Anyone see a problem with replacing Nualia's Power Attack feat with Step Up? It would definitely fit into her "in your face" style of combat.
I like that! Consider it "stolen". :)
Same here!
As she doesn't qualify for PA in the first place that is a nice in-theme change!
Ruyan.
Headless lord...
I still think this is wrong (with the updates applied as per earlier).
I get - he has 2 too many feats or I'm not sure where he gets them from,
his HPS are low (should be 129 by my calcs) both minor.
He should have DR 5/magic (not DR 10/magic)
He can also have a Gauntlet attack (if disarmed) from his full plate:
Gauntlet (from armor) +20/+15 1d4+11
I also get his AC at 33/11(touch)/31(flat footed)
10 + 10(armor) + 12(natural) + 2(dex) -1(size)
The stats he has all include the desicration aura ability he has, which isn't really mentioned.
The headless lord has 12 feats, which is correct. 6 are from its 12 HD, 4 are fighter bonus feats, Toughness is from the zombie template, and Command Undead is from the undead lord template.
HP is also correct; 48 from CHA, 12 from Toughness, 6 from favored class, plus 6d8 (average 27), plus 6d10 (average 33).
DR is correct as well; the undead lord template grants DR 10/magic if the creature has 8 or more HD, which it has.
As for the gauntlet attack, that's right, but statblocks don't typically include attacks the creature wouldn't normally have any reason to use.
A large-sized zombie gets natural armor of 3, plus 4 from the undead lord template, for a total of 7 natural armor (the zombie NA replaces the base creature's NA, it doesn't add to it).
Since Paizo's statblocks always include bonuses from abilities that always apply, not specifically mentioning that the bonuses from the desecrate aura are pre-applied isn't an error.
I know there are 4 bonus fighter feats - not counting command undead - I think I mis-applied the toughness feat. Perhaps I'm missing something but I'll need to go over my notes.
HP - 6d8(30)+6d10+(33)+66 = 129.
Perhaps I'm doing it wrong? Not sure -
The DR I missed - thank you for pointing that out. Same with the natural armor - I didn't realize it was intended to supersede the base creature.
As to the 'abilities that always apply' - I know that's what is said - I just find that isn't *always* the case. Sometimes they are applied - sometimes they aren't - sometimes (like the giant a room or two prior) they have power attack applied but only half way - this particular guy is built with alot of bonus types - so that's the reason I was re-working him to begin win (because when I can't make sense of it - that's the only way to figure out if it's broken or correct) - in many other creatures a spell being active (such as shield or heroism) is noted - but not every time - a note in the stat block saying 'applied' or consistency would help here. Particularly unusual bonuses especially.
I'll check my feats again when I have a chance - but appreciate the other information - I will say this - deconstructing monsters has taught me quite a bit about the rules and such! :) /cheers
HP - 6d8(30)+6d10+(33)+66 = 129.
Perhaps I'm doing it wrong? Not sure -
1d8 is average 4.5; 6x4.5 = 27, not 30. I'm guessing you're counting a full 8 for the first HD, but a creature only gets full hp for the first HD if that HD is a class level.
As to the 'abilities that always apply' - I know that's what is said - I just find that isn't *always* the case. Sometimes they are applied - sometimes they aren't - sometimes (like the giant a room or two prior) they have power attack applied but only half way - this particular guy is built with alot of bonus types - so that's the reason I was re-working him to begin win (because when I can't make sense of it - that's the only way to figure out if it's broken or correct) - in many other creatures a spell being active (such as shield or heroism) is noted - but not every time - a note in the stat block saying 'applied' or consistency would help here. Particularly unusual bonuses especially.
I agree it would be useful if there was some sort of note stating "this/these are already applied".
In general, I've found that things that are always on and always applicable are pre-applied, while things that may or may not be applicable (such as protection from good; not all PCs are good, after all) won't be pre-applied. Likewise abilities that can be activated or not (such as Power Attack) won't be pre-applied, since the monster/NPC won't always use it.
For instance, neither the trolls on page 221 nor the giant on page 218 have Power Attack pre-applied.
I deconstruct statblocks all the time myself as well. As you say, there are some times errors, usually minor but some times fairly major (in one case the NPC's attacks were at -4 compared to what they should have been, likely due to applying STR instead of DEX despite the NPC having Weapon Finesse).
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1d8 is average 4.5; 6x4.5 = 27, not 30. I'm guessing you're counting a full 8 for the first HD, but a creature only gets full hp for the first HD if that HD is a class level.
And only if it's a PC-class level :)
Also I wanna mention that even if he is disarmed, rather than a gauntlet he'd be more apt to using his 2 slam attacks he gets for being a fast zombie.
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Regarding Xanesha, it might also be worth noting the Lamia Matriarch Special Abilities so they don't accidentally get overlooked. Xanesha's DC for her Wisdom drain is DC 23 instead of the standard DC 21.
Should probably also note this for Lucrecia, too (with the appropriate DC, of course).
