Warlock: STR Ranger's Guide to the Hexcrafter.


Advice

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True?

Hmmm then maybe Spell perfection: shocking grasp would be better and Empower as the other feat.

that way I could Quicken an intensified Shocking Grasp (delivered via spellstrike- free weapon attack) and then Spell combat full attack with Empowerd Intensified SG.
SO a 3 Full BAB attacks, 2 iteratives and 25d6 damage for 2, 1st level slots.


I don't have a link for a Varrel character sheet in the actual posting, but for a single feat that you are looking for, how about additional traits. I'm assuming you only picked one of Wayang Spell Hunter and Magical Lineage - Additional traits would let you get the other one, and an additional bonus - see the guide to traits:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dVQA-uI740Hh8vq-zsnbHV6UwJg-4QKlpmkxBEm CdhA/edit?pli=1
Note, that if nothing else, Finding Haleen, the campaign trait is just punchy as hell. Or getting perception as a class skill can be just huge...

Also, have you looked at staff-magus Hexcrafters combos. The archetypes stack without a problem. Melee combat it less effective than a scimitar, but a CL20 staff of Frostbite costs 15000 gp. In a staff magus's hands it is a +5 weapon (worth 50K!), and 10 times a day allows the deathstar option of dropping a CL 20 Frostbite and wailing on people a +D6+20 dmg and fatigue. No save...


This profile is Varrel.

Working on Gear Now.

140.000gp to spend

+4 Agile Mithral Breastplate 20400gp
+3 Scimitar 18000gp (Overcomes DR Cold Iron/Silver)
+2 Ring of Deflection 8000 gp
Ring of Wizardry (1st level) 20000gp
Amulet of Natural Armor (+2) 8000gp
Minor Cloak of Resistance (+4) 16000gp
Headband of Mental Prowess (+2 Int, Wis) 10000gp
Belt of Physical Perfection (+2) 16000gp
Boots of Speed 12000gp
Dusty Rose Ioun Stone (+1AC) 5000gp
=133400gp

leaving 6600 for scrolls.

Any opinions?


I'd consider dropping Cackle as a Hex - the only thing you've got that it works on is evil eye. Is it worth it to extend only 1 hex? I would also reconsider Cone of Cold as one of your outlander spells - Cone of Cold kind of sucks...Ask your DM if you can pick a hex instead (he'll say no if he is sensible).

I would take the feat slot that currently goes to Extra Arcana: flight, and make it Additional Traits. Put flight in the slot that has Cackle. Get Additional traits: Wayang Spellhunter (Frostbite) and Eyes and Ears of the City (reflavour as bodyguard training...if you care).

Switch Rime Spell in for Quicken; are you really going to learn a single quickened 1st level spell in your only 5th level spell slot?

Skills - max perception, spellcraft, UMD (your familiar uses your ranks - them wands are practical)

Learn Frostbite as a 1st level spell. Prepare it (with Rime Spell for free - Wayang Spell Hunter) in place of Chill Touch. Prepare a True Strike in place of Color Spray - a 13th level Character isn't going to run into much that Color Spray will work on (6HD limit). Prepare your Shocking Grasp with Intensify as you get is for free (Magical Lineage).

Prepare Detect Magic as your last Cantrip...

2nd level spells suggested Mirror Image, Bladed Dash
3ed level spells should include Fireball
3ed level spells suggested Dispel Magic, Displacement, Wind Wall
4th level spells should include intensified Fireball, Dragonbreath
4th level spells suggested Greater Invisibility
5th level spells suggested is either Wall of Force or Undead Anatomy 2

Equipment - add 2X spell tatoo feather fall (1st level) = 200 gp (potentially a life-saver)
Add 3X pearl of power 1st level. (yeah, that's 8, so what - you're going to eat these for shocking grasp and frostbite...) = 3000 gp
A scroll of teleport is probably worth it as a backdoor escaped effect...
Scrolls of wall of force, true seeing and greater dispelling can be very useful.
Some alchemical antitoxin and antiplague is a good thing. So are tanglefoot bags.
Masterwork tools appropriate to your skills.

PS. What kind of adventurer doesn't have 100' of silk rope in his bag?!?


Thanks.

The spells I'm only just starting. You are reading his 5th level spell distribution. Good call on Wayang for Outlander.

I'll keep cackle. Evil Eye may be one hex but it has 3 effects and can be used to keep ALL of them running. Rime spell is very tempting- I'll mull over it today.


Went with
Wayang (Frostbite), Lineage (SG)

Rime for Frostbite, Intensify for SG

Not sure what to put spell perfection on.
Free Quicken Frostbite+Spell Combat Full Attack +Montrous Physique, Boots of Speed sounds Awesome.
Potentially Five Weapon Attacks+ Natural Attacks (with won't have an enhancement bonus, but use them to deliver touches) Keeps them fatigued, entangled and with 60-100 bonus non-lethal damage on top of your weapon damage they are likely knocked out.

