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The LGBT Gamer Community Thread.


Gamer Talk

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I thought it would be cool to create a thread where members of the LGBT community who are also gamers could come and share their life stories, experiences as gamers, and struggles (whether in dealing with their sexuality in relation to our society or not).

About Me:

I am a Bi-Sexual man in my twenties who has, quite honestly, lived a charmed life compared to the average member of our community. When I came out in my teens I was accepted by both my strongly Christian family and my somewhat ignorant but good natured community.

I have never suffered from physical abuse or been assaulted, although I have faced plenty of prejudice and harsh opinions.

The most significantly defining moment of my life actually has nothing to do with realizing my own sexuality or dealing with it but is the innocuous event that first set me down the road of realizing the effect I was having on the people around me and believing I had a responsibility to do my best for them

The event in question was when I overheard a conversation between my girlfriend and one of my best friends when they didn’t realize I could hear them.

She was saying that while she loved me and loved that I was a strong person capable of great kindness and generosity sometimes I committed acts so mean that even she, not a girl known to spare a kind word if doing so would decrease her popularity at all, was taken aback. She said she would just laugh along with the group but that she honestly wondered about me and whether I was just working out some childhood trauma or something.

To which my friend replied: “Nope, that’s not what is happening at all, don’t you get it? Don’t you see? He is the eight hundred pound silverback in a jungle full of tiny monkeys. He just does whatever he wants to whoever he wants because who is going to stop him? If there is a bigger dick in this entire world I’ve never met him, let’s just be happy we are his friends, right?”

At which point they shared a laugh.

OUCH, MY FEELINGS.

Many people have mocked me throughout my life, some quite viciously, but it has very rarely hurt me. This did. It split my heart in half like a guillotine through a watermelon. The honest assessment of my friend was said in a tone of gentle teasing but the truth of it cut deep and made me realize something: Even those closest to me were, on some level, AFRAID OF ME AND APPALLED BY MY BEHAVIOR.

Suddenly a lifetime of “pranks” and bullying suddenly seemed a lot less satisfying and I, ridiculously enough considering I was in no way being actively ostracized, felt like an outsider. I learned an important truth that day that has seemed to hold true throughout much of human history: That it is only funny until it happens to you.

My life since that day has been a study of the intricate social interplays that happen between people and a self journey to discover my place in this world and what, if anything, I can do to make it better.

A lot of people have pointed out that this is a weirdly mundane event to have caused a person to do a 180 but to that I reply that I am simply not a person who ever makes the same mistake twice if I can help it. If I am being stupid the most helpful thing you can do is tell me about it and offer me a compelling reason why. I’m one of those rare people who will not only listen but adjust my thinking and behavior in response.

My last failed homosexual relationship and what I learned from it.:

So my last boyfriend, whom I loved dearly, lived his life in a way that I can only describe as “being half-way out of the closest.”

His current friends and coworkers knew his orientation but his family and the people he grew up with did not(supposedly, after interacting with them for a while I began to suspect it was widely known, just not talked about)

It didn’t seem to be that big a deal when we first started dating but as time went on it actually begun to become a serious problem.

Before we would visit his family he would get nervous, as he often did, biting his nails and becoming hyper critical of me and the fact that I might expose who he was to his family.

“You’re dressed too gay…” He told me once before going to hang out with them.

“Huh?” I responded. I was wearing jeans, a t-shirt and sneakers. “What are you talking about?”

“You’re shirt is too tight.” He responded. “Can you change it before we leave?” He asked.

Ok, I did not that big a deal.

As time went on it got worse instead of better though. The most ridiculous fight we had happened like this:

Same scenario, we were going to hang out with his parents. He starts biting his nails.

“Ok what am I doing wrong?” I ask.

“You smell too nice.” He responds.

I give him the blankest stare I’ve ever given anyone in my entire life.

“Straight guys, they’re dirty, you know? You smell too nice.” He continues.

“Actually that is not really true, girls have a lot higher standards now then they did once. Lots of straight guys are clean and good smelling now.” I reply informatively.

“Mmmmm, no, I want you to do something about the way you smell before we leave, do something to smell dirty please.” He asked.

“Are you being serious right now?” I ask.

“Yes.” He replies.