It should also be noted that this Will save is only applicable to the Wisdom drain that results from them using a melee weapon in a full attack, NOT the 1d4 Wisdom Drain from their melee touch attack, which is automatic on a hit.
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It should also be noted that this Will save is only applicable to the Wisdom drain that results from them using a melee weapon in a full attack, NOT the 1d4 Wisdom Drain from their melee touch attack, which is automatic on a hit.Regarding Xanesha, it might also be worth noting the Lamia Matriarch Special Abilities so they don't accidentally get overlooked. Xanesha's DC for her Wisdom drain is DC 23 instead of the standard DC 21.
Should probably also note this for Lucrecia, too (with the appropriate DC, of course).
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Updated the Compiled Errata Document to reflect some of the recent errata.
Didn't update or mention Xanesha or Lucrecia's save DCs. Can someone clarify that:
a) There is a save against the Wisdom damage (and when)
b) It should be DC 21
The DC should be 23 instead of 21 because it is Charisma-based, and those two lovely ladies have Cha 25 instead of the 21 that their race normally has.
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People disagree..It should also be noted that this Will save is only applicable to the Wisdom drain that results from them using a melee weapon in a full attack, NOT the 1d4 Wisdom Drain from their melee touch attack, which is automatic on a hit.Regarding Xanesha, it might also be worth noting the Lamia Matriarch Special Abilities so they don't accidentally get overlooked. Xanesha's DC for her Wisdom drain is DC 23 instead of the standard DC 21.
Should probably also note this for Lucrecia, too (with the appropriate DC, of course).
Didn't know about that thread, I'll post a response in there as well, but I believe that people may be wrong. Look at the standard lamia in Bestiary 1. It doesn't even mention a Will save, and the only thing it has is the touch attack. It doesn't possess the ability to do 1 point of Wisdom drain with a melee weapon. It makes no sense that the standard lamia is more powerful than the matriarch, which tells me the matriarch has the same rules that the lamia does, but with its added ability of using a melee weapon it allows a save.
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Egna's statblock doesn't include her unraging stats.
Anyone want to take a crack and what they'd be?
Challenge Accepted!
Add the following to the bottom of Enga's Tactics section:
"Base Statistics When not raging, Enga's statistics are AC 23, touch 13, flat-footed 21; hp 119; Fort +11, Will +7; DR 2/-; Melee +3 shortspear +19/+14/+9 (1d4+5); Ranged sling +15 (1d3+2); Str 14, Con 12; CMB +13; CMD 25; Skills Swim +8."
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Hey Jester David, I went over your compiled errata document and noticed a few things I thought were missing or needed a closer look at (I also noticed some things I somehow missed in this thread and added them to my notes!). I'll put them in a spoiler below.
- Missing spell component pouch
Pg. 31 - Tsuto Kaijitsu
- I understand why you made the note about the languages, since Tsuto never grew up with elven influences and would have known Minkai instead of Elven, but strictly by the rules this isn't correct. Because of this I think having that part highlighted in yellow so as to be a suggestion to GMs would be more appropriate.
Pg. 36 - Koruvus
- His damage with his silver dagger should read "(1d4/19-20)." The -1 to damage for the weapon being silver wasn't applied. Also you mentioned he has Two-Weapon Fighting instead of Multiattack. Multiattack is for natural weapons, the feat he would need is Multiweapon Fighting.
Pgs. 38-39 - Erylium
- Not an error but more of an omission. She deals poison with her claws, which it mentions, but they didn't mention the stats for the poison in the stat block:
"Poison (Ex) Claw - injury; save Fortitude DC 13; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Dexterity; cure 2 consecutive saves."
- She's missing two languages. Normal quasits start with Abyssal and Common, and I understand if they replaced Common with Thassilonian since she's ancient and has been shut out from the changing world, but it probably makes sense to make one of her new languages Common. This is mainly for the fact that before combat, she shrieks out and accuses the PCs of "daring to intrude upon the Mother's sanctum." Now it's very possible that this is said in another language, but the text doesn't specify. Also before you mention she has a tongues effect, this is granted (and only when activated) by her tongues witch hex, which only allows her to understand any language. She won't be able to speak any language until 5th level of witch.
- She's missing her spell component pouch.
Pg. 43 - Tangletooth
- You mention putting his missing point into either Str or Dex will change his stats. It's actually Str or Con, since Dex is an even number.
Pgs. 43-44 - Gogmurt
- Gear should also include 10 sling bullets and a spell component pouch.
Pg. 49 - Thistletop Warchanter
- Missing spell component pouch.
Pgs. 52-53 - Bruthazmus
- Weapon Focus (composite longbow) should be changed to Weapon Focus (longbow) since this includes composite versions. I know this is minor, but it could confuse people who thought it was one way and seeing it "official" in another way could blah blah blah you see what I'm getting at.
Pg. 55 - Orik Vancaskerkin
- Gear should say "composite longbow [+3 Str]".
Pgs. 56-57 - Area D12: Chapel to Lamashtu
- In the description for this room, the first sentence of the second paragraph says Nualia prepares desecrate instead of cat's grace on days she holds service here. Since clerics don't have access to cat's grace this sentence should be reworded.
