Optimizing the Melee Bard: I'm not convinced by the Arcane Duelist


Advice


I'm looking at Bard Options right now, and I'm considering the Melee Bard as the best choice in many campaigns mostly because it adds just that much more versatility as the ultimate support character. You are the Flanking Buddy. With Tactical Acumen, at level 10 you're able to add an extra +2 to your flanking buddy's to-hit. Any TWF friend would kill for that.

Through positioning yourself on the battlefield plus inspire courage, at level 11 you are able to grant allies up to a +7 to their to-hit, and with Discordant Voice you're adding +3+1d6 damage to your friend's damage.

I'm not sure the Archer Bard would be able to perform such benefits as easily since he'd be dependent on other allies actually getting in to provide the flank instead, though in the right party I'd say the Archer Bard is still a fine choice.

Anyway, while trying to optimize for Melee damage as something to do while not providing support, I keep looking at the Arcane Duelist, and I keep wondering what people see in this archetype.

Arcane Strike is totally necessary after the first round for damage, but you can just pick up the feat, you don't need to give up bardic knowledge for it.

6 extra feats are cool, but not really better than Versatile Performance for a couple of reasons. Versatile Performance not only saves you skill points, but it allows you to dump DEX while still being able to maintain a decent bonus to your Acrobatics if you have at least a 16 charisma. Besides that, the Spellbreaker feats just aren't that good, and while Penetrating strike could be nice, you don't get it until way late and you could easily just carry a variety of weapons anyway. Bladethirst is also very lackluster. While I don't think you'll ever be using Suggestion or Mass Suggestion which it replaces, enhancement bonuses are bad, it's single target, and the extra powers pale in comparison to just using Inspire Courage with Discordant Voice. You COULD use Shadowbard to maintain it, but I'm not sure it's even worth the standard action and the 4th level spell most of the time.

What I'm looking at is the Savage Skald. If I pick up a Falchion as my Half-Elf ancestral weapon, I'd have a good chance of starting a song with a critical strike with inspiring blow which synergizes pretty well with lingering performance. The Berzerkergang Song is also very good, I think, and totally a better standard action cast with Shadow Bard, especially as it starts to effect more than one creature.

Are there any other good Melee Bard options available? And is there anything that I'm missing about the Arcane Duelist? Because that archetype looks pretty sub-optimal to me...


I'm not a fan of the arcane duelist, solely for the Arcane Bond that needs to be a weapon. It's fine if you just do combat, but the second you wish to cast a spell out of combat...well it's strange enough to be casting spells in public. Doing so while waving your sword around while shouting arcane incantations?

Yea, that's a one-way trip to the asylum.


Cheapy wrote:

I'm not a fan of the arcane duelist, solely for the Arcane Bond that needs to be a weapon. It's fine if you just do combat, but the second you wish to cast a spell out of combat...well it's strange enough to be casting spells in public. Doing so while waving your sword around while shouting arcane incantations?

Yea, that's a one-way trip to the asylum.

Well, not to mention that for an already spontaneous caster, Arcane Bond seems to be more of a bane than a boon.

One extra spell per day is kind of nice, but if your weapon gets sundered you're screwed. The item creation aspect of it is a plus though.


Archetypes to consider:

Archaeologist: Luck bonus to own rolls instead of bardic performance, uncanny dodge, rogue talents (no sneak attack however, so no sneak attack talents) but allows taking a combat-useful feat or two this way.

Dawnflower Dervish: Again, buffs self-only but with doubled bonus of regular bardic performance and gets Dervish Dance feat for free.

Dervish Dancer: Another self-buffing archetype. Its battle dance grants regular bonuses instead of double, despite working almost exactly as Dawnflower Dervish dance, otherwise. Maybe it should be querried if this difference is intended. While lacks free Dervish Dance feat it can gains hasting dance at 6th level.

The weak point of all these archetypes is lack of regular bardic performance preventing buffing the whole party.


