I'm tinkering around with a Shapeshifter for PFS (or maybe just a vanilla ranger with the Natural Weapon combat style, who knows), and while I find the character build pretty easy to visualize at levels 1 and 2, it all goes fuzzy for me beyond that point.
My stats will look something like:
STR 16 (14+2)
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 9
WIS 14
CHA 7
Feats will be Power Attack at level 1 and Aspect of the Beast for the claws at level 2. I'll also be Toothy for the bite.
The problem is, beyond this point everything just kinda peters out for me (other than the Bear form for the +4 Str). Anyone have any ideas where to take such a character?
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As someone playing this exact character for PFS I'll give you 3 pieces of advice I've learned from playing my natural weapon using ranger.
1. Do NOT take the shapeshifter archetype. You are giving up your Favored terrain ability for a strength bonus that doesn't stack with 90% of all other strength enhancers (no belt of strnegth for you) for a few rounds a day. Favored Terrain is amazingly useful if you pick the right terrains (urban and then underground), a +6 to initiative, perception, stealth and survival by 8th level that stacks with EVERYTHING is worth so much more.
2. You're a half orc, play up the intimidate strength of your character. Grab one of the MANY feats that lets you use intimidate when you attack to keep your opponents shaken (or frightened if you dip rogue thug) whenever you hit.
Currently I'm rocking +24 to my intimidate checks and NOONE gets an attack against me or my party.
3. Finally make sure you pick up the Wolf AC, his trip attack, large size and massive bite damage makes him one of the top picks for AC. (make sure you grab the boon companion feat to kick up his effective level, it's sooo worth it.)
OK, so straight ranger. The build is looking like Power Attack at level 1, Cornugon Smash at level 3, and Boon Companion at level 5.
Any other suggestions?
You can't get Cornugon Smash until 7th, (6th as a Fighter). It has a prerequisite of 6 ranks in Intimidate.
I've played something similar as a Guide before and although it's not amazingly helpful in combat (although it can help in certain combat situations) I had taken Keen Scent for flavor since I was tracking things and sort of the primitive party member in the group. If you bumb up Intimidate you could also throw in Smell Fear. Those are suggestions playing off of the hunter part of the Ranger though. Other feats to consider would be Intimidating Prowess, Skill Focus (Intimidate), and Furious Focus.
I'm playing a similar character in one game. I went Dragon with my shapeshifting. The +2 AC saved me a couple times, especially since I've been rolling crap on my HP rolls. I also plan on taking the eldritch heritage feats (Draconic of course) later. This is all for story reasons more than optimization though.
You can't get Cornugon Smash until 7th, (6th as a Fighter). It has a prerequisite of 6 ranks in Intimidate.
*Grumble* Yep.
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Well another thing you will NEED to do is buy you an amulet of mighty fists as soon as you have the PA for it.
If you really want to go down the intimidate optimization route then you'll want to pick up the Enforcer feat at 3rd an AoMF (merciful) at 4th and at 5th take a level of rogue (thug archetype) and grab Boon Companion then.
This setup makes every natural attack let you make an intimidate check that Frightens every target you hit for 3 or more damage. The wolf flanks and lets you sneak attack while it trips anyone you frighten who tries to run away.
It's a brutal combo, you're doing 1D4 +2D6 +str (and favored enemy) on each hit and making the target run which provokes an AoO from you and the wolf and you're against a target who can't attack you back.
Also (and I love this part), there is no save against this fear effect. You make a roll against a really easy DC (10 +targets HD +wis bonus) and boom, Feared.
Just keep your Strength and Intimidate scores up and spend your cash on whatever you want. (Just remember this trick doesn't work on Undead or Constructs)
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Well another thing you will NEED to do is buy you an amulet of mighty fists as soon as you have the PA for it.
If you really want to go down the intimidate optimization route then you'll want to pick up the Enforcer feat at 3rd an AoMF (merciful) at 4th and at 5th take a level of rogue (thug archetype) and grab Boon Companion then.This setup makes every natural attack let you make an intimidate check that Frightens every target you hit for 3 or more damage. The wolf flanks and lets you sneak attack while it trips anyone you frighten who tries to run away.
It's a brutal combo, you're doing 1D4 +2D6 +str (and favored enemy) on each hit and making the target run which provokes an AoO from you and the wolf and you're against a target who can't attack you back.
Also (and I love this part), there is no save against this fear effect. You make a roll against a really easy DC (10 +targets HD +wis bonus) and boom, Feared.
Just keep your Strength and Intimidate scores up and spend your cash on whatever you want. (Just remember this trick doesn't work on Undead or Constructs)
Therefore make your second favoured enemy undead for a bit more punch against them. The first favoured enemy should always be human.
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Therefore make your second favoured enemy undead for a bit more punch against them. The first favoured enemy should always be human.Well another thing you will NEED to do is buy you an amulet of mighty fists as soon as you have the PA for it.
If you really want to go down the intimidate optimization route then you'll want to pick up the Enforcer feat at 3rd an AoMF (merciful) at 4th and at 5th take a level of rogue (thug archetype) and grab Boon Companion then.This setup makes every natural attack let you make an intimidate check that Frightens every target you hit for 3 or more damage. The wolf flanks and lets you sneak attack while it trips anyone you frighten who tries to run away.
It's a brutal combo, you're doing 1D4 +2D6 +str (and favored enemy) on each hit and making the target run which provokes an AoO from you and the wolf and you're against a target who can't attack you back.
