So the dm for the group i'm in just showed us this template he made for any 'boss' baddies. "To model after the boss's like in rpg's that you can't avoid and are tougher then everything else". So I'm putting it here to see what you all think.... I don't really know what to think; I would never want to fight this, and I wouldn't want to force any players to fight something that has such cheap moves. I'll stick to my advanced/half-fiend/giant templates (or just use a higher cr monster). "Meant to be tough" as the dm says.
Ever get those enemies in any game that no matter what you do, or how high your stats are, you still no matter what have to fight them? I'm sure everyone at some point at another have fought those guys before. This template will have DMs create one of these kind of monsters.
For anyone who chooses to use this, be sure only one monster has this template; and that is used in scripted sequences (such as dungeons or areas where the PCs cant run from). This template is not meant for more than one monster; as all this contains is boosts and buffs; with no weaknesses.
Challenge Rating: A boss retains the same CR as the original monster +3.
Hit die: Racial hit die is changed to d10s. Monster has an additional 3d10 HP at the start.
Type: Type and size of monster remains the same.
Armor class: A Boss has a natural armor class of +3.
Defensive abilities: A boss gains DR 5, and has spell resistance 10.
Spells: If the boss is a spell caster, it has +3 spells per day on all level spells.
Base attack: Bosses base attack increases by +2.
Speed: A boss retains its base land speed, +15.
Saving throws: All saving throws increase by +4.
CMD/CMB: CMD and CMB gain +4.
Bonus feats: Diehard
Skills: All class skills gain +4 misc modifer.
Special abilities: Arena, Special Senses, Death Armor, Special XP yield, Slam
Arena: The Boss has been well prepared for this encounter, and has made all nessecary preparations. Once the PCs have entered an the area that the boss has designated for the battle arena, the evironment itself was corral the PCs in. PCs cannot use spells such as teleport or items to escape the area, and all DCs for using skills to escape are deemed "Impossible." The only way for escape is to defeat the boss. Once the boss is defeated, the area will return to normal.
If the PCs attempt to teleport around the area, they will simply teleport into the designated area. Assume that all other areas carry an anti magic field.
Special Senses: PCs cannot use spells or stealth actions to escape the boss. If the PCs attempt to do so, they automatically fail.
Death armor: Bosses cannot be affected by spells that cause death, or cause them to disappear in anyway shape or form. If the PC decides to use this spell anyway, and it succeeds, the boss takes 6d6 damage in its place (plus modifers based on class).
Special XP yield: Destroying a boss takes more planning than the average fight. Once the boss is destroyed, the party gains twice the amount of XP earned than usual.
Slam: Boss gains the Slam attack as a special ability.
Ability scores: STR +4, DEX +4, CON +2, INT +2, WIS +4, CHA, +2
That's the exact copy of what was posted on our little facebook group page. I know every dm can do they're own thing but....
Ah well, maybe this will give someone ideas, or even have it used for your own games.
So it's a template to make monsters simultaneously much harder to kill and slightly better at killing you.
And he only plans to use it in situations where the party can't flee for whatever arbitrary reason?
Well... That's certainly an all or nothing approach I guess. Either the party gets an impressive win, or a TPK. No other alternatives really. Or at least not that they can control.
I'm going to be honest, I don't see it as very creative. If I want a "boss" encounter I just slap a few class levels on something or I add an appropriate template. It's amazing how much you can do with what's already there. I think the parts that bother me the most are the special abilities. All of them.
Some GM’s really dislike it when players ruin their carefully laid plans and go well beyond what I feel they should to prevent it from happening. For example, they may fudge saving throws, skill checks, etc. to ensure that their well made BBEG doesn’t die to fast and ensure things go "as planned".
It sounds to me like he decided to create a template just for the express purpose of being able to give himself a “legitimate” reason why these things won’t work without “cheating”. Personally if a GM ran a template like this in a game I played in I would probably talk to him about it after the game and in all likelihood bow out and go elsewhere if it was going to continue to be used.
If a GM wants to create a reasonable explanation why something doesn’t work that’s fine. In fact I find it can be a lot of fun. You start asking yourself questions like "Is there any way I can use this to my advantage?" But as a player, I strongly dislike GM’s simply stopping something just because it’s not what they wanted or expected to happen. Consequently, powers that amount to it doesn’t work because I said so just don’t fly with me.
And honestly I don't like it as a GM either, I actually enjoy it when my players surprise me, after running games for over 20 years I think I’d be bored of it by now if they didn’t. Naturally all of this is just my opinion, if you are enjoying the game, then keep playing, there’s certainly nothing wrong with that.
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I have found that Pathfinder don't handle solo encounters particularly well, mostly because of the action economy. I have had great success with the template below when handling solo encounters. I made the template to give bbeg a fighting chance when facing a group of pc's alone. I only use the template for really important bad guys to make any battle with them more memorable.
Champion template (+3 CR)
A Champion creature is the top of its breed, it has a great destiny, better training or is plain tougher than a normal creature of its kind. They are natural leaders and often followed by a horde of servants.
Destined for greatness (Ex):
• A champion creature gains +6 to two ability scores and +4 to the rest of its ability scores.