So I took the kitchen waste basket and up ended it over my head and then, covered in coffee grounds and banana peels, shouted:

“THERE!!!! DO I SMELL ‘STRAIGHT’ ENOUGH TO YOU NOW????”

In the end what I realized after many long discussions with him that what the problem really was was not that his family thought there was something wrong with being gay but that he himself, on some level, thought there was something wrong with it.

You cannot have a healthy relationship with someone who hates themselves. It is just impossible.

That was not what made me leave him in the end though, that occurred when one day he was doing his being critical thing and not even concealing it in a polite tone anymore and I was trying to be reasonable but after one particularly nasty comment had to physically remove myself from the situation when I found myself raising my hand with the desire to smack him across the mouth, which, considering the difference in size and strength between us, would prolly have broken his jaw.

If things get to the point where domestic abuse becomes a possibility you need to leave.

He had a really hard time with the break up but I needed to do it and we are on good terms now but I will never put myself into a situation like that again.

If you can’t love yourself or at least be ok with the person you are it doesn’t matter if someone else loves you, you will never be happy or have a happy relationship.

Fun with Gaming:

I was only recently introduced to PnP games but I have to say I am really enjoying them a lot. Maybe it’s just the enthusiasm of being a new gamer but right now I feel like I wouldn’t mind wasting my entire life playing Pathfinder until the end of time.

I’m in seven different games right now and will soon likely DM for the first time and am excited about it.

Gamers are not people I have traditionally hung out with but I really like them. They are intelligent and imaginative, two qualities I really appreciate and wish I had more of in my life.

They sometimes have their own social issues but it often seems to be approached in a funny way.

In one of the groups I’m in there are these two really smart guys that have been friends since kids that constantly fight and argue. It is really funny. They are usually pretty good about not derailing the game but sometimes they get stuck on a point and the whole thing breaks down.

After it happened at one point one of the girls in the group approached me and said: “I’m not trying to be weird but when they argue doesn’t it seem strangely like a lovers quarrel?”

To which I replied: “I wasn’t going to say anything but there does seem to be some sexual tension there, no joke.”

We giggled.

Last week as they were fighting for some reason they actually turned to me and asked how I think they should resolve their conflicts, to which I replied:

“Me? I think you guys should simply square root of four thousand seven hundred and sixty one and get it over with. See? Judging from the looks on your faces you understood that joke, you’re smart guys, you can figure out something.”

I really like gamers, high intelligence and explosive tempers all, I look forward to having a lot of fun with you guys in the future.


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I am a polymorphously perverse, omnisexual goblin who'll do just about anything for a kick--as long as its consensual!

People don't invite me over often, because I tend to leave puddles of effluvia wherever I go.

Goblins do it in the street!

Taldor Contributor

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Cool idea!


Wow, what a nice idea.


This is a nice idea. I'll do an about me soon.

Paizo Employee Webstore Gninja Minion

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Moved thread to Gamer Talk.
Just a heads up to keep it civil and PG-13. :)


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PG 13? That is a disappointment. I was hoping to tell everyone about how my $%#@% and my %&^*( with a !@##$% and she has an tennis racket and is like $%^&* ^%$%^&& $%^&&** the Great Pyramids of Egypt and $%^&* &*^%$$ &&*#% then Mister Ed is like “I’m confused what is happening here…” and I’m like %^&* ^^&&*^ &&**(() and my boyfriend is like “Where did that Ipod even come from then?” and I reply $%^&* $%^&* ^%$##^ rocket ship made entirely out of cheese.

But you’re right that probably is just entirely too graphic so I promise I will not bring up the details of my love life here.


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But...but...the rocketship was made out of cheese...Delicious cheese...


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Freehold DM wrote:
But...but...the rocketship was made out of cheese...Delicious cheese...

Mmmm I know, it's tasty. It's space flight capability is somewhat questionable though, Bree doesn't hold up well in a hostile vacuum, but that is just something gay couples have to deal with.


20 people marked this as a favorite.

I long for the day when sexuality becomes a non-subject.


Shifty wrote:

I long for the day when sexuality becomes a non-subject.

Shifty, must we be on opposite sides of every issue?!??!

Cheliax

Interesting forum post. Has anyone ever dealt with outright blatant homophobia or, more commonly, what I call "locker room" humor in their games, either from the GM, players, or both?