I think the Arcane Duelist has a different goal than you want. It isn't so much for the "Bard who Fights," but for the "Fighter who is a Bard." The sort that is not particularly interested in skills and doesn't mind switching out powerful skill boosters that they aren't going to use for situational combat bonuses. Free Arcane Strike saves a feat for a feat starved class, eventual Heavy Armor Proficiency can really help AC, and Bladethirst can be situationaly great (ghost touch, seeking) and eventually edges out Inspire Courage if you are fighting alone. While by no means better on the whole than a straight Bard, and probably not what you are looking for with your Bard, I do think Arcane Duelist can fit its niche quite well.

As for other melee options, have you looked at the Chelish Diva? They get Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency and can cast while wearing it, and much sooner than the Arcane Duelist. If you were looking more at combat and social skills than knowledge for your Bard, it might be an option to consider.

EDIT:

Cheapy wrote:
I'm not a fan of the arcane duelist, solely for the Arcane Bond that needs to be a weapon.

Even though I like the archetype, the Arcane Bond IS pretty awful. One spontaneous spell for a spontaneous casting class in exchange for being far easier to shut down and creating social problems? Ugh.


I'm wrapping up CoT as a bard with some melee focus and here is what I have learned:

1) Two melee is enough, once you get to three melee guys it begins to really hamper things in tight spaces.
2) There's enough tight space fights to consider some ranged alternatives
3) Bards are best when you think of them as utility/support first and melee or ranged second. I can put up some okay damage for one hit, but I'm not keeping up with the DPR machine that is the party rogue.
4) Plan ahead. Do not deviate from the plan unless you have a solid mechanical reason.
5) The arcane duelist is not a fighter, it's an elegantly constructed interrupter who needs to take whip and the associated feats to threaten. You need to be up near combat for your song to work anyway. Again, utility first, fighting second, and he brings another style of utility.


Inspire Courage does not have a range limit. You just need to hear or see, and that's trivial.


Hmm... Arcane Duelist with a Whip...

Intriguing idea.

What if I took that AND lunge AND combat patrol?

Perhaps then my primary stat could be Charisma focusing on Dazzling Display, and having Dexterity as a Secondary...

Hmm.... The thing I don't like about the Whip is that it doesn't threaten squares beyond Melee. Also, do you really get anything out of Arcane Strike using a whip?

Edit: Found the Whip Mastery feats...

Not a terrible idea... AOE flanking definitely fits the bill I'm looking for.

Still not convinced that I have to be an Arcane Duelist to pull it off though. However increasing threat range may make the spellbreaker feats a little better...


Lunge wouldn't help with combat patrol, as it ends at the end of your turn (but the penalty lasts until the next).

The Whip MAstery line of feats from UC gives the whip some reach, but maxes out at 10', I think.


Cheapy wrote:

Lunge wouldn't help with combat patrol, as it ends at the end of your turn (but the penalty lasts until the next).

The Whip Mastery line of feats from UC gives the whip some reach, but maxes out at 10', I think.

Yeah, it seems like it. But it does add an extra 5' to your combat patrol if you go that route...

The problem with the Whip and Bard is that it's tempting to do some of the combat maneuvers associated with the whip, but unless you're a full BAB character combat maneuvers are extremely sub-optimal as you would have on average a 25% chance of success, if that.


Well, no. Combat Patrol is mainly for the parts between your turns. Enemies won't be provoking too much on your turn :)

I cannot recommend trying to trip with a whip bard unless you go all out. Otherwise you'll be playing catchup most of the game, and become useless once the fliers or guys with more than 2 legs come out. (or 4 legs? too lazy to look up, and the point remains)


The Combat Patrol route might work if you have a lot of melee in your party. The way I read it, since it's increasing your threatened area, it should allow you to flank anything in that area. If you have three other melee people in your party, this could be very useful. If not, then it's probably a waste of feats unless you can deal serious damage with any AoO you get.

As far as tripping things (or any combat maneuver), that's not really a viable option for most classes with less than full BAB. CMD scales like mad on high CR monsters, and even full BAB characters have to dedicate their entire build to be able to overcome that. About the only 75% BAB tripper build that I've seen be viable is a feral druid (stegosaurus tail attack FTW!).

