Debt of the Kirin

[Xelnagahunter]

I am looking at the PSS: First Steps, part II "To Delve the Dungeon Deep." At the end of the scenario players can obtain a trade agreement item called the "Debt of the Kirin" and may choose to keep the boon, thus making it appear on their chronicle. What is the game play implication of this? Is it covered in the Part III and I have just not read it yet, or will it have a definite value as a usable piece of treasure for later adventures?

[Chris Mortika]

It doesn't appear in Part III.

It might have had some value in "Haunting of Hinojai," perhaps for the Silver Crusade's faction mission, but that turns out not to be so. It might have some purpose in an upcoming adventure.

[Xelnagahunter]

Ok, so from what you see it has no value as of right now and most players have a chance of forgetting it exists? Alright, I was just curious as to it's purpose should the PC's discover/keep the document.

["Kash"]

I found it during my play through it, but I wound up handing it over to Amara because I wanted to join the Lantern Lodge faction.

Didn't realize I was screwing myself out of something important.

[hogarth]

It's fairly common to have things in chronicles that are mostly useless but look like they could potentially useful in future scenarios. E.g. "with this map, you get +2 to Survival checks to track womp rats in the mountains of Shabooboo", but no scenarios actually take you to Shabooboo.

[BYC]

I wish I can remember all the various boons I've received over the course of my characters' careers. Other than the re-roll ones, I can't really recall most of them. Even the useful ones like you have Endure Elements up to 0 degrees F from Shades of Ice part 2 I think.

[nosig]

this is one of those boon that kind of bothers me.

You're in a group, and your at the end of the adventure, and you have something that you can give to AA, BB or CC (in this case CC is keep yourself). You come to the option to hand it over to AA and player XX says "I hand it over". Everyone else at the table then says "whaaa???" the Cronicals are marked and that's that. Your decision is made by the guy who speaks up first - or in fact by the first of the groups that asks, 'cause sometimes the party says "we don't tell him what we found", but one guy says "I hand it over to AA".

When I run this, I halt the game at this point and have each player write down what they want to do with the papers. Then (if I have time) I RP all three results, and mark each PCs Cronical according to what that PC wanted the results to be.

Now... am I wrong to do this?

[Chris Mortika]

I think so, nosig. This boon isn't like equipment found. The party either hands over the stuff, or they don't.

I make sure the party specifies who is carrying what loot, whenever they find stuff. If a player blurted out that he was handing over the papers, I'd check to see if he's offering something he's carrying, or attempting to call out something that someone else is carrying.

In either case, but especially the latter, I'd ask him if he doesn't think the party ought to make that decision as a group.

[nosig]

Chris Mortika wrote:

I think so, nosig. This boon isn't like equipment found. The party either hands over the stuff, or they don't.

I make sure the party specifies who is carrying what loot, whenever they find stuff. If a player blurted out that he was handing over the papers, I'd check to see if he's offering something he's carrying, or attempting to call out something that someone else is carrying.

In either case, but especially the latter, I'd ask him if he doesn't think the party ought to make that decision as a group.

I just recall the final years of LG where the mod writers would foster Player vs. Player conflict by requiring the PCs to agree on who gets X.

and make that decision at the end of the mod when everyone is tired and short tempered and short on time.

Why? it is not like the players are going to be continuing in the same group (yes, I realize that some will).

Your PC is stuck with the results of the actions of another PC enough, why would we require this now? Why NOT let the players individually decide? Let them discuss it if there is time. Let them each try to convense each other (in character) why it needs to be turned over to XX (or not), but just mark the Cronical the way each player wanted his done.

[Mark Moreland]

There is at least one scenario already in print that deals with the Way of the Kirin. They are likely to appear in later scenarios, and those PCs who have this boon will be able to use it. Since it's in a replayable intro scenario, it's possible for every PC to have this and ensure that you can use it when the time comes.

[Mark Moreland]

hogarth wrote:

It's fairly common to have things in chronicles that are mostly useless but look like they could potentially useful in future scenarios. E.g. "with this map, you get +2 to Survival checks to track womp rats in the mountains of Shabooboo", but no scenarios actually take you to Shabooboo.

By "fairly common" I suppose you're referring to a single scenario in season 0. Since then, the number of "useless" boons has been much lower, and some that folks thought were useless have later had unexpected uses seasons later. So while the specific boon you reference hasn't come into play in Pathfinder Society play yet, it's never too late to travel back to the so-called Mountains of Shabooboo.

[Chris Mortika]

Why require the party to agree? I admit, I'm baffled by the question. Because letting each individual PC decide whether to keep the papers doesn't make any logical sense, nosig. Why do it at the end of the scenario? Because, well, that's when those sorts of decisions get made.

At the end of

Shadow's Last Stand II: Web of Corruption:

, do you let each individual PC decide whether or not to kill The Spider?

At the end of

Shadows Fall on Absalom:

, do you let each individual PC decide whether they kill another Pathfinder?

Or whether they negotiate with the king of the Sewer Dragons? Or kill the Midnight Mauler?