Example from a real game: "Your PC enter the prison section --"

"Oh, fu#@! Don't drop the soap!"
"Haha! Yeah, your elf better watch it in there, Brian. Or he's gonna get the shaft!"
"Yeah, Brian. And none of that mamsy-pansy safe shooting cr&% your character does all the time. These guys mean serious business, what with no women for so many years."
"Still can't tell if elves are male or female. Or how they like to get it."
"Hey, at least they're gettin' some, Mr. 40 year old virgin, either with pu#^# or fu$#@$ by a f**$^&!"
"Ass#%$%! At least when I'm fu$#*^$, I know it's a lady, not like that b8$#@ you call your [girlfriend/wife/roommate with benefit]!"
"Fu#$ you, f!+$#^!"

Etc. NOTE: Cleaned up the language a bit. I left the group shortly.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
Shifty, must we be on opposite sides of every issue?!??!

Because you choose to be arbitrarily contrary?

It's true, I look forward to the day when the subject becomes a non-subject in the way we don't feel the need to converse about whether the sky is blue, and indeed it becomes a general day to day non-issue where the notion of where one puts ones private parts and with whom raises no eyebrows nor interest, and indeed no one really cares apart from those who might be interested in joining in.

I'm hoping for Sexuality threads to make about as much sense as a blue eyed thread, or 'people who drink water' thread.

Now if you are saying that you would like it to remain always a conversation piece where people feel the need to 'identify' (or worse, feel compelled to conceal) their sexuality, then I would suggest you are advocating that you are maintaining the status quo.

I'd personally like an end to the stupid 'politics' around the issue - you are suggesting you would like to maintain them.

In that case I welcome you to the opposition.

Won't be long now until the final hurdle of gay marriage gets crossed, and then thats pretty much the end of the battle won in this country.


joela wrote:

Interesting forum post. Has anyone ever dealt with outright blatant homophobia or, more commonly, what I call "locker room" humor in their games, either from the GM, players, or both?

Example from a real game: "Your PC enter the prison section --"

"Oh, fu#@! Don't drop the soap!"
"Haha! Yeah, your elf better watch it in there, Brian. Or he's gonna get the shaft!"

Is it really blatant homophobia? I sometimes wonder if they are actually using it as an excuse to verbalise a few pent up curiosities. That sort of talk is normally $4.99/minute on specialty chat lines...but hey its umm totally straight if they are 'just joking' right?

Osirion

Shifty wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Shifty, must we be on opposite sides of every issue?!??!

Because you choose to be arbitrarily contrary?

It's true, I look forward to the day when the subject becomes a non-subject in the way we don't feel the need to converse about whether the sky is blue, and indeed it becomes a general day to day non-issue where the notion of where one puts ones private parts and with whom raises no eyebrows nor interest, and indeed no one really cares apart from those who might be interested in joining in.

I'm hoping for Sexuality threads to make about as much sense as a blue eyed thread, or 'people who drink water' thread.

Now if you are saying that you would like it to remain always a conversation piece where people feel the need to 'identify' (or worse, feel compelled to conceal) their sexuality, then I would suggest you are advocating that you are maintaining the status quo.

I'd personally like an end to the stupid 'politics' around the issue - you are suggesting you would like to maintain them.

In that case I welcome you to the opposition.

Won't be long now until the final hurdle of gay marriage gets crossed, and then thats pretty much the end of the battle won in this country.

Well good news: it'll be a non-subject once society at large has changed it's attitude. Until then, you'll just have to put with occasional public displays of LGBT people reaching out to each other in a sometimes very hostile world.

Oh, before I forget, your line about "private parts" wreaks of misunderstanding: by fixating upon physical intimacy you totally ignored the most important factor about same-sex relations, you ignored love.


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Winterthorn wrote:


Well good news: it'll be a non-subject once society at large has changed it's attitude. Until then, you'll just have to put with occasional public displays of LGBT people reaching out to each other.

Oh by all means reach out and share that sweet-sweet nectar. All I rue is the fact that quite often these shows need to be done as a show of protest.

I guess I am lucky that here in Australia it is a dying issue; we are just about to the point of legalising Gay marriage and then the politics is pretty much over. We will still probably have the Mardi Gras though, but even that started out as a protest and is now so mainstream its more just a carniva.