Only problem? How many high level foes have fast healing or are immune to non-lethal?

Updating skills today. Then I'll look at spells.


Looks like a great build. Wish I could have worked Rime into the build you helped me with. It still came out pretty great -- or so I like to think.

Just now noticed the updated favored class bonus options from ARG as I was going over your build and thought you had too many hexes; my mistake! The elf bonus for magus looks ridiculous for a Hexcrafter -- an extra hex at levels 6, 12, and 18?!! Yes please.


Can you post the exact writing please?


Just have it from here as I don't own the ARG, but I assume they updated the OGC today or yesterday: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/elf

"Magus: The magus gains 1/6 of a new magus arcana."

I had just counted them up wrong, missed that you had an Extra Arcana in there, but this option makes the Hexcrafter even more of a boss -- and saves feats!

I don't know about anyone else, but I'll take more hexes over a few hitpoints any day of the week!


Aldready asking my DM's if they'll allow this. It's awesome.


STR Ranger wrote:
Aldready asking my DM's if they'll allow this. It's awesome.

Pretty much the best thing ever. Especially for the magus I'm building for that high-level campaign as I also went bladebound and lost my third-level arcana. I had resigned myself to just giving up on Evil-Eye+Cackle but now ...

I can't see any reason for somebody to NOT take this. For any magus, but especially a hexcrafter.

I still need to ask the DM about it, but I'm pretty sure he'll allow it.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Scripps wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:
Aldready asking my DM's if they'll allow this. It's awesome.

Pretty much the best thing ever. Especially for the magus I'm building for that high-level campaign as I also went bladebound and lost my third-level arcana. I had resigned myself to just giving up on Evil-Eye+Cackle but now ...

I can't see any reason for somebody to NOT take this. For any magus, but especially a hexcrafter.

I still need to ask the DM about it, but I'm pretty sure he'll allow it.

Yeah we're working hard to get all the Advanced Race Guide stuff up on the d20PFSRD site. I'd expect to see the entirety of it on there by the end of the week. But yeah, elf hexcrafter is gonna kick some serious butt thanks to the extra arcana you can get that way.


Well, my magus thanks you for your hard work -- you've much improved the quality of his life with that particular update!


Incidentally, here's the build I ended up going with for my magus; obviously I don't have the profile totally fleshed out, but you get the idea.


Varrel' Spells known is finished.
Spent a cool 11000 on spells known.

Happy with his spellbook advice on spells prepped would be nice.

Incidently I'm pretty happy with this build. The main schtick being using blur/displcement/Gtr Invis to protect himself and Activate Moonlight Stalker. (+2 to hit and damage while he has concealment.)

Then use monsterous physique to go to town with extra limbs and Rime.Spell Frostbite fullattacks.

He doesn't look hyperspecialised in that while his thing is fighting from concealment, he has hexes and spells for save or lose effects, can supplement his melee with blasting and a familiar to debuff foes with Ill Omen or Buff Varrel (I strongly considered a wand of Blur but decide it was too pricey)


For spells known: I normally prefer Mirror Image to Blur, but in your case Blur works great. Except of course that multiple sources of concealment don't stack, but I figure you know that and redundancy is not necessarily a bad thing -- especially when it savse you from a hit.

Warding Weapon maybe, in case you get caught in melee without invisibility/concealment and need to avoid those nasty AOOs?

I also like of Ray of Exhaustion. Lots.

For prepared spells: If concealment is your modus operandi I'd prepare Greater Invisibility, maybe over Ball Lightning, which I'm not crazy about.

I would want Read Magic prepared over Light.

But, overall, this looks really good to me. Utility, flavor, versatility -- all the stuff you want from a prepared caster, and with staying power and melee to boot. Nice.

Edit: Oops, I read that as asking for advice on both spells known and prepared. My mistake, although my suggestions stand.


No worries. I know multiple miss chance spells don't stack. I allow for.4-6 combats a day and Blur is my back up at this level IF my gtr Invis or displacement is dispelled. I won't bother with miss chance on single mooks (Slumber or Ice Tomb ftw) or multiple mooks (Black Tentacles or Ice Storm + Fireball or Ball Lightning).
Also I am still rocking a 29AC at 13 (33 with a shield spell)

I WAS and still am tempted to combine my cloak of Resist with Lesser Cloak of Displacement but am unsure of the cost.

Gtr Invis is Awesome. Maybe I should prep a second one...

Grand Lodge

hey STR ranger, like the guide.

What do you think of taking 4 levels of Dragon Disciple for a hexcrafter? This would only apply to the melee blaster build you mentioned that dips 1 level of crossblooded sorcerer. Looking at it, it seems to have a lot of goodies - continues your magus CL, +4 str, some natural armor, couple bonus feats. I'm not sure it's worth delaying stuff in magus though, which is where I'd love your opinion.


I'm not STR Ranger, but my two cents is to advise against it. For the most part, straight Magus or Magus and 1-level dip of something else (most often and, as you mentioned, sorcerer) is your best bet.