In none of those cases does it make sense to let individuals decide what they're going to do, because it's a single decision. Yeah, if somebody jumps in and gives Amara Li the papers, other players don't get to NOT give them. Just like, if one player kills all the goblins in Frostfur Captives, the other players don't get to bring them home safe. But that's part of playing the game.

As an aside: If your parties are usually short-tempered at the end of scenarios, then I suggest they need to figure out how to have fun in this hobby.

[Ross Byers]

I added some spoiler tags.

[hogarth]

Mark Moreland wrote:

hogarth wrote:

It's fairly common to have things in chronicles that are mostly useless but look like they could potentially useful in future scenarios. E.g. "with this map, you get +2 to Survival checks to track womp rats in the mountains of Shabooboo", but no scenarios actually take you to Shabooboo.

By "fairly common" I suppose you're referring to a single scenario in season 0. Since then, the number of "useless" boons has been much lower, and some that folks thought were useless have later had unexpected uses seasons later. So while the specific boon you reference hasn't come into play in Pathfinder Society play yet, it's never too late to travel back to the so-called Mountains of Shabooboo.

I've mostly only played Season 0 and 1 scenarios, so there were a number of things that seemed to be not used yet. If they've been used in later seasons, that's great! But at the time, there were several things that were clearly in "To Be Announced" territory.

[KestlerGunner]

I, for one, am extremely curious about the Mountains of Shabooboo and what the Kirin were trying to accomplish there in the first place.

Dreng, set your alarm clock for midnight. We have a new pointless errand to send Pathfinders on!

*rubs hands together gleefully*

[xebeche]

If you have this boon you can play "#4–21: Way of the Kirin" to utilize it.

[BigNorseWolf]

Dammit...

Spoiler:

I was hoping Amara Li might have a rude surprise for someone that kept this for themselves

[Matthew Morris]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Dammit...** spoiler omitted **

So was I, since turning it over was the 'right' thing to do.

[Paz]

I just want to check the legality of something, as I'm thinking of GMing 'To Delve the Dungeon Deep' followed by 'Way of the Kirin' before the August cut-off. Bear in mind that I don't own WotK yet; I'm just going by what's been said by Mike/Mark/John on the boards and some basic assumptions.

- Group plays TDtDD with 1st-level (0-2 XP) PCs, presumably in Lantern Lodge, gaining 'Debt of the Kirin' boon. GM assigns credit to new PC, also gaining boon on chronicle.

- Group plays WotK with 4th-level pregens, and assigns the credit to their now 1st or 2nd level Lantern Lodge PCs (utilising the boon from TDtDD in some way, if applicable). GM assigns credit to same PC as above.

- Group's PCs reach 4th level (at some point, possibly after August 2013) and apply the chronicle, getting the full Lantern Lodge benefits on their PCs. GM does same when PC reaches 3rd level.

[KestlerGunner]

Paz, there is no time limit on the "Debt of the Kirin" payoff in WotK. You don't need to hurry your players to play pregens.
However, if they are Lantern Lodge, then yeah, there's a time limit for a WotK boon.

[treidenb]

I have a character with the Debt of the Kirin who is too low to play WotK yet. If I GM and apply credit to that character, will the debt be usable, or should wait to play it with that character?

Both characters I plan to play and GM are Lantern Lodge, but one is in the tier range now when I have a chance to play it. The other character with the debt is not there yet.

[KestlerGunner]

IRON: You should play it with you character in tier and then GM it to apply the GM credit to your lower level LL character. You need to do both of these sessions before August 14 :)

[treidenb]

KestlerGunner wrote:

IRON: You should play it with you character in tier and then GM it to apply the GM credit to your lower level LL character. You need to do both of these sessions before August 14 :)

I know about the LL restrictions and I'll be both playing/GMing before Gen Con. I'm more interested in whether or not the Debt of the Kirin affects the scenario and I should therefore make an attempt to play it with the character that has it. I don't want to play the scenario without it and then GM it later if it is just wasted.

[KestlerGunner]

The Debt of the Kirin does affect the scenario. You will be able to call in the Debt if you play it or GM it. It isn't wasted and it isn't subject to the time limit.

[treidenb]

Perfect. Thanks!

[Mergy]

It's actually subject to a similar time limit. First Steps II is being retired in August, and so PCs after that point won't be able to apply that boon to this scenario.

Actually, the Way of the Kirin chronicle sheet is going to be awfully disappointing come August.

[KestlerGunner]

Yeah.
Earning the debt in FS2 - must happen before August 14.
Calling in the debt in WotK - can happen anytime.

I like the last remaining boon because it suggests more Tian Xia adventures may be on the cards :)

[Grolloc]

hogarth wrote:

It's fairly common to have things in chronicles that are mostly useless but look like they could potentially useful in future scenarios. E.g. "with this map, you get +2 to Survival checks to track womp rats in the mountains of Shabooboo", but no scenarios actually take you to Shabooboo.

"The Cup of Mount Shabooboo" is my mythical scenario recap when explaining the society to newbies. Agents are tasked with retrieving the legendary Cup of Doom from its resting place at the summit of the mountain. There is an ex-sczarni hermit who collects rare Taldan tea sets living on the trail up the mountain for faction missions. This scenario has quite a high kill-rate, illustrating the Decimverate's apathy towards the fate of field agents.