Also (and I love this part), there is no save against this fear effect. You make a roll against a really easy DC (10 +targets HD +wis bonus) and boom, Feared.
Just keep your Strength and Intimidate scores up and spend your cash on whatever you want. (Just remember this trick doesn't work on Undead or Constructs)
+1000 to this.
First favored enemy must ALWAYS be human and it should also be the one you stack the highest (by 12th level you should be at +6 vs humans).I'm actually having second thoughts about undead as the 2nd favorite though (for PFS). PFS undead tend to either by low, low level skeletons and zombies (or other easy to beat undead) or rare high level unique critters. For the low level they die so fast it's pointless to add the favored enemy bonus and for the high level... I don't want to get that close (even with a bow).
For my next Ranger I'm seriously considering taking evil outsider as my 2nd choice. They are a lot more common then undead and are usually challenging enough to actually need the bonus. Add to that the free chance to identify them means I won't need dump many points into knowledge: planes.
I'm having second thoughts about taking the shapeshifter archetype again. Sure, the +4 STR won't stack with a belt or anything, but do you normally get to +6 belts during the 12 levels of PFS play?
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I'm having second thoughts about taking the shapeshifter archetype again. Sure, the +4 STR won't stack with a belt or anything, but do you normally get to +6 belts during the 12 levels of PFS play?
Remember you only get that bonus for your level +wis mod per DAY AND you can only do it once per day. So for one fight a day you are getting a +2 to hit and damage in exchange for giving up a +4(6) to perception, stealth, Initiative and Survival for ALL day. Also by 6th - 7th level you'll have more then enough cash for a belt that gives you the same bonus PLUS the +6 to everything else.
Does that really sound worth it to you?
Thanks, guys!
First, taking your racial bonus in a stat that isn't your highest stat is a waste of points. And you probably need strength more than dexterity.
For level dips the above mentioned thug is probably the best, though barbarian is nearly always a good dip for a melee character.
I made sure I got 16 DEX in order to be able to make the most use of a breastplate. Everything beyond that would go into STR.
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I made sure I got 16 DEX in order to be able to make the most use of a breastplate. Everything beyond that would go into STR.First, taking your racial bonus in a stat that isn't your highest stat is a waste of points. And you probably need strength more than dexterity.
For level dips the above mentioned thug is probably the best, though barbarian is nearly always a good dip for a melee character.
Not worth it IMO. An ioun stone or upgrading your belt will up your dexterity.
I'm tinkering around with a Shapeshifter for PFS (or maybe just a vanilla ranger with the Natural Weapon combat style, who knows), and while I find the character build pretty easy to visualize at levels 1 and 2, it all goes fuzzy for me beyond that point.
My stats will look something like:
STR 16 (14+2)
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 9
WIS 14
CHA 7Feats will be Power Attack at level 1 and Aspect of the Beast for the claws at level 2. I'll also be Toothy for the bite.
The problem is, beyond this point everything just kinda peters out for me (other than the Bear form for the +4 Str). Anyone have any ideas where to take such a character?
The reason you're having problems past level 2 is that you haven't changed over to Barbarian and grabbed Fiend Totem, Lesser as your first Rage Power, giving you a 4th natural attack while using Rage. >.>
As mentioned in another thread, another important dip is Unarmed Fighter at level 5, giving you Imp Unarmed, Feral Combat, and Dragon Style in one handy-dandy level.
A bite and a gore don't preclude one another in a single attack round, do they? I'm perfectly fine with cheese so long as it's legal cheese.
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A bite and a gore don't preclude one another in a single attack round, do they? I'm perfectly fine with cheese so long as it's legal cheese.
You're fine using both.
Actually, that might pull you ahead for shapeshifter again:
Str 17, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 7
Barb 1 Power Attack
Rang 2
Rang 3 Aspect of the Beast, Weapon Focus: Claws
Barb 4 Lesser Fiend Totem
Figh 5 Dragon Style, Feral Combat Training (Claws), Improved Unarmed Strike
Rang 6 Endurance, Shifter's Blessing (Dragon)
Barb 7 Raging Vitality
Barb 8 Lesser Elemental Rage
Barb 9 Stunning Fist
Barb 10 Fiend Totem
Barb 11 Dragon Ferocity
Barb 12 Elemental Rage
No animal companion, but a lot of rounds of rage and the ability to grab some neat powers to dress up your claws.
A bite and a gore don't preclude one another in a single attack round, do they? I'm perfectly fine with cheese so long as it's legal cheese.You're fine using both.
Actually, that might pull you ahead for shapeshifter again:
Str 17, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 7
Barb 1 Power Attack
Rang 2
Rang 3 Aspect of the Beast, Weapon Focus: Claws
Barb 4 Lesser Fiend Totem
Figh 5 Dragon Style, Feral Combat Training (Claws), Improved Unarmed Strike
Rang 6 Endurance, Shifter's Blessing (Dragon)
Barb 7 Raging Vitality
Barb 8 Lesser Elemental Rage
Barb 9 Stunning Fist
Barb 10 Fiend Totem
Barb 11 Dragon Ferocity
Barb 12 Elemental RageNo animal companion, but a lot of rounds of rage and the ability to grab some neat powers to dress up your claws.
Sneak in 1 level of Martial Artist Monk at 6, Dragon Ferocity at 7. RAWR! (This makes your single attack on Standards and charges have a 2xSTR mod, so it's pretty important/brutal)
I'd honestly just drop Ranger after 2 levels. Its only redeeming value for this build is to get the claws in a non-Rage setting and, arguably, to get the FE: Human access.