• It gains a +4 dodge bonus to its armor class and +4 to its natural armor (if it has any).
• A champion creature gains a +4 competence bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, Cmb, cmd, saving throws, skills and ability checks, caster level checks, concentration checks, initiative checks and SR if it has any.
• Champion creatures always have twice the maximum hit points for its hit dice.
• A champion creature is immune to death and mind-effecting effects and any other effect which would otherwise cause instant death.
• It counts as twice its hit dice for the purpose of effects limited by hit dice such as color spray and sleep.
• Any damage reduction, fast healing or regeneration the creature possesses is doubled.
• The champion creature gains two bonus feats it meets the requirements for.
Heroic (villainous) action (Ex): A champion creature can take two additional standard, swift or move actions, the first at an initiative count five lower than what it rolled and the second at an initiative count of ten lower than its initial initiative. When affected by any adverse effect that would immediately incapacitate it the master creature immediately gets to roll a new save and can make a new save at the beginning of every action of rounds until he makes it or the effect ends. A champion’s actions never provoke attacks of opportunities.
Heroic (Villainous) destiny (Ex): When below 50% of its hit points the creature creature rolls twice for all D20 rolls and takes the highest result and is considered to be under the effect of a haste and divine favor (CL equal to HD +3) spell (although not magical in nature and can’t be dispelled). Once per day when reduced to 0 hit points or below or if he gets incapacitated by any spell or effect the master creature can take a standard action or the withdraw action as an immediate action and during this round gains a +10 luck bonus to AC, saves, attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, Cmb, cmd, ability checks and concentration checks at the end of this action he is restored to one hit point. Masters have wealth as a player character of their level or double their normal treasure.
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It all seems to immersion-breaking to me. If you want +3 CR, just add class levels. The whole "Immune to all death / mind effect" especially bothers me. What if one of your characters is an Enchanter?
I'm more or less ok with extra standard actions every once in a while, but it gets weird if every BBEG you meet acts twice (or three times) as fast as you. Makes a man want to go Evil. They clearly have a better benefits package.
If you simply must make a solo encounter, you have to plan carefully. If the party is low level, a single melee guy with good AC will be a challenge. As long as he is resistant to the PC's best SoS. If they have grease, make sure he has a positive acrobatics score. If they have colour spray, make sure he has Improved Iron Will.
Solo wizards that are prepared can also wreck a party's day. Spells like Web and Darkness + Darkvision can really even out the action economy. At higher levels, Fly + Greater Invisibility can make a boss threatening.
Finally, you can get clever and have your boss guy supported by a couple of level 1 wizards with scrolls of Major Image hidden in the walls.
I like using tough creatures as bosses, but really? That seems pretty absurd to me. Stealth should always be a viable option, i've had players sneak through an entire dungeon without being spotted and just loot the place. If they go to the great lengths required to playa super stealth character, i think it shouldn't be stripped away from them. Between that and all of the "Negate" style abilities it has, this template is just rediculous.
If every boss is like this it would suck, even for a computer game this is an extreme lack of creativity.
The advanced template is as close as I will get to a quick and dirty boss/leader template, and honestly I couldn't stomach to use that template in 90% of the cases.
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I use boss monster templates and solo monster templates all the time. They work best when adding levels doesn't really work/make sense and I want the boss creature to be able to handle the action economy issue of being ganged up on (and specialized roles). General rule - I do not apply these templates to humanoids BBEGs, for them I use levels or less obvious/minor templates.
That being said this template is a bit too powerful (and I know some people are going to disagree) but I think it’s fair.
Not so much in price for ability vs. xp reward (I don't have time to calculate that) but fair in theory. See, the DM here has cooked up a silly template designed with a set of powers and expectation but he is also willing to pay for it (+3 CR, x2 xp value). So if this encounter with its inflated powers is beaten the players will get a hefty reward, even if some of those powers are a series of anti-player abilities. So on theory and philosophy I wouldn't be against it because this DM is willing to make amends for the tremendous power he is giving a creature without cheating or fudging die roles and with using DM fiat to eliminate player abilities which he thinks are cheese. If he gives his BBEG this template and they still fail their save on a SoD or SoS spell and the DM applies the results to the bad guy then I can’t say that he’s doing it wrong.
The template does tell me some things about this DM
Here is what this DM dislikes:
- The current non-existant rules for Solo Bosses (a given)
- Save or die spells (aka "one shotting it")
- Action economy (extra HP, AC, DR and spell resistance)
- Encounter Negation (part of SoD/SoS, but can include avoiding the encounter - teleport, fleeing, etc).
- Feels that encounters are not cinematic enough - hence the slam ability and resistance to single action encounter shutdowns.
BTW, the template doesn't scale well and the powers are crap (imo), but that's another argument best reserved for a thread on how to make boss or solo monster templates.
Genius Guide to Simple Monster Template has the Mighty template that should suit your need.
Genius Guide to Simple Monster Template has the Mighty template that should suit your need.
Rite Publishing's Exemplar template is better for a lower CR increase. In one case I applied it twice. Or combine with the Mythic template for something spectacularly nasty.