How exactly do these two abilities interact with one another? You can't have both active at the same time, obviously. But what happens when you activate one while the other is already active?
The SLA states you can't use it when the Eidolon is summoned. However, it also states that it comes from the same source of power as the Eidolon. The SLA is canceled if you use it again, so would the same be true for the Eidolon (Eidolon is banished when you use the SLA)? And what happens when you summon the Eidolon while the SLA is active?
Our general rule is that you can't activate the other until the first one is gone. So if your Eidolon is out and you want to bust out your SLA, you need to take a standard action to dismiss your Eidolon first.
In other words, you need to free up the channel before you can use the inactive ability.
I actually think that's RAW, or at least RAI. It does make the SLA somewhat useless, though. Most Summoners will have their Eidolon fighting whenever possible. And when it goes down, it just lies there bleeding, preventing you from replacing it with a sumoned monster unless you waste 2 rounds. And by that time the fight might as well be over. I'd really wish they'd just say either one disappears when the other one is summoned.
What LazarX said was the intent, although they mangled the wording a bit, IIRC.
And many people have found the summon monster SLA even more useful than the Eidolon. Lots of versatility right there.
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I don't think it's bad that one has to be dismissed before the other can be used. It's one of those things that makes a player think about what they want to do during a battle.
The summoner can still cast a SM spell off of their spell list normally with their eidolon or SM SLA active.
The bigger question is the use of the summon eidolon spell. Because it says that you should treat this as you had summoned the eidolon normally (except for the duration or inability to touch "protected" creatures), it still follows the hit point rules, including half hp if it had been previously killed, as well as unable to be summoned if the SLA creature is currently in effect. Is my understanding in agreement with the general consesus?
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I actually think that's RAW, or at least RAI. It does make the SLA somewhat useless, though. Most Summoners will have their Eidolon fighting whenever possible. And when it goes down, it just lies there bleeding, preventing you from replacing it with a sumoned monster unless you waste 2 rounds. And by that time the fight might as well be over. I'd really wish they'd just say either one disappears when the other one is summoned.Our general rule is that you can't activate the other until the first one is gone. So if your Eidolon is out and you want to bust out your SLA, you need to take a standard action to dismiss your Eidolon first.
In other words, you need to free up the channel before you can use the inactive ability.
So far (just achieved level 7) the summoner in my group has:
- fought 4 battles that started while he was asleep, so no eidolon (he has learned Summon eidolon as soon as possible but still he had to rely on summoned creatures for 3 of them)- dismissed her eidonlon and sent a celestial eagle to pursue a fleeing enemy outside the operative range of her eidolon
- summoned a lantern archon to work as a universal translator at least 3 times
- the same lantern archon was used as recon or combat support in another couple of situation. As its light rays overcome all kinds of DR they are useful. Similarly flight 60' perfect and DR 10/evil make a good recon unit.
I don't call SLA useless at all.
I don't call SLA useless at all.
It's not completely useless, of course. Far from it, in fact. But I do wish it had more applications in a "regular" combat. You know, just your party and the enemies trading blows. Would be nice if you could react faster when the situation calls for it and you suddenly need a great grappler, a certain spell. I mean, it's not like you can just go back to your Eidolon next round.
I'm most diasappointed by the fact that you can't do anything when your Eidolon is unconscious or otherwise unable to act. Maybe a Feat tthat allows you to Dismiss the Eidolon as Move or Swift action would be a good idea.
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1) millions of summoned creatures are bad for game enjoyment. a single player would take away a a large portion of the gaming time.
Assigning the management of each summoned creature could ameliorate that a bit but it would be still annoying for a lot of players.
2) the summoner is already a very strong class, There is no need to make it even stronger.
3) you get to act twice (summoner and eidolon) most of the time and feel the need to be capable to act three times? (dismiss eidolon, summon creatures, attack with creatures)
It seem a bit excessive.
Remember your summon your monsters as a standard action and they act the round they are summoned.
4) so, dismiss eidolon as a move action:
In one round:
- Ediolon do a full attack
- Summoner dismiss it as a move action
- summoner summon one or more monsters in any location withn close range
- monsters attacks
No, not good.