Pg. 59 - Lyrie Akenja
- Missing spell component pouch.
Pg. 61 - Nualia
- Like you did for the false life effect, you may want to mention that Nualia's stats have Fury of the Abyss factored in, but ONLY for AC. When using this power, her melee attack, melee damage, and CMB would all be +2 higher than the stat block lists.
- Not a numerical error, but a rules discrepancy. Nualia's During Combat information mentions she "activates her ferocious strike ability on the first six successful hits." This implies that this ability is activated AFTER an attack has been rolled and determined to be a success. The description in the APG, though, seems to say that the ability must be used BEFORE the attack roll, thereby wasting a use of it on a miss.
- Base Statistics should include "Init -1".
- Change her gear to say "masterwork composite longbow [+3 Str]".
- Missing spell component pouch
- Subdomains, second sentence should change "+2 bonus" to "+2 enhancement bonus." This is important if only because she's using a +1 bastard sword and it's useful to know that these bonuses won't stack.
- This isn't an error, per se, but Nualia has the Demon subdomain. This subdomain can replace powers and domain spells in either the Chaos domain OR the Evil domain. Lamashtu clerics have access to both these domains, so the question is, which domain is Demon modifying? It doesn't matter now, but if she escapes and shows up later with some additional cleric levels, it will matter knowing which domain Demon is altering. In the 3.5 version, she had the Evil domain.
Pg. 79 - Pidget Tergelson
- Also missing the favored class bonuses to hp (as the statblock tells us to use the stats for the wererat in the first Bestiary which has two levels of rogue). HP should be increased to 22.
Pgs. 80-81 - Erin Habe
- You mentioned he's missing a language, but you may want to highlight that in yellow. The three primary human ethnicities in Varisia are Varisian, Shoanti, and Chelaxian. If he's Chelaxian (and judging by his artwork alone, it's a fair guess he is), Common IS his ethnic language. This could also explain his lack of qualms employing two tieflings.
Pg. 82 - Caizarlu Zerren
- Has one more cantrip than he should. Choose one for deletion.
Pg. 107 - The Skinsaw Man
- I know he's "unique" but it's hard to determine how unique he is. For instance, his type is undead but then it mentions a subtype of human. The human subtype is supposed to be a subtype for the humanoid type only.
Pgs. 113-114 - Skinsaw Cultist
- You said their effective Cha score is 7 due to their masks. This isn't true. While yes the mask inflicts 1 point of Cha damage, that is not the same as drain. Their Charisma score would still be 8. The easiest way to think of it is to remember that in Pathfinder, drain affects the score, while damage and penalties affect the modifier, and only in even-numbered amounts. In other words, this guy has Cha 8. 1 point of drain would make that Cha 7. One point of damage, however, does nothing. 2 points of damage, though, changes it from a -1 modifier to a -2 modifier (because it only affects it in even-numbered amounts).
You may be saying, "That's stupid. What would be the point of something only dealing a single point of damage then if it does nothing?" Aside from giving additional ability damage a head start, it still counts for determining when a creature falls unconscious. For example, let's say a character has a Cha of 11 and a group of ninja with Cha-damaging poison decide to ruin his day. He takes 10 points of Cha damage from their attacks (yikes). His score is still 11, but he's now taking a -5 to all Charisma-based checks. Then, for whatever reason (maybe he took Int damage too), he dons a skinsaw mask. He immediately takes 1 point of Cha damage. Though it doesn't bring that -5 to a -6, it DOES bring his Cha damage total to 11, equaling his score, making him fall unconscious.
Pg. 117 - Justice Ironbriar
- Missing spell component pouch.
Pgs. 121-122 - Scarecrow
- Martial Weapon Proficiency should be changed to Martial Weapon Proficiency (scythe).
Pg. 124 - Xanesha
- You mentioned that her touch attack should be changed to +17. It's actually +16 (Large size wasn't factored in).
Pg 150 - Ogre Fighter
- Perception (both in Skills line and in Senses line) should be changed from +5 to +8. The fact that giants get Perception as a class skill automatically was overlooked.
Pgs. 158-159 - Lucrecia
- AC is wrong as it hasn't taken into account Two-Weapon Defense feat. It should read "AC 27, touch 14, flat-footed 22 (+4 armor, +1 shield, +5 Dex, +8 natural, -1 size)".
- HP is wrong, as it's taking into account the Sihedron medallion's false life effect, when that's supposed to be activated in the first round of combat, not before. A GM who doesn't know this will end up applying false life twice. HP should instead be "131 (14 HD; 12d10+2d6+58)".
- Because we're correcting her speed entry, Skills should add "Climb +15" and change Swim should be changed from +17 to +25.
Pg. 178 - Lamatar Bayden
- You mentioned that he can't cast barkskin on himself. You may want to elaborate and specifically say to reduce his AC to 26 (and his flat-footed to 21) since barkskin was cast prior to combat and has been taken into account in the statblock.
