Adept Channel Adept Only?

[blackbloodtroll]

After a previous thread, I have decided to put this under review.
Are levels in Adept, the only way to qualify for the Adept Channel feat?
Here is the feat:

Orcs of Golarion wrote:

Adept Channel

Some orc adepts enjoy a greater connection to their gods, and can channel their faith through their unholy symbols. You gain the ability to channel energy as a cleric.

Prerequisites: Ability to cast divine spells, summon familiar class ability, caster level 4th, Charisma 13.

Benefit: You gain the channel energy class feature, as a cleric, usable 2 times per day. This ability otherwise functions like the cleric's channel energy ability, except that your effective cleric level is equal to your divine spellcasting class level –3. Unlike a cleric, however, the number of times per day you may channel energy is not affected by your Charisma modifier.

[Feral]

No, you could do it with multiclassing or eldritch heritage.

[Benly]

Feral wrote:

No, you could do it with multiclassing or eldritch heritage.

The argument is whether the "summon familiar" prerequisite means that it requires specifically the feature named "summon familiar" (which the adept gets and no other class does) or whether the ability to summon a familiar is all that is required (such as through the Arcane Bond class feature). The "summon familiar" ability of the adept specifically says it works the same as Arcane Bond, if that matters.

If the specific ability isn't required, you don't actually need to multiclass for a PC to be able to benefit from the feat. Druids with the druidic specialty domains that grant familiars (Monkey, Frog, etc.) would qualify straight out of the box.

[deuxhero]

And honestly, letting Druids of some domains, Oracles with Eldritch heritage and multiclassed divine casters take the feat isn't a big deal, at most it qualifies you for some stuff that requires Channel Energy (and Channel Smite into Guided Hand, which will only come at level 9, is the only useful use of that).

[wraithstrike]

You would have to have the "summon familiar" ability, by the rules.

[blackbloodtroll]

Honestly, I have only had one person dispute that other classes cannot take this feat, but it did give me pause.

[wraithstrike]

A prerequisite is a prerequisite. I would like to see their reasoning though since a specific class feature is called out.

[blackbloodtroll]

Their reasoning was that though summon familiar = arcane bond, arcane bond =/= summon familiar.

[Benly]

wraithstrike wrote:

A prerequisite is a prerequisite. I would like to see their reasoning though since a specific class feature is called out.

The reasoning in favor of allowing non-adepts with familiar class features to qualify is derived from this post, wherein SKR clarifies that the Life oracle's "channel" feature, the paladin's "channel positive energy" feature, and the cleric's "channel energy" feature all count as the same feature for purposes of prerequisites despite having different names, because they all use the same mechanics and point to the same source for the rules on how they work.

Since the adept's "summon familiar" feature points to the wizard's "arcane bond" feature and uses the same mechanics as the familiar function of arcane bond, it seems consistent with this earlier ruling to say that the two abilities (and any other ability that points to the arcane bond's familiar function and uses the same mechanics) are considered the same feature for purposes of prerequisites, just as the three different channels are.

[wraithstrike]

Benly wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

A prerequisite is a prerequisite. I would like to see their reasoning though since a specific class feature is called out.

The reasoning in favor of allowing non-adepts with familiar class features to qualify is derived from this post, wherein SKR clarifies that the Life oracle's "channel" feature, the paladin's "channel positive energy" feature, and the cleric's "channel energy" feature all count as the same feature for purposes of prerequisites despite having different names, because they all use the same mechanics and point to the same source for the rules on how they work.

Since the adept's "summon familiar" feature points to the wizard's "arcane bond" feature and uses the same mechanics as the familiar function of arcane bond, it seems consistent with this earlier ruling to say that the two abilities (and any other ability that points to the arcane bond's familiar function and uses the same mechanics) are considered the same feature for purposes of prerequisites, just as the three different channels are.

I like this reasoning. :)

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, having read the linked post, and giving it some thought, I was right all along.
I am not always right, so I take what I can get.

Thanks to all who helped!

[Bardess]

wraithstrike's reasoning is quite good. Many feats require "animal companion class feature" or "familiar class feature", and not "arcane bond", "nature bond" or "hunter bond".
So it's reasonable to suppose that my oracle/witch can channel energy all along with this feat.

[blackbloodtroll]

Hmm, Inquisitor, with the Frog Domain, Adept Channel feat, and Channeling Scourge feat.

[Matthias]

How about a Wizard with a familiar the Magical Talent trait?
Magical Talent: Either from inborn talent, the whimsy of the gods, or obsessive study of strange tomes, you have mastered the use of a cantrip. Choose a 0-level spell. You may cast that spell once per day as a spell-like ability. This spell-like ability is cast at your highest caster level gained; if you have no caster level, it functions at CL 1st. The spell-like ability's save DC is Charisma-based.

I would think so since it says choose a 0 level spell so you could do a divine one, but wording is odd. Would be neat to be able to make a life sub-school necromancer that can channel (albeit for low amounts).

[Bardess]

The Magical Talent trait is not the same thing as being a divine caster. I'd rule this out if it were me.

[blackbloodtroll]

Spell-like abilities, and being able to cast spells, are not the same thing.

[Benly]

And before anyone brings it up, Two-World Magic won't do the trick either - it adds the spell to your spell list, so a sorcerer who poaches Stabilize with it has Stabilize as an arcane spell.

The classes that can easily benefit from this, off the top of my head: druids are the most obvious. They cast divine spells, and several druidic natural domains grant familiars. Clerics and inquisitors are also allowed to select druidic domains if appropriate to their deity; a cleric won't really benefit unless she has an archetype that loses channeling, but an inquisitor might like qualifying for Guided Hand. Oracles don't get domains, but Eldritch Heritage is already popular and easy to qualify for, so they might want Adept Channel if their mystery doesn't have a channeling revelation. Rangers could theoretically get it via Eldritch Heritage but it'd be a lot of investment for not so much benefit.

[Umbranus]

Benly wrote:

Clerics and inquisitors are also allowed to select druidic domains if appropriate to their deity; a cleric won't really benefit unless she has an archetype that loses channeling

Why so?

You can't have enough channels per day.
Depending on what you want to do with your channel energy two more uses at -3 can be more useful than one more channel at full level.

[deuxhero]

Extra Channel is 2 extra uses at full power. There is a trait that gives one extra.