Edit: Also, Combat Patrol would defeat any attempts you make to dump dexterity.


if you go combat patrol, get string or percussion and get the masterpiece triple time at level three


Aren't you able to use TWF adn cast with said Arcane Duelist?


Yes, you can cast through your arcane bonded weapon eventually.


Vuvu wrote:
if you go combat patrol, get string or percussion and get the masterpiece triple time at level three

That's a pretty neat Masterpiece in general.

Doesn't stack with Expeditious Retreat, but pretty nice.


nope, but there is something inherently awesome about giving +10ft to your whole party by level 5 for an hour for 1 BP round. And you can always override it with ER


I'm also unconvinced by Arcane Duelist. Archeologist w/ its swift action activation for luck as an archer bard and Dawnflower Dervish w/ its doubled bonuses for inspire courage and dex for everything doing melee seem more useful. But they're also "selfish" and can't share the inspire bonuses with others.

Triple Time is probably the only masterpiece worth learning, IMO. But I'm not sure its worth the feat or spell known to obtain. Perhaps later on once you can get the whole party and are coming up on 3rd level spells that spell known is less pricy to pay.


If you want to share something you could take a look at the flagbearer feat.
I really like it and my next pc will most likely have it.
The Attack and weapon damage part even stacks with inspire courage.
And it completely stacks with the archeologists luck ability.

So if you want to and have the hand free for the banner go archeologist and take flagbearer for some shared buffs and a lot of self buffs at marginal action costs. (Just a swift action to start the luck, no action for flagbearer)


The reason you aren't convinced by the Arcane Duelist is because the Dervish Dancer is way better

Liberty's Edge

It really depends on what you're aiming for.

As a mage-killer specifically (as befits the name) an Arcane Duelist is excellent. Probably the best available in that role. But that's awfully specific.

As a 'selfish Bard' focusing on personal prowess at the expense of companions, Archaeologist is nice...but honestly Dervish Dancer and Dawnflower Dervish are better in a fight (as befits the Archaeologists more Rogue-like/skill-based role). Dawnflower Dervish even keeps Versatile Performance (though not Bardic Knowledge), and gives up his Bardic Knowledge for Dervish Dance, a much better Feat than Arcane Strike.

As a general combatant and non-selfish Bard (my favorite of these options) the normal Bard is actually damn close to being the best all on its own, but Savage Skald probably takes pride of place away from it by just a bit (but usually not by enough to matter).

Other Archetypes are cool, but none of them are really the best as a Melee Bard.


Still intrigued by the Whip Bard providing a 10' flank area, so I went ahead and did a support-damage-added analyses using the Party Barbarian.

Using Shoelessinsight's Average Damage per Round calculator, this is what I come up with for a pure support bard who focuses on providing flanks with Tactical Acumen.

Assumptions:
Level 11
30 Enemy AC
13 total STR Modifier on Barbarian
Barbarian is optimized for Damage with Orc Bite and Totem Gore attack

Barbarian + Bard Analyses
Barbarian w/out Bard: 71.89

w/ Bard Round 1 (just Inspire Courage w/ Discordant Voice): 113.22

w/ Bard Round 1 (If Bard Casts Haste with standard action): 119.99

w/ Bard Round 2 (Haste, Good Hope): 152.99

w/ Bard Round 3 (Haste, Good Hope, Flank, Tactical Acumen): 194.88

Total bonus: 271% increase to damage

I realize as I'm posting this that I forgot to include the +1 to hit from the Haste Spell.

But as you can see, without attacking at all, the Support Melee bard is adding, on average, 123 damage to ONE CHARACTER. I defy you to pull that off with a Selfish Bard!

Actually, by himself the Selfish Bard might be able to pull off that damage with similar buffs. However this analyses isn't considering the Party TWF Rogue at all, who likes Flanks and bonuses to hit more than any class.

Btw, I decided Combat Patrol has too big a feat tax for someone who is dumping dex to avoid ANOTHER feat with Weapon Finesse. This is also assuming a base Bard or Savage Skald, not that him being Arcane Duelist would affect these numbers much either.