- Since you're recommending reducing Cha from 18 to 17, we need to adjust some of his stats since he's undead. HP should read "118 (12 HD; 4d8+8d10+56)". Fort save should be "+10".
Pg. 190 - Longtooth
- Attack line should specify 2 wing attacks, like the claws.
Pg. 220 - Seleval and Zaelsar
- You mention changing the attack line, but one thing you omitted when you were writing the replacement text was the word "touch" for the Wisdom drain attack. This is important when determining which AC it targets.
Pg. 225 - The Headless Lord
- You said his name in the Command Undead ability should be italicized. Did you mean capitalized?
Pg. 226 - Zombie Hill Giants
- In your highlighted blurb about what to do if making these guys fast zombies, you should mention CMD increases to 28.
Pg. 248 - Runeforge Lore table
- You mention deleting the DC 43 Knowledge check entry, but you should mention that the information it talks about is instead revealed with the DC 50 result.
Pg. 273 - Alu-demons
- Delete evasion from defensive abilities. These are a holdover from when they had rogue levels.
- CMB should be reduced to +17.
- CMD should be 31 (forgot the Dodge feat).
Pg. 320 - Bjormundal
- Con should be 23. Obviously won't effect any stats, but there ya go.
Pg. 338 - Ghlorofaex
- You increased the claw damage from +11 to +16 but it's actually the bite damage that gets this increase, as per dragons.
Pgs. 349-350 - Viorian Dekanti
- Heavy shield in the Melee line should be changed to "+5 heavy shield".
- You mentioned a change to the damage with the shield, but no change is needed. I know dogstarrb mentioned a change was needed here, but they're mistaken. Without Double Slice feat, the listed damage is correct. 4 (half Str) + 5 (enhancement bonus) + 3 (weapon group) = 12
- While it's true she doesn't have a Strength mod of +10 and doesn't make sense to have a composite bow with a strength rating that high, changing the bow to have a +9 Str rating WOULD change her attack rolls. Yes, I know dogstarrb, again, mentioned she's not taking an attack penalty for using a bow too strong for her here, but they're mistaken here as well. 18 (BAB) + 3 (Dex) + 1 (enhancement) + 1 (weapon group) - 2 (comp. bow Str too high) = 21.
Pg. 351 - Hungerers
- I noticed you were missing the mentioning of these creatures' stat changes thanks to their Sihedron rings, but then I found it at the END of your Spires of Xin-Shalast section of your doc, randomly hanging out by itself after the stuff about Karzoug and the wardens.
Pg. 371 - Sandpoint stat block
- This isn't technically an error, but it is interesting. Under Notable NPCs, Ameiko Kaijitsu is listed. She's marked as being an aristocrat 1/bard 3/rogue 1, but as of Pathfinder Comic (#1 I think) and possibly Shattered Star AP, she has the rake archetype, so "rogue 1" should be "rogue [rake] 1".
FWIW, the version of Ameiko’s stat-block with the rake archetype was actually provided in the first volume of the Jade Regent AP. ;)
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Hey Jester David, I went over your compiled errata document and noticed a few things I thought were missing or needed a closer look at (I also noticed some things I somehow missed in this thread and added them to my notes!). I'll put them in a spoiler below.
Thanks!
I’ll go through the list and edit them into my document.Some of the corrections are, of course, the result of me not consistently double-checking and just copying from the Message Board.
Not an error but more of an omission. She deals poison with her claws, which it mentions, but they didn't mention the stats for the poison in the stat block:
The poison being omitted is standard for generic monster abilities, but the DC should be mentioned in her Special Attack line, as her Con is higher than a standard quasit.
Pg. 82 - Caizarlu Zerren
Has one more cantrip than he should. Choose one for deletion.
Is that including his specialist spell?
Pgs. 113-114 - Skinsaw Cultist
You said their effective Cha score is 7 due to their masks. This isn't true. While yes the mask inflicts 1 point of Cha damage, that is not the same as drain. Their Charisma score would still be 8.
I’m aware of the rule.
I got caught when trying to condense the errata into a couple of lines from the longer descriptions from the forums and edited myself into a mistake.Pg. 225 - The Headless Lord
- You said his name in the Command Undead ability should be italicized. Did you mean capitalized?
Darn you autocorrect.
I was just looking at that the other day (running that encounter) and I wondered about that but couldn’t think what else I could have meant.Pg. 351 - Hungerers
- I noticed you were missing the mentioning of these creatures' stat changes thanks to their Sihedron rings, but then I found it at the END of your Spires of Xin-Shalast section of your doc, randomly hanging out by itself after the stuff about Karzoug and the wardens.
Oops. Copy/paste error.
Thank you for this btw :)
Page 319 - Svevenka has water walk listed as a level 3 druid spell - this spell is no longer on the druid spell list. Replace with sleet storm (a level 3 druid spell) She is listed as having 'call lightning' as a domain spell - this isn't a domain spell for water/ice - replace with water breathing.