Especially with a hexcrafter -- less magus levels means fewer hexes. Fewer hexes makes me sad. :(

That being said, it does seem fun, and fun builds are better than optimal builds, in my opinion -- unless they end up being so sub-optimal that they cease to be fun.

Go elf and see if your DM will let you use the new favored class bonus that gives 1/6th of an arcana per level, that should make up somewhat for delaying your hexes.

Keep in mind though, at just 15 levels of magus, you will never have Grand Hexes.


STR Ranger wrote:

True?

Hmmm then maybe Spell perfection: shocking grasp would be better and Empower as the other feat.

that way I could Quicken an intensified Shocking Grasp (delivered via spellstrike- free weapon attack) and then Spell combat full attack with Empowerd Intensified SG.
SO a 3 Full BAB attacks, 2 iteratives and 25d6 damage for 2, 1st level slots.

You want to do this in the other order.

If you cast your quickened spell first and then MISS with your attack to deliver it, then you cannot cast the empowered one until the end of your spell combat.

You are better off starting the spell combat with the empowered, once you hit you THEN cast the quickened one and continue your full attack.

I would also take wayang and lineage both on shocking grasp, but then again I think giving up improved spell recall is a major sacrifice. I like the idea of a 'yay' team round being an elemental intensified empowered SG and another quickened one while burning essentially just an arcane pool point and a pearl of power 1st (i.e. 1st and 3rd level slot).

Don't get me wrong Hexcrafter is nice, but the loss is not trivial.

-James


I'm still out on what to take for spell perfection.

A 6th level Dazing Chain Lightning sounds nice.


STR Ranger wrote:

I'm still out on what to take for spell perfection.

A 6th level Dazing Chain Lightning sounds nice.

Sounds more like a wizard or a sorcerer and not a Magus.

Besides you want it to be persistent as well.. if you're going with dazing then you make them make two saves, not one.

-James


james, this avatar is the current build.
If you see too many hexes it's cause he gets extra arcana 1/6 levels as per new ARG options.

I went with Rime Frostbite as 1st level spell and Intensified Shocking Grasp as first level spell.

Now these are his two (main) melee hits.
SG is to provide a BIG whack when he has to move+attack on Rd1, he'll swift action Enchant his +3Scimitar up to +5, Keen, Frost

Note:
Keep in mind this is not ALWAYS gonna happen. I don't know party composition yet but if there is a Mega DC save or lose caster or a GAGM, Pounce barbarian in the group he is just as likely to Close+Evil eye so his buddy can finish it. I love Hexcrafters cause.they can.debuff at 0 spell cost and still fight)  OR if he is in Melee and wants to cackle+Spellstike.

His go to ability for Full attacks is to (free action Boots of Speed) swift arcane accuracy Power Attack Spell combat for +22/22/17/12/22 attack
With each attack doing 1d6+15weapon damage1d6(frost)+(1d6+13)nonleathal damage AND fatigueing and entangling the target.

Note:
If he gets greater Invis up as a prebuff, his to hit goes up by +3(Invisbonus+Moonlight Stalker) and damage goes up +2 per hit.
I will equip my Cassian (Human boy form) with a wand of Blur so he can buff me.

At 13th level, I'm pretty happy with that for a 3/4BAB class.

I am building for quicken later. So given what Varrel can do now what is your suggestion for Spell perfection?


Varrel, I looked at your revised character sheet, and have suggestions. You have a minor consistency issue with taking Wayang Spell Hunter (a regional trait for Minata)- where in your background is access to dragon empire magical techniques? (My original proposal was to take it as part of the Additional Traits feat, which IMO exempts a PC from such worries, just as Ranger bonus feats are exempt from pre-requisites). Also, you won't be using Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp) until late - you get intensify spell at 13th level...

Instead I suggest:
Traits - Magical Lineage (Frostbite), Finding Haleen (your particular "Haleen" might have been one of your fellow slaves of House Thrune).

The 13 extra HP will serve you well, and you can max Perception, Fly, and Stealth with the extra 13 skill points. Finding Haleen is an insanely powerful trait...

At 13th Take Accursed Hex rather than Intensify spell. Being able to try a second time with a hex can be a lifesaver! Alternatively Split Hex (Slumber) is also potentially very strong.

Finally switch Misfortune for Animate Hair (extra hand > something you can already do with Ill Omen). A lesser metamagic rod of intensify is a only 3000 gp...and is good fun with Fireball, as well as Shocking Grasp.


The first couple of sentences in his fluff say Varrel's childhood.was spent in Minata and daddy was a Mage. Varrel is a slave name. So Wayang is all good.

I like the Hair hex idea as a 3rd limb. I'll dump Misfortune (though is DOES have the advantage of being non-mind effecting), since my Cassian can carry a wand of Ill omen.

I'll use the Hair for a rod of Instensify on stuff like Fireball or dragon's breath. I am not much of a fan of Rods for Magai as using them is a FULL ROUND ACTION so doesn't synergise with spell combat.

