
Discomancer |
1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Hey, all. I'm having a hard time understanding a couple of things about this specific monk archetype and was hoping you could answer them for me.
First, Flurry of Maneuvers replaces Flurry of Blows, but does that mean that an armored monk could use Flurry of Maneuvers? If not, following the logic of FoM replacing FoB in printed areas, could a MM monk then say he qualifies for Monastic Legacy (which requires the Still Mind class feature) even if it is replaced by another feature?
Second, Flurry of Maneuvers reads as thus with attention to the bolded sectioin:
At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the Classes bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry.
Because a monk retains his Combat Maneuver Training class ability, I'm confused as to what the point of this is. Could someone clarify this for me?
EDIT: Also, does this mean that the monk can only make ONE normally standard action maneuver as part of the flurry, are can his previous attack/maneuvers also be normally standard action maneuvers?

Jodokai |

First, Flurry of Maneuvers replaces Flurry of Blows, but does that mean that an armored monk could use Flurry of Maneuvers?
No. The armor restriction isn't in FoB, it's in the Armor and Shield section, which remains unchanged for this archetype.
If not, following the logic of FoM replacing FoB in printed areas, could a MM monk then say he qualifies for Monastic Legacy (which requires the Still Mind class feature) even if it is replaced by another feature?
No. If an archetype replaces a class ability, you are not considered to have that ability.
Second, Flurry of Maneuvers reads as thus with attention to the bolded sectioin:
Flurry of Maneuvers wrote:At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the Classes bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry.Because a monk retains his Combat Maneuver Training class ability, I'm confused as to what the point of this is. Could someone clarify this for me?
A monk normally gets Maneuver Training at 3rd Level, Maneuver Master gets it at 1st level.
EDIT: Also, does this mean that the monk can only make ONE normally standard action maneuver as part of the flurry, are can his previous attack/maneuvers also be normally standard action maneuvers?
a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action
Seems to imply two maneuvers.

Rasmus Wagner |

I disagree with Jodokai's answers.
"At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action".
That means you can perform ONE maneuver, regardless of standard/attack, and then perform the rest of your full attack (in which you can use maneuvers that replace attacks, but not maneuvers that replace standard actions, because you have no standard action to replace.)
When you get multiple bonus maneuvers, you can use each of them for a standard-action maneuver.
It would have to go something like this: "At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver. He may perform combat maneuvers in place of attacks, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action"
Armor? As written, sure. You can't use the class feature called "Flurry of Blows", but you don't have that feature, so whatever.

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Discomancer wrote:First, Flurry of Maneuvers replaces Flurry of Blows, but does that mean that an armored monk could use Flurry of Maneuvers?No. The armor restriction isn't in FoB, it's in the Armor and Shield section, which remains unchanged for this archetype.
Right, so he can't use Flurry of Blows. But he wasn't going to anyway, since he doesn't have that feature.
You can indeed use Flurry of Maneuvers in armor.

Jodokai |

Jodokai wrote:Discomancer wrote:First, Flurry of Maneuvers replaces Flurry of Blows, but does that mean that an armored monk could use Flurry of Maneuvers?No. The armor restriction isn't in FoB, it's in the Armor and Shield section, which remains unchanged for this archetype.Right, so he can't use Flurry of Blows. But he wasn't going to anyway, since he doesn't have that feature.
You can indeed use Flurry of Maneuvers in armor.
Hmm, that's interesting, good point. While I accept it is RAW, I don't believe it is RAI, and if I were GM wouldn't allow it, but that's just personal opinion. RAW disagrees with me.
At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action".
The inclusion of the word additional, implies to me one standard, and another one, even if it is non-standard.

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Jiggy wrote:You can indeed use Flurry of Maneuvers in armor.Hmm, that's interesting, good point. While I accept it is RAW, I don't believe it is RAI, and if I were GM wouldn't allow it, but that's just personal opinion. RAW disagrees with me.
As far as intent goes, this difference between FoM and FoB has been known for a while and (to my knowledge) there's been not the slightest hint or commentary from anyone at Paizo suggesting any intent to the contrary. So if it wasn't the original intent, it certainly seems to at least have been deemed acceptable, near as I can tell.