Replaced Sleet Storm at level 4 with Ice Storm - the level 5 ice storm is a domain spell so I left that. Sleet Storm isn't on the water/ice domain list. the level 4 domain spell should be control water and it's already in the list (but not listed as domain).
6th. Control Winds is listed as a domain spell - but her domain is Ice (inherits from water) so this should be Cone of Cold
7th Freezing Sphere is a domain spell.
8th - no domain spell listed - so I replaced finger of death with Horrid Wilting (the correct domain spell)
I did double check the icy template that was applied - it doesn't modify the spell list.
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Page 319 - Svevenka has water walk listed as a level 3 druid spell - this spell is no longer on the druid spell list. Replace with sleet storm (a level 3 druid spell) She is listed as having 'call lightning' as a domain spell - this isn't a domain spell for water/ice - replace with water breathing.
Replaced Sleet Storm at level 4 with Ice Storm - the level 5 ice storm is a domain spell so I left that. Sleet Storm isn't on the water/ice domain list. the level 4 domain spell should be control water and it's already in the list (but not listed as domain).
6th. Control Winds is listed as a domain spell - but her domain is Ice (inherits from water) so this should be Cone of Cold
7th Freezing Sphere is a domain spell.
8th - no domain spell listed - so I replaced finger of death with Horrid Wilting (the correct domain spell)I did double check the icy template that was applied - it doesn't modify the spell list.
Actually for 8th level, the domain spell was whirlwind. It looks like they gave her the Weather domain and then applied the Ice domain changes over top of that, so the only domain spell that was correctly replaced was the 7th-level spell freezing sphere. If going strictly by-the-books, you'd want to replace whirlwind with horrid wilting.
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Pg. 319 - Svevenka
Ckorik bringing this up and me looking closely as to what domain was applied brought this to my attention, she's totally missing her icicle spell-like ability for having the water/ice domain! The question is though, does she use it as an 8th-level druid or a 15th-level druid? She has 8 levels of druid, but nymphs start casting spells as if they're 7th-level druids (that's the reason why she can cast up to 8th level spells). The nymph ability specifically says "A nymph casts spells as a 7th-level druid". So does that mean spell-like abilities are not included in this? Basically, one of the following lines need to be added between her Spell-Like Abilities line and her Spells Prepared line:
"Domain Spell-Like Abilities (CL 8th; concentration +14)
9/day - icicle"
OR
"Domain Spell-Like Abilities (CL 15th; concentration +21)
9/day - icicle"
Actually for 8th level, the domain spell was whirlwind. It looks like they gave her the Weather domain and then applied the Ice domain changes over top of that, so the only domain spell that was correctly replaced was the 7th-level spell freezing sphere. If going strictly by-the-books, you'd want to replace whirlwind with horrid wilting.
Is that allowed? The Ice domain is a subdomain of water - not weather. Sleet Storm and Freezing sphere actually make better sense for her anyway considering.
If that's true she should be listed as a variant shouldn't she?
I saw the dual entries - but was too tired to figure out which one was correct (re wild empathy).
Using the monster rules making a nymph with druid levels increases their effective druid level - so the spell likes should be 15th as far as I can figure out - otherwise she wouldn't have the higher level spells at all.
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The question is though, does she use it as an 8th-level druid or a 15th-level druid? She has 8 levels of druid, but nymphs start casting spells as if they're 7th-level druids (that's the reason why she can cast up to 8th level spells). The nymph ability specifically says "A nymph casts spells as a 7th-level druid". So does that mean spell-like abilities are not included in this?
It calls out spells not special abilities, so she should just have the special ability of a level 8 druid.
To get a second opinion and threw together a nymph druid in Hero Labs and it backed that up.Document updated.
I believe page 328 - Abominable Snowmen needs adjustment:
(not sure if this matters *but*)
Bite is a secondary attack - it has a -5 in it's to hit calculation so should be listed after the claws
(these are actual errors)
Bite should read
Bite +14 (1d6+4 plus 1d6 cold)
Rend should be primary damage + Str 1.5 the rend ability should change to:
rend (2 claws, 1d8+12 plus 1d6 cold)
The original line didn't account for the extra strength - or the improved natural attack feat. The cold ability from the base Yeti indicates that it works with any natural or unarmed attack - and rend - the yeti statblock also uses the cold damage in the rend.
Page 338 - Ghlorofaex
The attack line in the online document is still wrong - it should read:
Bite +29(6d6+16/19-20), 2 claws +29 (2d8+11), tail slap +24(2d8+16), 2 wings +24 (2d6+16)
interesting that the tail sweep under special attacks shows the correct damage.
Dragons get Bite + Str 1.5, Claw + Str, tail slap +Str 1.5, and wings + Str 1.5
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I believe page 328 - Abominable Snowmen needs adjustment:
(not sure if this matters *but*)
Bite is a secondary attack - it has a -5 in it's to hit calculation so should be listed after the claws(these are actual errors)
Bite should read
Bite +14 (1d6+4 plus 1d6 cold)
Rend should be primary damage + Str 1.5 the rend ability should change to:
rend (2 claws, 1d8+12 plus 1d6 cold)
The original line didn't account for the extra strength - or the improved natural attack feat. The cold ability from the base Yeti indicates that it works with any natural or unarmed attack - and rend - the yeti statblock also uses the cold damage in the rend.