Also, as far as Masterpieces go, I really like the house of imaginary walls act. Bards don't get Wall of Stone or anything like that, and if you're lacking battlefield control in a dungeon, it's not a horrible action for your Shadowbard to perform (Though is it worth a 5th level spell? Well for hilarity levels, I'd say yes.)

Liberty's Edge

KaptainKrunch wrote:

But as you can see, without attacking at all, the Support Melee bard is adding, on average, 123 damage to ONE CHARACTER. I defy you to pull that off with a Selfish Bard!

Actually, by himself the Selfish Bard might be able to pull off that damage with similar buffs. However this analyses isn't considering the Party TWF Rogue at all, who likes Flanks and bonuses to hit more than any class.

I vastly prefer a non-selfish Bard myself, but I'll note that everything done in the example except Inspire Courage could just as easily be done with a Dawnflower Dervish or other selfish Bard. So the difference isn't as huge as it might be.

Still, non-selfish Bards are vastly better if you have even a couple of martial characters available to enhance.


Umbranus wrote:

If you want to share something you could take a look at the flagbearer feat.

I really like it and my next pc will most likely have it.
The Attack and weapon damage part even stacks with inspire courage.
And it completely stacks with the archeologists luck ability.

So if you want to and have the hand free for the banner go archeologist and take flagbearer for some shared buffs and a lot of self buffs at marginal action costs. (Just a swift action to start the luck, no action for flagbearer)

Interesting feat.

I think as a Bard though taking the standard action to put down a Good Hope spell trumps it, at least while the duration lasts. It IS nice that you basically don't have to do anything for the flag bonus, and it'd give me something to do with my other hand that's not holding the Whip.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
KaptainKrunch wrote:

But as you can see, without attacking at all, the Support Melee bard is adding, on average, 123 damage to ONE CHARACTER. I defy you to pull that off with a Selfish Bard!

Actually, by himself the Selfish Bard might be able to pull off that damage with similar buffs. However this analyses isn't considering the Party TWF Rogue at all, who likes Flanks and bonuses to hit more than any class.

I vastly prefer a non-selfish Bard myself, but I'll note that everything done in the example except Inspire Courage could just as easily be done with a Dawnflower Dervish or other selfish Bard. So the difference isn't as huge as it might be.

Still, non-selfish Bards are vastly better if you have even a couple of martial characters available to enhance.

True, but shared Inspire Courage represents about 40 damage by itself there. I'd only need one more martial character to really kill the Dervish.

Also note that the Bard is casting spells with his first three standard actions here, not attacking, so if the Dawnflower Dervish was stacking on the same things, she doesn't get to benefit from it until turn 4.

(Standard Actions for Rounds 1-3: Haste, Good Hope, Tactical Acumen.)

Sovereign Court

Be Selfish. Go Dervish. Dawnflower Dervish that is.


Aazen wrote:
Be Selfish. Go Dervish.

Be even more selfish. Go Magus.


Aazen wrote:
Be Selfish. Go Dervish.

Heh, but wouldn't going a Full BAB class be a more effective way of being selfish?

Or Magus for that matter :P


Bladethirst is nice and you don't loose much to get it. However, you are more than likely not going to use it because you can only use one performance at a time and inspire courage will always be the better choice. However, once you get 4th level spells this changes. At this point you can inspire courage and bladethirst at the same time. The problem is...your trading away a lot of goodies for an ability that your not going to use for quite a while. So I went looking for something that would fill that gap in the low levels and not hurt the overall progression of the Arcane Duelist.

As such, the Arcane Duelist doesn't loose much at all if you dip a little into Dragon Disciple (4 lvls). You can go 5 levels in Arcane Duelist, then 4 levels in DD, and then pick back up. Delaying bladethirst doesn't hurt because you wouldn't be using it anyway. DD progresses spellcasting so by the time you go back to Arcane duelist you are much closer to being able to actually use bladethirst and inspire courage together. In addition you gain +4 Str, +3 nat armor, 3 caster levels, a free feat, claws and a bite attack, energy resistance 5, and a breath weapon. Not a bad trade at all.