Winterthorn wrote:
Oh, before I forget, your line about "private parts" wreaks of misunderstanding: by fixating upon physical intimacy you totally ignored the most important factor about same-sex relations, you had ignored love.

Well Love can come into it, sure, but thats not usually the part that is freaking people out - no one goes 'zomg those two men love each other', the hung up people tend to focus on 'zomg they are doing x with each others rude bits'.

So nah I hadn't ignored it, it's just that the L word is not usually part of the broader conversation - actual discussions about love are seemingly rare, although that seems to be the cornerstone of the marriage debate (which did I mention is almost over here?)

Anyhow, I have met a lot of GLB gamers, but not yet a T. That said, I have never seen it be an issue at the table - roleplayers tend to be a pretty open minded community.


Alright, slow your roll people. I want this thread to be an oasis of calm where members of the LGBT community can share their stories in a peaceful atmosphere and perhaps make a silly joke or two. Anyone who wants to can comment but I'd prefer if you would make a conscious decision to promote tranquility in writing your posts. Arguments can and should be had about many subjects but here let's all be relaxed and laid back in this particular thread.

Osirion

Dogbladewarrior wrote:
Alright, slow your roll people. I want this thread to be an oasis of calm where members of the LGBT community can share their stories in a peaceful atmosphere and perhaps make a silly joke or two. Anyone who wants to can comment but I'd prefer if you would make a conscious decision to promote tranquility in writing your posts. Arguments can and should be had about many subjects but here let's all be relaxed and laid back in this particular thread.

Sorry. I've seen so much hostility online and in the media, I get touchy.


Shifty wrote:
Anyhow, I have met a lot of GLB gamers, but not yet a T.

It sucks being a rarity.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Shifty wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Shifty, must we be on opposite sides of every issue?!??!

Because you choose to be arbitrarily contrary?

It's true, I look forward to the day when the subject becomes a non-subject in the way we don't feel the need to converse about whether the sky is blue, and indeed it becomes a general day to day non-issue where the notion of where one puts ones private parts and with whom raises no eyebrows nor interest, and indeed no one really cares apart from those who might be interested in joining in.

I'm hoping for Sexuality threads to make about as much sense as a blue eyed thread, or 'people who drink water' thread.

Now if you are saying that you would like it to remain always a conversation piece where people feel the need to 'identify' (or worse, feel compelled to conceal) their sexuality, then I would suggest you are advocating that you are maintaining the status quo.

I'd personally like an end to the stupid 'politics' around the issue - you are suggesting you would like to maintain them.

In that case I welcome you to the opposition.

Won't be long now until the final hurdle of gay marriage gets crossed, and then thats pretty much the end of the battle won in this country.

The fact of the matter is that, as things are, it IS an issue, and there is controversy around it. It may be unfortunate, but it will take time to change. Until then,many of us in the community appreciate our own places to discuss the issues we have to deal with. Could you please respect this fact, and allow us to have this thread without having to justify it's existance to you?

Osirion

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Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Shifty wrote:
Anyhow, I have met a lot of GLB gamers, but not yet a T.
It sucks being a rarity.

Hmm. Well, one could turn that sad sense of rarity around, and consider oneself a bright gem!

Just thinkin' the positive :-D


joela wrote:

Interesting forum post. Has anyone ever dealt with outright blatant homophobia or, more commonly, what I call "locker room" humor in their games, either from the GM, players, or both?

Most groups i have joined are in this club to varying degrees. so i either tell em' i cant handle it and leave or just leave w/o saying a word. i mean i hear that garbage out in the world but wont listen to it with my free time. if it means i cant play then thats just what it means.

i have an awesome group in Tucson and will be moving to Pittsburg soon
with a couple people from the group. if there are folks who need a gaming group that is safe and serious about games in that area...
let me know


Winterthorn wrote:


Sorry. I've seen so much hostility online and in the media, I get touchy.

No problem.


Shifty wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Shifty, must we be on opposite sides of every issue?!??!

Because you choose to be arbitrarily contrary?

It's true, I look forward to the day when the subject becomes a non-subject in the way we don't feel the need to converse about whether the sky is blue, and indeed it becomes a general day to day non-issue where the notion of where one puts ones private parts and with whom raises no eyebrows nor interest, and indeed no one really cares apart from those who might be interested in joining in.

I'm hoping for Sexuality threads to make about as much sense as a blue eyed thread, or 'people who drink water' thread.