There's another issue here. A quick google search of "Pathfinder Animal Fury" will show results of several different people over the last 5 years asking the same question: "Is animal fury still a secondary attack when it's being used with other natural attacks?" The premise of this question comes from the assumption that the Core Rulebook did what it does all the time - used misleading wording to explain something in an attempt to make it easier to understand and avoid players having to look up the additional rules in other books. In this case, the theory was that the Core Rulebook ASSUMED that every PC barbarian was walking around using manufactured weapons, and if this power adds a natural attack to their repertoire, telling them to simply subtract 5 from its attack and use half Str for damage when used together is much easier and space-saving than explaining how primary and secondary natural attacks work. As far as an official response to this goes, someone inevitably mentions that James Jacobs has commented on this issue and has confirmed that the bite attack does indeed stay primary when used with other natural weapons. The only time someone actually provided a link to the comment, however, following it just redirects you to the Paizo front page, meaning that thread either got moved or was deleted.
Honestly with the Core Rulebook's track record of wording stuff this way, I'm inclined to believe that these abominable snowmen should be treating their bite attacks as primary attacks when used with their claws.
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Pg. 328 - Abominable Snowmen
I love when people mention an error with a creature. It gives me an excuse to look further at the stat block in case there's other stuff wrong:
1) Rage rounds per day is wrong in Special Attacks line. Should be "rage (13 rounds/day)".
2) These guys are missing their ability point increase for hitting 12 HD. Let's take a look:
Standard Yeti:
Str 19
Dex 12
Con 15
Int 9
Wis 12
Cha 10
Now let's add the bonuses for these guys having class levels (arranged +4, +2, +4, -2, +2, +0). We'll also add 1 point into Con for when they hit 8 HD. We get:
Str 23
Dex 14
Con 20
Int 7
Wis 14
Cha 10
Add another +4 to Str and Con for raging and viola, we have the stats presented in the book. Unfortunately we still have one more point to add for being 12 HD. Str makes the most sense, since the only other stat that would benefit from a single point is Int and they're not using it.
Dragons get Bite + Str 1.5, Claw + Str, tail slap +Str 1.5, and wings + Str 1.5
Dragon wings get STR*0.5, not STR*1.5
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I believe page 328 - Abominable Snowmen needs adjustment:
...
Bite should read
Bite +14 (1d6+4 plus 1d6 cold)
Rend should be primary damage + Str 1.5 the rend ability should change to:
rend (2 claws, 1d8+12 plus 1d6 cold)
The original line didn't account for the extra strength - or the improved natural attack feat. The cold ability from the base Yeti indicates that it works with any natural or unarmed attack - and rend - the yeti statblock also uses the cold damage in the rend.
Ugh, one final thing, I promise. Bite attack WOULD NOT get the cold damage. The cold ability from the base yeti says OTHER CREATURES that use natural attacks or unarmed strikes against it take the cold damage, and then the yeti deals it when it uses claws and rend.
Also, regarding rend, the bonus to damage may be even higher. Depending on if we're supposed to account for their Weapon Specialization (claws) feat.
Dragons get Bite + Str 1.5, Claw + Str, tail slap +Str 1.5, and wings + Str 1.5Dragon wings get STR*0.5, not STR*1.5
Yup - my bad I even triple checked thank you!
I believe page 328 - Abominable Snowmen needs adjustment:
...
Bite should read
Bite +14 (1d6+4 plus 1d6 cold)
Rend should be primary damage + Str 1.5 the rend ability should change to:
rend (2 claws, 1d8+12 plus 1d6 cold)
The original line didn't account for the extra strength - or the improved natural attack feat. The cold ability from the base Yeti indicates that it works with any natural or unarmed attack - and rend - the yeti statblock also uses the cold damage in the rend.
Ugh, one final thing, I promise. Bite attack WOULD NOT get the cold damage. The cold ability from the base yeti says OTHER CREATURES that use natural attacks or unarmed strikes against it take the cold damage, and then the yeti deals it when it uses claws and rend.
Also, regarding rend, the bonus to damage may be even higher. Depending on if we're supposed to account for their Weapon Specialization (claws) feat.
Ohhh good catch on the wording. I totally misread that. Although I'll go on the record as saying 'weird' :P
With rend - I don't think it would be higher as it's supposed to be (love the word usually here) one of the attacks dmg plus 1.5 str.
The statblock lists 1d6 (wrong due to the improved natural weapon) but with the extra point of Str, and using bite as a primary you get the following:
Yeti:
Raging stats:
Str 28, Dex 14, Con 24, Int 7, Wis 14, Cha 10
Melee Bite +19(1d6+9), 2 claws +20(1d8+11/19-20 plus 1d6 cold); rend (2 claws, 1d8+16 plus 1d6 cold)
I *think* that should make the entry correct.