Lab_Rat wrote:

Bladethirst is nice and you don't loose much to get it. However, you are more than likely not going to use it because you can only use one performance at a time and inspire courage will always be the better choice. However, once you get 4th level spells this changes. At this point you can inspire courage and bladethirst at the same time. The problem is...your trading away a lot of goodies for an ability that your not going to use for quite a while. So I went looking for something that would fill that gap in the low levels and not hurt the overall progression of the Arcane Duelist.

As such, the Arcane Duelist doesn't loose much at all if you dip a little into Dragon Disciple (4 lvls). You can go 5 levels in Arcane Duelist, then 4 levels in DD, and then pick back up. Delaying bladethirst doesn't hurt because you wouldn't be using it anyway. DD progresses spellcasting so by the time you go back to Arcane duelist you are much closer to being able to actually use bladethirst and inspire courage together. In addition you gain +4 Str, +3 nat armor, 3 caster levels, a free feat, claws and a bite attack, energy resistance 5, and a breath weapon. Not a bad trade at all.

I don't disagree that the DD is a good prestige for the Arcane Duelist, but I would recommend not taking DD until one has 7 levels in Bard. Move action to start a performance is just way too powerful to delay.


Be a team player. DD gives 2x inspire to you. Real bards give 3x inspire across the whole party.

Feel free to swap out versatile performance. It's good, but it steals the rogue's job. You may never use acrobatics.

I'm not seeing anything that trumps Inspire Courage on the Savage Skald.

I'd seriously look at Arcane Duelist again. The arcane bond may be inconvenient in some circumstances, but it does mean you can use a heavy shield without messing up your casting. You eventually get into heavier armor. Light armor with dumped dex is sad. Light armor with a heavy shield and eventually medium armor is less sad. Arcane Strike is a feat you want anyways. By level 5 it's Weapon Specialization, and by level 15 greater. Enchant without a feat on your weapon (or perhaps better still on your shield) is a pretty big draw. Try to get your hands on something adamantine by level 5 for maximum sunder difficulty.


I'd say you guys are undervaluing the arcane bond a bit.

In addition to a free extra spell, the bond let's the bard be up one on weapon enchantments over the party at any given time.

The lower spell levels on the bard make concentration checks a bit easier as well. In the (not everyday) situation that the bard has to cast without a weapon you're looking at a DC 26 or less concentration check. If my mid-level bard is doing this I'm adding a whole lot to that.

Your benefit is being one of the only arcane options that can twf/sword and board/two-hand while casting, running separate party buffs, and do so from inside a tin can.

Arcane bond trades some noncombat options for way more combat choices. That seems to fit the flavor of the archetype well

(edit cuz typing on tablets is hard)

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Cheapy wrote:
Yes, you can cast through your arcane bonded weapon eventually.

How does this work? I wasn't aware that you could cast a spell and attack unless you're a magus...

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Any bard can actually do decent support melee. 3/4 BAB and they can buff themselves along with everyone else, plus they have good buff spells.

So it's all about what you want for flavor specifically. All the options suggested are good--and beyond (I even like magician and archivist for various reasons).

I always think of the arcane duelist as the archetype who duels arcanists -- a warrior-mage specializing in fighting other spellcasters (hence the disruptive and spellbreaker lines). Being able to specialize weapon enhancements to a situation is really cool too. It's my favorite "gish" type character (I'd rather play an arcane duelist than a magus), but it's not the only way to play a melee bard.

And savage skald is an awesome option, especially with playing off Intimidate a lot.


cartmanbeck wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Yes, you can cast through your arcane bonded weapon eventually.
How does this work? I wasn't aware that you could cast a spell and attack unless you're a magus...

He can't cast through the arcane bond in the sense that a magus can but the Arcane duelist can use his sword for the somatic component of casting. This, however, does not solve the fact that the Arcane duelist still needs a free hand for material components(unless they take eschew materials as a feat).