Also can I not use the hair as an extra attack in the routine above.
EG scimitar attack 22/22/17/22+ Hair touch attack at [BAB9+6(Int mod)+6Arcane Accuracy=21]


Btw i can't take split hex or accursed hex. I don't have the HEX class feture, i have HEX ARCANA.

Dark Archive

STR Ranger wrote:

The first couple of sentences in his fluff say Varrel's childhood.was spent in Minata and daddy was a Mage. Varrel is a slave name. So Wayang is all good.

I like the Hair hex idea as a 3rd limb. I'll dump Misfortune (though is DOES have the advantage of being non-mind effecting), since my Cassian can carry a wand of Ill omen.

I'll use the Hair for a rod of Instensify on stuff like Fireball or dragon's breath. I am not much of a fan of Rods for Magai as using them is a FULL ROUND ACTION so doesn't synergise with spell combat.

Also can I not use the hair as an extra attack in the routine above.
EG scimitar attack 22/22/17/22+ Hair touch attack at [BAB9+6(Int mod)+6Arcane Accuracy=21]

Uhmm Metamagic rods are only a full round action for Sorcerers, not Magi. Go ahead and rock that Extend, Empower and quicken rod. It's worth it.

And why can't you use the hair in that sequence? It's damage will be low and at a -5 to hit but if you just use it to deliver the touch spell (as a Touch not as a spellstrike) it's more than worth it for Frostbite and/or frigid touch.


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A dumb question. Can you use a buckler with Spell Combat? Normally, a buckler counts as having a hand free... At that point, Varrel should reconsider his armor. A + 3 suit would free up enough cash for a darkwood buckler (0 ACP 0% ASF) +2, for a net gain of 2 points of AC.


Also as a subject for pondering. Have you contemplated rebuilding him as a Staff Magus Hexcrafter? Replacing his +3 scimitar with a Staff of Intensified Shocking Grasp (CL 20, 2 charges per use, 2 level spell) is a (20*400*2*0.5)*2 = 16000 gp weapon, saving 2000gp. It further is a +5 Weapon in a 10+ level staff magus's hand, adds at +8 shield bonus to his AC, making him a MUCH tougher nut in combat...

Drop the intensify spell again, for Extra Arcana(Wand Wielder). Drop Magical Lineage, again for Finding Haleen. Memorize more Rime Frostbite spells...

You are up 2 pts to hit and dmg every swing, 8 pts of AC. You critical on a 20 instead of 19-20. You can use a double weapon attack routine for an extra attack (although you really need the 2 Weapon Fighting feats for optimal use). You could in fact, drop Retribution Hex, for TWF (your dex isn't high enough for ITWF, unless you haven't included your belt of physical perfection in your stats - then you could drop Cackle as well for ITWF; 2 extra attacks).


Scripps here with the alias for the Hexcrafter you guys helped me build. I'm really happy with it, but not sure about what feats to plan for.

Feedback welcome!


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

The first couple of sentences in his fluff say Varrel's childhood.was spent in Minata and daddy was a Mage. Varrel is a slave name. So Wayang is all good.

I like the Hair hex idea as a 3rd limb. I'll dump Misfortune (though is DOES have the advantage of being non-mind effecting), since my Cassian can carry a wand of Ill omen.

I'll use the Hair for a rod of Instensify on stuff like Fireball or dragon's breath. I am not much of a fan of Rods for Magai as using them is a FULL ROUND ACTION so doesn't synergise with spell combat.

Also can I not use the hair as an extra attack in the routine above.
EG scimitar attack 22/22/17/22+ Hair touch attack at [BAB9+6(Int mod)+6Arcane Accuracy=21]

Uhmm Metamagic rods are only a full round action for Sorcerers, not Magi. Go ahead and rock that Extend, Empower and quicken rod. It's worth it.

And why can't you use the hair in that sequence? It's damage will be low and at a -5 to hit but if you just use it to deliver the touch spell (as a Touch not as a spellstrike) it's more than worth it for Frostbite and/or frigid touch.

Sweet. So the attack routine is 22/22/17/22 with a Keen scimitar (fingers crossed for crits) and the hair making a TOUCH attack at +16.

Sweet. But needs buff time since the hair takes an action to activate.
Good point about Rods. I'll have to unlearn some of the scrolls I copied to free up the cash.

As for why no Staff Magus? Don't like losing crit range and the abilities it gives up.
I don't think the buckler works.


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STR Ranger wrote:


As for why no Staff Magus? Don't like losing crit range and the abilities it gives up.
I don't think the buckler works.

Crit range I will discuss further below, but abilities. You mean the ones you aren't using - Med and Heavy Armor proficiencies and Fighter Training. You're wearing light armor (mithril breastplate), and fighter training helps you qualify for feats that need fighter levels. Of which you have zero, and don't recommend in your guide... (you suggest staying away from weapon spec for the moonlight stalker chain).

Crit Range is nice, but lets take a quick look at overall damage output.

