Intimidate has the ability to use Demoralize.
My question being is this ability a Fear affect? Logic in my head would tell me it is because a guy would come up use this I assume screaming and growling in order to "intimidate" you.
and for that matter is Intimidate as a whole a fear affect? Would features like Bravery or the pally's aura negate said affects?
Intimidate is not a fear effect as per RAW.
But the use of Intimidate to Demoralize causes the target to be Shaken, which is a Fear effect.
Only if something specifically says it is a Fear effect, is it a Fear effect.
The same goes for all other effects. Just because something might cause instant death, doesn't mean its a Death effect. It would have to specifically say "This is a Death effect."
then what causes that shaken affect? Would said status of shaken not come from being afraid of your opponent? Or am I just looking to far into that? All I really want is what kind of affect is it? Because to say its simply intimidating is kinda bland and doesn't make any sense even if it does not state it is a fear affect.
Is there somewhere other than under the skill that says what kind of affect it is? or is it effectively (for lack of a better word) Effectless.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/intimidate
To add the skill states that "You can use this skill to FRIGHTEN your opponents or to get them to act in a way that benefits you. This skill includes verbal threats and displays of prowess."
and under shaken it states, Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked. "Which both sound like states of FEAR to me". So one would think one would have to be afraid to become shaken by somebody intimidating them
guess my title was misleading considering how much more complex I'm making things XD.
Not to be a smart-arse but:
in·tim·i·date [in-tim-i-deyt]
verb (used with object), in·tim·i·dat·ed, in·tim·i·dat·ing.
1.to make timid; fill with fear.
2.to overawe or cow, as through the force of personality or by superior display of wealth, talent, etc.
3.to force into or deter from some action by inducing fear: to intimidate a voter into staying away from the polls.
Yes it's a fear effect. This is really just common sense people.
Do you really try to play this way? I can't imagine the legalese and minutia you must waste time arguing over in your games.
As far as the rules are concerned, Intimidate is not a fear effect. Everything that is a fear effect clearly says so. If we just went by whatever feels like it should be a fear effect, there would be no reason to specifically call out various abilities as fear effects. Nor would there be a need to specify what is a mind-affecting effect, or a death effect.
So a Paladin can be intimidated or demoralized?
And can even be given the Afraid of Panicked condition via fear stacking of non-fear effect sources like demoralize and Chill Touch?
Good to know.
Though use of the intimidate skill is not technically a fear effect, the shaken condition IS a fear effect.
It is clearly pointed out as such in the PRD's glossary under "Fear."
That generally makes paladins immune to all the primary aspects of the intimidate skill.
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Though use of the intimidate skill is not technically a fear effect, the shaken condition IS a fear effect.
It is clearly pointed out as such in the PRD's glossary under "Fear."
That generally makes paladins immune to all the primary aspects of the intimidate skill.
This seems to be a list of conditions that occur as a result of fear effects, and not fear effects themselves. There are things that create these conditions that are not fear effects.
This seems to be a list of conditions that occur as a result of fear effects, and not fear effects themselves. There are things that create these conditions that are not fear effects.Though use of the intimidate skill is not technically a fear effect, the shaken condition IS a fear effect.
It is clearly pointed out as such in the PRD's glossary under "Fear."
That generally makes paladins immune to all the primary aspects of the intimidate skill.
By that logic, the intimidate skill is a fear effect, is it not?
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By that logic, the intimidate skill is a fear effect, is it not?This seems to be a list of conditions that occur as a result of fear effects, and not fear effects themselves. There are things that create these conditions that are not fear effects.Though use of the intimidate skill is not technically a fear effect, the shaken condition IS a fear effect.
It is clearly pointed out as such in the PRD's glossary under "Fear."
That generally makes paladins immune to all the primary aspects of the intimidate skill.
No, as I stated, there are things that can create these conditions that are not fear effects. Fear effects are often the cause though, as fear effects don't really create any other condition than those listed.
No, as I stated, there are things that can create these conditions that are not fear effects.
What are they? Name five outside of intimidate. Examples will only serve to strengthen your case.
"Fear
Spells, magic items, and certain monsters can affect characters with fear"
Would have been nice of them to add intimidate to that blurb if they meant it as a fear effect.
Thanks BBT.
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Hmm, the RAW seems to be a grey area here.
From a common sense point of view, I would regard use of the Intimidate skill to demoralize an enemy and make them shaken, a fear effect.
I would rule that paladins are immune. Otherwise we have a situation where a paladin is unfazed by a colossal dragon, but a halfling rogue or a gnome barbarian could make them shaken.
That would be unfair to those with class abilities that them immune to the shaken and frightened conditions, but not fear effects.
Chill Touch does not bestow a fear effect. The spell states "flee as if panicked" the key in there is "as if" it doesn't give them the shaken condition which it would if it were a fear effect. Also the link above states that "fear effects are cumulative" shaken, frightened, and panicked are all fear effects, doesn't matter the source. The immunities to some but not all is similar to having immunity to mind-affecting but not all enchantment.
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"Shaken
A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked."
Note that Shaken condition from Intimidate can't turn into higher state of fear so it's not technicly fear effect, merely a state of fear.
I think this is a case of if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. I can't think of any use of the consept of intimidation that doesn't involve scaring someone.
It seems silly to think people feel its okay to bully paladins using intimidate to get their lunch money because someone didn't label it a fear effect.
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I think this is a case of if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. I can't think of any use of the consept of intimidation that doesn't involve scaring someone.
It seems silly to think people feel its okay to bully paladins using intimidate to get their lunch money because someone didn't label it a fear effect.
I know of furries that walk and talk like ducks.
Should you disagree with how it works, then feel free to houserule.In the end, intimidate is not listed as a fear effect, and that's RAW.
I love the thought of some poor, starving paladin watching that half-orc bully drink away his lunch money...