Cheapy wrote:
Inspire Courage does not have a range limit. You just need to hear or see, and that's trivial.

LOL, all the bonuses we've lost over the last 10 levels... oh god.


Lab_Rat wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Yes, you can cast through your arcane bonded weapon eventually.
How does this work? I wasn't aware that you could cast a spell and attack unless you're a magus...
He can't cast through the arcane bond in the sense that a magus can but the Arcane duelist can use his sword for the somatic component of casting. This, however, does not solve the fact that the Arcane duelist still needs a free hand for material components(unless they take eschew materials as a feat).

I think the somatic component for spells and material components include grabbing and using it. IIRC if you have a way of bypassing that restriction such as Still Spell the component is still used it just never leaves the pouch. Do correct me if I'm wrong.


KaptainKrunch wrote:
Aazen wrote:
Be Selfish. Go Dervish.

Heh, but wouldn't going a Full BAB class be a more effective way of being selfish?

Or Magus for that matter :P

Not necessarily. Your self buff is going to get you to near the same numbers (without good hope or haste) while also giving you more generally useful spells, more skill points and other such perks. Also a dawnflower dervish gets that awesome quicken spell ability and still gets some of the other performances.

The regular dervish gets a self heal ability (combined with nice defensive bonuses) and the ability to move and full attack in the same round -- which is pretty hefty.


It's tough for the skald to fully play off intimidation because it requires a lot of feats to do right and the first feat you need is weapon focus which you can't even get until third level and all those nice intimidation feats chain off that. Add in your BAB requirement and you're looking at very late entry into Shatter Defenses, and Dazzling Display is kind of lost since you can simply make people shaken with dirge. Beside, there isn't much point in making your opponents flat footed unless you have a way to take advantage of it.

I think if a skald wants to play tight with a rogue who has shatter defenses it's amazing, a fighter/rogue even better.

I looked at this for S&S AP myself, but sadly if the campaign is just vessels full of rogues then the entire point may be lost (uncanny dodge).


I wouldn't bother with shatter defenses, but the party caster would be happy for the saving throw penalty shaken gives.

Sovereign Court

Doesn't Dazzling Display + Dirge= Frightened?


Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
Doesn't Dazzling Display + Dirge= Frightened?

Nope.

But it IS a performance so you can't do it and inspire courage at the same time. You can dazzling display while doing inspire courage however.


Trying not to flood the board with multiple topics about this, so I'm just going to ask in this thread...

What else could a controller focused bard do?

I'm really liking the idea of the Whip Bard, but in my theorizing, I'm running into exactly what Treantmonk Warned about: Spellcasting is one of the best things a Bard can do, but they simply don't have enough spells per day to keep it up.

At level 8 my Bard has three level 3 spells per day, which is enough to do the Good Hope + Haste ONCE per day. Mostly I'm looking for something effective to do while not casting and buffing.

Currently my stats are:
STR: 10
DEX: 14
CON: 16
WIS: 8
INT: 12
CHA: 22 (+2 racial and +2 level up)

Using the DM's stat allotment 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 which I can allocate one number into each stat.

The Feats I've given him are thus so far: Weapon Focus: Whip, Arcane Strike, Whip Mastery, Dazzling Display, Improved Whip Mastery.

Arcane Strike is a feat I'm not satisfied with, and I'm looking for something more effective to replace it with.

I originally had him as a Falchion Wielder and my stats looked like this:

STR: 22
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 12
CHA: 16

Though I liked the idea of being able to max Charisma and focus on that because it left the 16 stat for CON, though if I need to I can always go back to this allotment if it means I can be generally effective.

The most important buff is of course Inspire Courage, which currently he gets 24 rounds for with the 22 CHA. What are some things he can do while he's not casting with his standard actions?

Treantmonk recommends Wands and staves, so I'm looking into that right now.

With Dazzling Display, I could keep the enemy perpetually intimidated, however that's not necessary for EVERY round. Also, it's mind affecting so about 1/4 of encounters (if completely random) wouldn't be affected at all.

