapid Reload, and Rapid Shot taking a full attack with a light crossbow.
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I do not limit free actions at all unless something particularly abusive is taking place, or a player is simply trying to tack on as many actions per turn as possible to be cute (this has happened before).
Of particular note to me is gunslingers reloading double-barrel firearms when they have the appropriate feats / class features / equipment to make it a free action. I know at least one formally local GM who hardcapped the number of reloads they could make in a round, and that really bugged me.
For what it is worth, note that the above comment comes from someone who really dislikes almost every aspect of that class mechanically. (i.e, same stat for ranged hit and damage, touch attacks, double-barrel firearms doubling attacks nonsense, singature deed + up close and deadly, evasion and improved uncanny dodge as one deed in particular)
A lot of people use the terms "Campaign", "Module", and "Scenario" interchangeably. This leads to much confusion among those who are aware of the distinctions.
As a casual player with admittedly fuzzy definition of the terms above, I'd definitely like some clarification. Link, or whatnot?
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That is the same amount of free actions as a 6th level fighter with haste and Rapid Shot taking a full attack with a longbow.
It is half the amount of free actions as a 6th level fighter with haste, Rapid Reload, and Rapid Shot taking a full attack with a light crossbow.
Correct, but you're talking about a character who is qualified to make full attacks, and has taken two feats to make themselves better at it.
The quickdraw shield character is just a guy who bought a shield with some effectiveness to it.
The point is that you can't put a Perfect Number on how many free actions it makes sense to take, because with different situations, it changes.
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A lot of people use the terms "Campaign", "Module", and "Scenario" interchangeably. This leads to much confusion among those who are aware of the distinctions.As a casual player with admittedly fuzzy definition of the terms above, I'd definitely like some clarification. Link, or whatnot?
I think this is what you're after. "Campaigns" are the same as Adventure Paths.
In terms of length, a scenario is shortest, a module is basically a long scenario, and an AP can take days to weeks.
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That is the same amount of free actions as a 6th level fighter with haste and Rapid Shot taking a full attack with a longbow.
It is half the amount of free actions as a 6th level fighter with haste, Rapid Reload, and Rapid Shot taking a full attack with a light crossbow.
Correct, but you're talking about a character who is qualified to make full attacks, and has taken two feats to make themselves better at it.
The quickdraw shield character is just a guy who bought a shield with some effectiveness to it.
The point is that you can't put a Perfect Number on how many free actions it makes sense to take, because with different situations, it changes.
Okay, how about "6th level Bard with haste and Rapid Shot."
That'll be 3 free actions for loading the bow; one free action to maintain Inspire Courage. Oh, and another free action for speaking. ;)
@Lekku: Campaign is a full story, whether a full Adventure Path, or something put together by the GM. Usually takes months or longer to run out.
Scenario: 4-5 hour standalone adventure for PFS.
Module: Usually an 8-12 hour adventure for Pathfinder that covers a series of events, usually giving enough XP for a full level.
Free RPG Day module: Shorter adventure, usually falls into a 4 hour time period, designed to introduce players to Pathfinder. Given away for free via the Free RPG Day annual event. Paizo's are available, for free, later, as PDFs.
Thanks!
I would rarely limit free actions, and definitely not for the gunslinger reloading his weapon. But why anyone would allow a character to reload a weapon they aren't holding is beyond me, no matter how short your silly bungee cord. Also, the way I read RAI, you wouldn't be able to use a hand with a weapon cord on another weapon, so I wouldn't allow you to load your gun with the hand with a sharp objext dangling from it either.
But a gunslinger with just his gun in hand? Shoot away.
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That is the same amount of free actions as a 6th level fighter with haste and Rapid Shot taking a full attack with a longbow.
It is half the amount of free actions as a 6th level fighter with haste, Rapid Reload, and Rapid Shot taking a full attack with a light crossbow.
Correct, but you're talking about a character who is qualified to make full attacks, and has taken two feats to make themselves better at it.
The quickdraw shield character is just a guy who bought a shield with some effectiveness to it.
The point is that you can't put a Perfect Number on how many free actions it makes sense to take, because with different situations, it changes.
Okay, how about "6th level Bard with haste and Rapid Shot."
That'll be 3 free actions for loading the bow; one free action to maintain Inspire Courage. Oh, and another free action for speaking. ;)
I don't know if you recognise that I'm trying to say it's a moot discussion until you're in the game, or if you're genuinely interested in what I'd do :) But that's the topic of the thread, so:
Loading a bow is part of the full attack, which the character is qualified to do. Same with Haste, which is also magic, so free time ahoy according to its rules.
Maintaining inspire courage is fine, I think the idea here is that you're performing while you're doing everything else.
And talking is talking. Tactical talking should be reasonably limited, flavour talking has the rule of cool going for it. Both happen during the course of the round.