Your Enhanced Attack Routine (spell combat - brand, haste from boots, and Arcane Accuracy) is a
22/22(haste attack)/17/22(bonus attack for Spell Combat - Brand)
doing 1d6+4+3/16-20/x2 (including Keen from Arcane pool)
(Plus Hair but I'm leaving that out of this, because it's the same on both builds).
Assume a target of AC N (for which you hit on less than a 16 and have a chance of missing besides on a nat 1;AC between 37 and 24). You hit if N <= d20+22 x3, d20+17, for a probable hits of (163-4N)/20. You have a 1 in 5 chance of a critical, which then needs to be confirmed by a second successful to hit role. (163-4N)/100 *(163-4N)/80. As it is only a 2x multiplier, your effective number of hits is (163-4N)/20+(163-4N)/100 *(163-4N)/80 , multiplied by an average damage of 10.5.

Comparison, with a Staff Magus
Your Enhanced Attack Routine (spell combat - brand, haste from boots, and Arcane Accuracy) is a
24/24(haste attack)/19/24(bonus attack for Spell Combat - Brand)
doing 1d6+4+5/20/x2 (Not including Keen from Arcane pool)
With the same AC N, probable hits is (171-4N)/20. Criticals are 1 in 20, and need to be confirmed (171-4N)/400 *(171-4N)/80. Effective hits is (171-4N)/20+(171-4N)/400 *(171-4N)/80 , multiplied by an average damage of 12.5.
Which means
AC Expected DMG
Scimitar Staff
37 8.1703125 14.58164063
36 10.4488125 17.15976563
35 12.7693125 19.75039063
34 15.1318125 22.35351563
33 17.5363125 24.96914063
32 19.9828125 27.59726563
31 22.4713125 30.23789063
30 25.0018125 32.89101563
29 27.5743125 35.55664063
28 30.1888125 38.23476563
27 32.8453125 40.92539063
26 35.5438125 43.62851563
25 38.2843125 46.34414063
24 41.0668125 49.07226563

The staff out damages the scimitar, while expending 1 less point of arcane pool. Although I only checked AC up to 37, the gap will not go away as AC increases (although it will decline to 2.5, as at a sufficiently high AC you hit only on natural 20's and confirm only on natural 20's, and the base staff damage is superior by 2.5 pts).


Any suggestions about a bladebound Hexcrafter Build?


Bladebound is an each way archetype for me. Saves you alot of coin in the long run but waiting till 6 for your first arcana.SUX. As an.elf with the favored class option, you'd get 2 at level 6.

Were your game to start at 4 (the level you get your first hex) I'd consider it.
The Staff magus and Bladebound are both pretty good archetypes. Hexcrafter, in my opinion is just the best of all the magus archetypes because it grants so much in return for a good ability, but I'd rather spam my arcana on Arcane Accuracy than blow a point recovering spells. That's me though.


pad300 wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:


As for why no Staff Magus? Don't like losing crit range and the abilities it gives up.
I don't think the buckler works.

Crit range I will discuss further below, but abilities. You mean the ones you aren't using - Med and Heavy Armor proficiencies and Fighter Training. You're wearing light armor (mithril breastplate), and fighter training helps you qualify for feats that need fighter levels. Of which you have zero, and don't recommend in your guide... (you suggest staying away from weapon spec for the moonlight stalker chain).

Crit Range is nice, but lets take a quick look at overall damage output.

Your Enhanced Attack Routine (spell combat - brand, haste from boots, and Arcane Accuracy) is a
22/22(haste attack)/17/22(bonus attack for Spell Combat - Brand)
doing 1d6+4+3/16-20/x2 (including Keen from Arcane pool)
(Plus Hair but I'm leaving that out of this, because it's the same on both builds).
Assume a target of AC N (for which you hit on less than a 16 and have a chance of missing besides on a nat 1;AC between 37 and 24). You hit if N <= d20+22 x3, d20+17, for a probable hits of (163-4N)/20. You have a 1 in 5 chance of a critical, which then needs to be confirmed by a second successful to hit role. (163-4N)/100 *(163-4N)/80. As it is only a 2x multiplier, your effective number of hits is (163-4N)/20+(163-4N)/100 *(163-4N)/80 , multiplied by an average damage of 10.5.

Comparison, with a Staff Magus
Your Enhanced Attack Routine (spell combat - brand, haste from boots, and Arcane Accuracy) is a
24/24(haste attack)/19/24(bonus attack for Spell Combat - Brand)
doing 1d6+4+5/20/x2 (Not including Keen from Arcane pool)
With the same AC N, probable hits is (171-4N)/20. Criticals are 1 in 20, and need to be confirmed (171-4N)/400 *(171-4N)/80. Effective hits is (171-4N)/20+(171-4N)/400 *(171-4N)/80 , multiplied by an average damage of 12.5.
Which means
AC Expected DMG
Scimitar Staff
37 8.1703125 14.58164063
36 10.4488125 17.15976563
35...