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Pg. 328 - Area H: Abominable Dome
In this area's description, third paragraph, first sentence says:
"In fact, Voorgoor was slain and fed to the dragon Ghlorofaex, and his periodic 'visits' back here are made by none other than Khalib (Karzoug's current apprentice), disguised as Voorgoor via a monstrous physique II spell (Ultimate Magic 229)."
This tactic isn't possible, actually. The monstrous physique spells are transmutation (polymorph) spells, and spells with the polymorph subschool can't transform you into specific creatures unless the text of the spell says they can. This can be quickly waived away, however, if one just assumes that Voorgoor wore a helm or something else that covered his face. His yeti brethren could simply be too stupid or afraid (or both) to ask him to show his face to prove his identity. It COULD make for some interesting developments, however, if the PCs just happen to stumble upon one of these meetings, and somehow knock the helmet off of him. Suddenly the other yetis, carried by the momentum of their raging, could turn on this imposter. At the very least it would confuse the hell out of them.
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With rend - I don't think it would be higher as it's supposed to be (love the word usually here) one of the attacks dmg plus 1.5 str.
The statblock lists 1d6 (wrong due to the improved natural weapon) but with the extra point of Str, and using bite as a primary you get the following:
Yeti:
Raging stats:
Str 28, Dex 14, Con 24, Int 7, Wis 14, Cha 10Melee Bite +19(1d6+9), 2 claws +20(1d8+11/19-20 plus 1d6 cold); rend (2 claws, 1d8+16 plus 1d6 cold)
I *think* that should make the entry correct.
That's what my bite and claws come to as well, but my rend is different:
1d8+13 plus 1d6 cold (if you decide you think Weapon Spec should apply [and I'm starting to], then this becomes 1d8+15).
With rend - I don't think it would be higher as it's supposed to be (love the word usually here) one of the attacks dmg plus 1.5 str.
The statblock lists 1d6 (wrong due to the improved natural weapon) but with the extra point of Str, and using bite as a primary you get the following:
Yeti:
Raging stats:
Str 28, Dex 14, Con 24, Int 7, Wis 14, Cha 10Melee Bite +19(1d6+9), 2 claws +20(1d8+11/19-20 plus 1d6 cold); rend (2 claws, 1d8+16 plus 1d6 cold)
I *think* that should make the entry correct.
That's what my bite and claws come to as well, but my rend is different:
1d8+13 plus 1d6 cold (if you decide you think Weapon Spec should apply [and I'm starting to], then this becomes 1d8+15).
TY - and I like the idea with Khalib - the Yeti's aren't really meant to be a huge challenge at this point - having the disguise popped - and confusion would give them a *chance* to RP the snowmen into allies - or at least non-aggressors. At the very least it would give a glimpse of a later enemy - have Khalib use a quickened DD to pop away once the ruse is up and let the party get a good 'look' at him before he does.
Mind you I'm assuming my PCs will have a true seeing up and instead of the helmet want to dispel the effect -
:)
Page 355 - The Thing from beyond time.
Missing Plane Shift from spell like abilities (which it is noted as using in it's stat block)
Page 355 - The Thing from beyond time.
Missing Plane Shift from spell like abilities (which it is noted as using in it's stat block)
The plane shift is part of its "angled entry" ability. The text of that ability should probably have been provided, but it can be found in the regular Hound of Tindalos statblock (in Bestiary 2), as can the text of the "otherworldly mind" ability and the "ripping gaze" attack.
I'm guessing the text of these three abilities was cut from the adventure for space reasons, but some of them are pretty important for running the monster (particularly the gaze attack).
Edit: That makes me wonder how many other creatures with otherwise full statblocks are missing ability-text..
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Page 355 - The Thing from beyond time.
Missing Plane Shift from spell like abilities (which it is noted as using in it's stat block)
The plane shift is part of its "angled entry" ability. The text of that ability should probably have been provided, but it can be found in the regular Hound of Tindalos statblock (in Bestiary 2), as can the text of the "otherworldly mind" ability and the "ripping gaze" attack.
I'm guessing the text of these three abilities was cut from the adventure for space reasons, but some of them are pretty important for running the monster (particularly the gaze attack).
Edit: That makes me wonder how many other creatures with otherwise full statblocks are missing ability-text..
I mean it's fairly prevalent throughout. Erylium is missing her poison stats for her claws, those yetis we were going on about were missing their cold and frightful gaze descriptions, etc.
Page 355 - The Thing from beyond time.
Missing Plane Shift from spell like abilities (which it is noted as using in it's stat block)
The plane shift is part of its "angled entry" ability. The text of that ability should probably have been provided, but it can be found in the regular Hound of Tindalos statblock (in Bestiary 2), as can the text of the "otherworldly mind" ability and the "ripping gaze" attack.
I'm guessing the text of these three abilities was cut from the adventure for space reasons, but some of them are pretty important for running the monster (particularly the gaze attack).
Edit: That makes me wonder how many other creatures with otherwise full statblocks are missing ability-text..