The Net idea is cool, but it requires I switch out my whip, which means I won't be 10' flanking that round.

I looked a little bit at Combat Maneuvers, but as mentioned before, Combat Maneuvers suck unless you're completely dedicated to them (Though with as versatile whips are, if I were a full BAB class willing to dedicate myself to them it wouldn't be a completely terrible option.)

Alchemy also comes to mind, but that gets pretty expensive and would require a skill investment for any decent payoff.

Is there anything else I'm not thinking of?


KaptainKrunch wrote:


At level 8 my Bard has three level 3 spells per day, which is enough to do the Good Hope + Haste ONCE per day. Mostly I'm looking for something effective to do while not casting and buffing.

Well Heroism is Good hope without the damage mod, single target, much longer duration. Drop it on the member or members who really need it the most (DW, medium BAB melee guys) and don't use good hope. Haste is so much better on a spell for spell basis.

Quote:

Currently my stats are:

STR: 10
DEX: 14
CON: 16
WIS: 8
INT: 12
CHA: 22 (+2 racial and +2 level up)

Using the DM's stat allotment 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 which I can allocate one number into each stat.

I dont think it's worth having more than a 16 starting cha, and 14 is fine. I like the idea of a whip but your CMD/CMB won't ever be great unless you're using a wand of true strike. The whip is great for an arcane duelist to be able to threaten further, it's great for getting off full attacks without having to move as far.

Quote:
The Feats I've given him are thus so far: Weapon Focus: Whip, Arcane Strike, Whip Mastery, Dazzling Display, Improved Whip Mastery.

No finesse? Don't even think about tripping with those feats and stats. If I had it to do all over again I'd go archer bard with 16/18/12/8/10/14 and put your +2 in either Dex or Charisma. If you want to melee put the high score in STR.

Arcane Strike is great if you can afford it. It's arguably better than power attack early on but later you need your swift action for other things. It's a toss up, I can always find something better to take.

Quote:

I originally had him as a Falchion Wielder and my stats looked like this:

STR: 22
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 12
CHA: 16

Though I liked the idea of being able to max Charisma and focus on that because it left the 16 stat for CON, though if I need to I can always go back to this allotment if it means I can be generally effective.

This would be okay, but really you don't need the 12 int at all, that should be a 10 in every build.

Quote:
The most important buff is of course Inspire Courage, which currently he gets 24 rounds for with the 22 CHA. What are some things he can do while he's not casting with his standard actions?

Attack. Melee or bow.


I acknowledge that Arcane strike uses up the swift action, but I still think it's worthwhile for a bard. At later levels you will indeed have other options for your swift action... but you aren't going to be using them constantly -- typically you only need to start a performance even now and then so on the rounds you aren't starting a performance you can use arcane strike. Quickened spells are nice, but the earliest you'll be able to do so on your own is 13th level (10th if you spend a trait) and with a metamagic rod you are still unlikely to do so more than 3 times a day... meaning you still have plenty of other rounds to use arcane strike with.

Arcane strike works with both melee and ranged weapons, so you don't have to take both power attack and deadly aim (if you were looking at covering both), and it works to the same benefit with all weapons equally, so you don't have to worry about the type of weapon your party finds (or gets passed down from the party fighter).

Just because there are a few rounds where you can't (or won't) use arcane strike seems a silly reason to pass it up to me -- there will be far more rounds where you won't be able to trip, power attack, or intimidate and yet people still take feats to enhance those abilities without questioning their worth not to mention metamagic feats like quicken spell. I would suggest using the same thought process to taking arcane strike.


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See, I don't mind giving up Versatile Performance so much. It's a nifty ability, sure, but it doesn't really work right unless you're starting at a level to take advantage of it. Before you get at least two instances of the ability, points in multiple Perform skills are redundant, so in an 'organic' build, it can take time for a new Versatile Performance to actually be useful. Once you've got a Versatile Performance, any skill points you put in the skills it covers are wasted, but you usually can't afford to not place points into the skill at all if you're actually playing the preceding levels.

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