I'll consider it in future. This was strictly a HEXCRAFTER GUIDE though.

If you want to write up any synergy notes I will add it to the guide under a section about combining adchetypes.


Hi! Sorry, but i think that a High crit. chance on your weapon is better because of spellstrike... For many reasons: Critting a vamp. touch, or your Empower Intensified SG, might be just better...
I'm Currently playing a Kensai, and i REALLY love to crit over my vamp touchs, i can EASILY mitigate party damage, and i'm the toughest character in our group ! (though i'm the only true min-maxer) ...
I would like to suggest taking Spell blending for Heroism and mainly CALCIFIC TOUCH... I don't remember the name of the thread where somebody clarifies how the spell really works... I might believe it really has a place over the Debuffer build! Heroism ,to me, it's a GREAT spell, i end up using it even for my non-gish characters...
And i truely recommend making a Samsaran (new race in ARG) with Mystic Past Life feature! Some spells make my eyes shine: Fluid Form (alchemist list), Irrestible Dance (bard list), Heal (alchemist list), Freedom of Movement (bard list)...

Dark Archive

Arjuna wrote:

Hi! Sorry, but i think that a High crit. chance on your weapon is better because of spellstrike... For many reasons: Critting a vamp. touch, or your Empower Intensified SG, might be just better...

I'm Currently playing a Kensai, and i REALLY love to crit over my vamp touchs, i can EASILY mitigate party damage, and i'm the toughest character in our group ! (though i'm the only true min-maxer) ...
I would like to suggest taking Spell blending for Heroism and mainly CALCIFIC TOUCH... I don't remember the name of the thread where somebody clarifies how the spell really works... I might believe it really has a place over the Debuffer build! Heroism ,to me, it's a GREAT spell, i end up using it even for my non-gish characters...
And i truely recommend making a Samsaran (new race in ARG) with Mystic Past Life feature! Some spells make my eyes shine: Fluid Form (alchemist list), Irrestible Dance (bard list), Heal (alchemist list), Freedom of Movement (bard list)...

Calcific Touch is an amazing spell, however it's not something a magus should ever try to build around. The issue is it's a 4th level spell from a different spell list. By the time a magus qualifies for it (4th level spell means 10th level magus minimum) and burns an Arcana for it (13th level is the earliest you would ever do this) your adventuring career is 90% over.

Add to it you'd never be able to apply most Metamagic feats or put it in a spell storing weapon/item AND you need to spend at least 3 (more like 6) rounds to really get the benefits from it relegates this to the nice spell but too expensive for me pile.


Varrel Thrunebane wrote:

james, this avatar is the current build.

I am building for quicken later. So given what Varrel can do now what is your suggestion for Spell perfection?

I didn't have much time with it.. my first impression was on the stats.. they seem a bit high, could you break this down for me?

Second you don't have quicken yet, so spell perfection will be at what, 17th level?

My quick impression is that you are dividing your attention between debuffing and damage. I could be wrong in the specific case, but in general that doesn't work all that well.

Another impression is that your main attack stat seems low despite what seems to be an insane point buy (I'm guessing rolled stats?).

Are you building this guy at 13th to play from, or is this the goal to play to? (I'm guessing its the starting point).

You don't know the rest of your group. Rather than commit to be 'karate so-so, middle of road' why not ask a bit and find out more on your group. See if you are going to need to be a heavy hitter, or if your best action most rounds is that evil eye, etc.

Now disclaimer: The only hexcrafter I've built was a multiclass build geared with maneuvers using a whip. At 14th it looked like ftr3 (lore warden)/ magus9 (hexcrafter)/ monk2 (maneuver master) with a greater trip check in the 50s before true strike. The build didn't bother with shocking grasp at all, but could easily leave one shaken, tripped, disarmed and blinded all in one round. Amusingly it's a STR based build but doesn't have power attack and doesn't really look to deal damage (does nonlethal when he does).

I wouldn't use this build if the party needed damage, but it's a great control build.

-James


It's for a PbP game that starts at 13.
We were allowed to roll 2d6+6 per ability score.

I don't know what the DM is gonna pick since we are in the recruitment stage.
This char IS however an evolution of a 5th level varrel I am playing in a curse of the crimson throne game and he kicks ass. (See this avatar for 5th level varrel)

He just got the flight hex and is loving it.
The group consists of a
axe and shield urban barbarian
Sword and board Pally (both of these chars alternate between 2 handed or 1 hand and shield)
A Rogue(sniper)/Crossbowman fighter
An evocation sorcerer gnome
An Illusionist3/Cleric2 headed for mystic thurege.

Generally Varrel is the scout (he and Raven both make.spot checks) and slumbers lone mooks as he encounters them.
In combat he generally uses SG or Frostbite for damage or battle control.
His to hit with Arcane pool alone brings him on par with the pally and one behind the barb.
He is still using glitterdust and Frigid touch to good effect and will use vanish/flight to gain flanking or higher ground bonus. He saves alot of rescources cause slumber is so effective.