I'd agree with you but we get gear listings and notes for 'wardens of wind' and 'thunder' several times throughout this chapter - when they could have done as they did in book 3 and just said 'see stats on pg whatever'.
I know the hound has it - it's just an error :)
And on to:
The online document says:
Page 363-354
Karzoug: Based on his point-buy he should have a Wisdom of 18 raising his Will save to +21.
Actually his Wisdom should be 18 but is *almost* accurate in his stat block - it should be 16 with his will save at +20 (he has a -2 for wearing the talons of Leng.)
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The online document says:
Page 363-354
Karzoug: Based on his point-buy he should have a Wisdom of 18 raising his Will save to +21.Actually his Wisdom should be 18 but is *almost* accurate in his stat block - it should be 16 with his will save at +20 (he has a -2 for wearing the talons of Leng.)
Actually 18 IS factoring in the talons of Leng. Let's start from what he has and then work backwards. I'll put the Wis at 18 so you can see where my logic train is headed:
Str 24
Dex 24
Con 28
Int 36
Wis 18
Cha 22
Now, Karzoug has A LOT affecting his stats:
- Immortal: +3 Int, +3 Wis, +3 Cha (untyped bonuses)
- Inherent Bonuses: +4 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, +5 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha (inherent bonuses [duh])
- Talons of Leng: -2 Wis
- Belt of Physical Might: +6 Str, +6 Dex (enhancement bonuses)
- 3 crimson sphere ioun stones: +6 Int (enhancement bonus)
- 3 onyx rhomboids ioun stones: +6 Con (enhancement bonus)
- 20 HD: 5 bonus points that can be put anywhere (like any good wizard, Karzoug put his in Int)
- Pure Azlanti human: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha (racial bonuses)
- Transmuter physical enhancement ability: +5 (Str or Dex)*, +5 Con (enhancement bonuses)
*I put this here because 20th-level transmuters get to pick two physical ability stats to add their bonus to, but the stat block only lists Con. It doesn't matter THAT much, since his belt of physical might is already providing enhancement bonuses to both these scores. If this magic item were, say, targeted with a mage's disjunction spell, then yes, it would matter then.
Ok, so if we subtract these bonuses above, ignoring any smaller bonuses that share the same type as another, we're left with:
Str 12
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 11
Cha 13
So if we now look at the point-buy rules, the points that would have been spent to get these scores are 2, 2, 10, 7, 1, and 3, respectively. Add 'em up, you get 25, which is how many points Karzoug got to spend thanks to his Exceptional Stats ability.
So! To summarize, his Wis SHOULD say 18 (and consequently, Will should be +21). Taking the talons of Leng off would bring his Wis to 20.
Pg. 113 - Skinsaw cultist
The attack bonus for the masterwork war razor should be +6 to account for the skinsaw mask's +1 profane bonus with slashing weapons.
Actually, the profane bonus to slashing weapons the skinsaw mask provides is only to damage, not to attack. So their attack bonus from the book is correct.
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Pg. 113 - Skinsaw cultist
The attack bonus for the masterwork war razor should be +6 to account for the skinsaw mask's +1 profane bonus with slashing weapons.
Actually, the profane bonus to slashing weapons the skinsaw mask provides is only to damage, not to attack. So their attack bonus from the book is correct.
Wow, kinda shocked I missed this. Good catch.
Thanks! Actually, I've got a few of my own to add. I can't find my full list right now, but here's a couple:
· In page 31, Tsuto's stats do not include his racial immunity to sleep.
· In pages 43, 46 and 53, the goblin warrior headers indicate they have 5 hp, but up until that point (and also in the Bestiary page these statistic blocks refer to), they are shown to have 6 hp, so I guess this is another error.
· This is more cosmetic than anything else, but in page 79, the stats block for the insane wererat calls him by the name Pidget, but the rest of the entry for A11 calls him Pidgit. I guess the name in the stat block is wrong.
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Thanks! Actually, I've got a few of my own to add. I can't find my full list right now, but here's a couple:
· In page 31, Tsuto's stats do not include his racial immunity to sleep.
· In pages 43, 46 and 53, the goblin warrior headers indicate they have 5 hp, but up until that point (and also in the Bestiary page these statistic blocks refer to), they are shown to have 6 hp, so I guess this is another error.
· This is more cosmetic than anything else, but in page 79, the stats block for the insane wererat calls him by the name Pidget, but the rest of the entry for A11 calls him Pidgit. I guess the name in the stat block is wrong.
Correct, Tsuto needs "Immune sleep" next to his Defensive Abilities entry.
OOH! You're correct that their HP is wrong, but it's actually supposed to be 7 hp, not 6. The stats they tell you to go by are those in the Bestiary, but the Bestiary forgot to implement favored class bonuses into their stat blocks. The norm is to put it into HP, so it would actually be 7 hp. Yes, that means the other pages that list it as 6 hp should actually say 7. I'm going to go through the rest of the book and see if anyone else is missing their bonus (and yes I'll check skills to make sure it's not in there) and post their page number in my next post.