I plan to use evil eye a bit to help lower saves for the MT char and myself. Blasting AOE is left to the gnome. So varrel usually self buffs and spike damages. I see no need to hyper specialize since his dual focus between debuff or Striker is working so well.

Now the build will get Quicken and Spell perfection both at level 17. Which spell do you reccomend given the level it will be taken

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I am just not a fan of taking quicken spell on a Magus. Yes I know it's all kinds of awesome but it's sooooo limited for the 2/3rd's casters.
You can either swift cast a first or second level spell or drop 4 feats for spell perfection to do a 3rd or better level spell.

I just find it far to expensive for what it offers and prefer to get the same benefits by spending a bit of cash. I'd rather drop the 35K for a lesser rod of Quicken (17K if you can talk the Wizard into taking the feat) since we'll never need to bother quickening a 4th or better level spell 90% of the time. Or better yet just drop 5K on a AoMF (spell Storing) and keep a spell in there.

Anytime we think we may need an extra spell cast that day drop it in the amulet and use the Prehensile hair to deliver it. Slightly more restrictive then Quicken but considering we'll only ever use it for direct damage spells it should be fine.

Personally I wouldn't take Quicken Spell myself but if you have you're heart set on it I'd go with Vampiric Touch. It's an all around great spell that would really benefit a melee character who has as low a HP max as most Magi tend to.


Yeah I'm really stuck on what spell to stick it on.

See I took Instensify (SG) and Rime (Frostbite) so already had 2 of the 3 preq megamagics anyway. I like dazing cause It's a nice area battle control. Quicken Is obviously awesome.

So I figure either Cone of Cold so I can Qicken a cone+ Daze a cone in the same round.
Problem is I don't have heaps of slots and a cone is not the best area.
Fireball is a better shape but the save is low.

Vampiric touch also sounds like a.good option for tanking while doing single target damage/daze.

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STR Ranger wrote:

Yeah I'm really stuck on what spell to stick it on.

See I took Instensify (SG) and Rime (Frostbite) so already had 2 of the 3 preq megamagics anyway. I like dazing cause It's a nice area battle control. Quicken Is obviously awesome.

So I figure either Cone of Cold so I can Qicken a cone+ Daze a cone in the same round.
Problem is I don't have heaps of slots and a cone is not the best area.
Fireball is a better shape but the save is low.

Vampiric touch also sounds like a.good option for tanking while doing single target damage/daze.

And you can't do it with cone of cold.

cone of cold is a 4th level spell and if you did spend all the resources to get it spell perfected you could quicken OR Dazing it but not both since Dazing is a +3 level adjustment and you don't have any 7th level slots.

This is why I dislike taking most metamagic feats, only having up to 6th level slots REALLY hoses you on which spells you can really use and prevents you from using most metamagics on them at all.
The Magi has very few spell slots and low number of spell levels available so it has a ceiling on what it can metamagic. Add to that the majority of our spells are very narrowly focused so most of the metamagics are really situational. Spending our low number of available feats on something as situationally useful as these just seems like a bad investment. I'd rather take Craft Rod and make a bag full of lesser rods (MAYBE 1 or 2 normal) and use those when I need to apply one of those to a spell. Cheaper, faster and saves you much needed feat slots.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


I'd rather take Craft Rod and make a bag full of lesser rods (MAYBE 1 or 2 normal) and use those when I need to apply one of those to a spell. Cheaper, faster and saves you much needed feat slots.

But don't you need the feets to craft the rods anyway?

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Scripps wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


I'd rather take Craft Rod and make a bag full of lesser rods (MAYBE 1 or 2 normal) and use those when I need to apply one of those to a spell. Cheaper, faster and saves you much needed feat slots.
But don't you need the feets to craft the rods anyway?

Nope, it just increases the DC to craft it by 5 if you don't have it.

The only pre-requisite you HAVE to have for crafting is the required crafting feat, everything else is optional.
(Except for potions, those stink to craft now)


The reason i agree with you Mathwei is that most of the rounds playing as a Magus i don't have enough swift actions to spend... But if you consider that you take Rime Spell, for controlling, and Intensified spell for a little damage, it's not that hard to take another feat and be able to take spell perfection... But i like the option of casting 2 spells per round (and not increase it's slot level due to spell perfection) whenever it's necessary...


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Scripps wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


I'd rather take Craft Rod and make a bag full of lesser rods (MAYBE 1 or 2 normal) and use those when I need to apply one of those to a spell. Cheaper, faster and saves you much needed feat slots.
But don't you need the feets to craft the rods anyway?

Nope, it just increases the DC to craft it by 5 if you don't have it.

The only pre-requisite you HAVE to have for crafting is the required crafting feat, everything else is optional.
(Except for potions, those stink to craft now)

Ah, of course, you're right. Well I had crammed quicken and maximize into THIS build, but now I might have to look at replacing them with craft rod, and retribution for prehensile hair. I feel almost stupid for not thinking of that earlier!

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Avendarel Durathiel wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Scripps wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


I'd rather take Craft Rod and make a bag full of lesser rods (MAYBE 1 or 2 normal) and use those when I need to apply one of those to a spell. Cheaper, faster and saves you much needed feat slots.
But don't you need the feets to craft the rods anyway?

Nope, it just increases the DC to craft it by 5 if you don't have it.

The only pre-requisite you HAVE to have for crafting is the required crafting feat, everything else is optional.
(Except for potions, those stink to craft now)
Ah, of course, you're right. Well I had crammed quicken and maximize into THIS build, but now I might have to look at replacing them with craft rod, and retribution for prehensile hair. I feel almost stupid for not thinking of that earlier!

I usually am though occasionally I like to make a mistake to remind everyone that I'm still human.

@Arjuna, if I want to use two spells in a round I just take an Amulet of Mighty Fists (spell Storing) and put Spell storing on my weapon. That lets me rattle off 3 spells a round (4 if I use Frostbite as my default spell).

Round zero: Cast Frostbite and wander around with it held
Round 1: Spell combat + spellstrike (shocking Grasp, cast after my full attack)

Round 1a: Melee weapon attack (Frostbite goes off), Melee weapon attack #2 (Frostbite goes off again), Spell Storing Goes off (shocking Grasp)

Round 1b: Touch attack with Hair (Frostbite goes off again) AoMF Spell Storing goes off (Shocking Grasp again)

Round 1c: Spell combat: cast Shocking grasp Channel through Prehensile as a touch attack and use a Rod to Maximize/Empower it.
There, three frostbite spell effects (3*(1D6+level)) +3 shocking Grasps in one round. If it survived then you should probably leave but most things die instantly.

After you kill it use a few pearls to reload your spell storing items and recover your spells and go kill the next big bad.


I am not trying to quiken and daze the same spell slot.

What I am saying is you Quicken a Cone.of Cold (swift action, 4 meta+5 spl levs equal nine), THEN YOU spell combat with a (Dazing Cone.of cold 3metamagic+5 =8)

So you cast 2 level 5 spells+ full attack.

Now doing the same with Vampiric Touch nets you an axtra attack but it's single target bs a cone


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

I am just not a fan of taking quicken spell on a Magus. Yes I know it's all kinds of awesome but it's sooooo limited for the 2/3rd's casters.

You can either swift cast a first or second level spell or drop 4 feats for spell perfection to do a 3rd or better level spell.

Depends what you are looking to deliver and what levels you are looking at.

Quicken on a magus is essential for many roles at high levels. It certainly is for damage dealing. I'll contend that it is for more control casting that is more the route of the hexcrafter over the normal magus. At high levels you need something very useful for your swift action as that's to be expected from a caster role.

Spell Perfection makes quicken very viable for bard type casters. Assuming that there are 2 other metamagics that are already part of your build and that there is one spell that you can default to casting each round it's perfect.

For the damage dealing magus it's the quickened empowered elemental(acid) intensified shocking grasp that they've converted a 3rd level slot to using preferred spell. It's cast right after you hit with your spell combat'd non-quickened version that used up a 1st level spell. If the creature is still taking it (and thus will turn around to deliver it in kind), then a spell stored vamp touch or the like gets thrown in there as well.

-James

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james maissen wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

I am just not a fan of taking quicken spell on a Magus. Yes I know it's all kinds of awesome but it's sooooo limited for the 2/3rd's casters.

You can either swift cast a first or second level spell or drop 4 feats for spell perfection to do a 3rd or better level spell.

Depends what you are looking to deliver and what levels you are looking at.

Quicken on a magus is essential for many roles at high levels. It certainly is for damage dealing. I'll contend that it is for more control casting that is more the route of the hexcrafter over the normal magus. At high levels you need something very useful for your swift action as that's to be expected from a caster role.

Spell Perfection makes quicken very viable for bard type casters. Assuming that there are 2 other metamagics that are already part of your build and that there is one spell that you can default to casting each round it's perfect.

For the damage dealing magus it's the quickened empowered elemental(acid) intensified shocking grasp that they've converted a 3rd level slot to using preferred spell. It's cast right after you hit with your spell combat'd non-quickened version that used up a 1st level spell. If the creature is still taking it (and thus will turn around to deliver it in kind), then a spell stored vamp touch or the like gets thrown in there as well.

-James

And I agree with your analysis on the effectiveness if you can get it all going but my issue is this ONLY works at 15+ level. This is when spell perfection comes into play which puts it at the end (or After) most AP's normal run and definitely takes it out of PFS play. This means you have to spend the first 15 levels of play being.. well.. weak while waiting for this uber trick to come into play. You have spent half of your feats on metamagics of which you only really use 2 regularly.

I fully accept that AT 15th level this all comes together in a joygasm of 1 shot power my concern is the 14 levels of meh that comes before it. Since the vast majority of playtime is sub-15th level I personally feel this build is really only useful if you are starting the game at a much higher level.

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