Now if you are saying that you would like it to remain always a conversation piece where people feel the need to 'identify' (or worse, feel compelled to conceal) their sexuality, then I would suggest you are advocating that you are maintaining the status quo.

I'd personally like an end to the stupid 'politics' around the issue - you are suggesting you would like to maintain them.

In that case I welcome you to the opposition.

Won't be long now until the final hurdle of gay marriage gets crossed, and then thats pretty much the end of the battle won in this country.

I agree with the lion's share of what you said. I was more pointing out that you and I seem to differ on opinions more often than not than being blatantly contrary to you. I greatly enjoy discussing issues of sex and sexuality without being accusatory or mean, and if you meant that sex should never come up in conversation ever again, then I would quite naturally oppose that. If you meant that noone should really care who does what with whom beyond a polite and courteous refusal if one is not into that, then of course I'm with you.


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Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Shifty wrote:
Anyhow, I have met a lot of GLB gamers, but not yet a T.
It sucks being a rarity.

But I love Rarity! She's my #3 pony!!!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Shifty wrote:
Anyhow, I have met a lot of GLB gamers, but not yet a T.
It sucks being a rarity.

I've met a bunch of T women (no T men, as far as I know anyway), but I don't think any of them have been gamers (at least in the PnP way - video games are another matter).

So, as Winterthorn said, revel in the uniqueness instead. :-D

Osirion

With respect to OP: this is an interesting topic for me. Here I am, it's 11:00 p.m. up in Ottawa, I'm sittin' at home reading stuff online... and thinking now.

For years I've being stuck in a tug of war between gaming, and gay life. In my experience I cannot get any overlap in a social comfort zone. (I'm tired and the eloquence ain't there tonight!) I've had affairs and boyfriends in one world and gamer friends in another -- with tension between the two pulling me in opposite directions. Especially my time. I'm out to most co-workers, and to my folks, but not to everyone: my gaming friends and acquaintances, some of whom I've a 20+ year history socializing with, have no clue because I've never found gamers where I live that I felt comfortable being myself, and I haven't met one LGBT gamer in person either.

Online? Yeah. In person? Never.

Correction, in socializing at a LGBT function about a year ago, I met a guy who was a WoW fan. I don't play online rpgs, but I've heard there are some LGBT groups out there. He's the first "gaymer" I met in person after all these years. Part of the problem is, my sharpest observations limited to gay men, very few gay men acknowledge interest in things beyond the stereotypes of cruising, partying, and going to the gym, pursuing careers, and spending money on fashion, etc.

Until they hit 40. (Yeah, there's something wry in that.) Then they like antiques!

Okay, so finding LGBT friends locally, particularly gay men, to socialize with in a gaming context has been really difficult. Well, that's what Fate's thrown at me.

The other side, my gaming friends, they're straight -- or play str8 because they're so deep in the closet they may be stuck in there all their lives -- everyone has to forge their way free on their own terms -- and some of these gamer friends are either colossal homophobes, or just clueless. They're great gamers, but I'm the one who has to cringe in silence when table talk strays to things, um, heterosexual.

So I feel like I have to choose between two worlds.

(Gawd, does anything I say tonight make sense?)

Added wrinkle: I was into gaming as a young adult as a way to distract myself from the tensions of being in my own closet. It was one outlet to keep my mind off of reality. So when I came out at 29/30, I was already an established gamer. But I carefully kept a wall up between the old me and the new me, 'cause in the late 1980's early 1990's, things were more difficult for us than they are today.

Um, that's what I can share for the moment about being gay and being a gamer.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Winterthorn wrote:

The other side, my gaming friends, they're straight -- or play str8 because they're so deep in the closet they may be stuck in there all their lives -- everyone has to forge their way free on their own terms -- and some of these gamer friends are either colossal homophobes, or just clueless. They're great gamers, but I'm the one who has to cringe in silence when table talk strays to things, um, heterosexual.

So I feel like I have to choose between two worlds

Could it be that they're homophobic because they've never interacted with (out) gay people?

Maybe you could be the "poster child" that cures them of their homophobia? It's well known that people fear what they don't know, but they know you, so it might turn the ideas they have about gay people upside down if you told them.
I do have to say that I'm not gay, so I can't put myself 100% into your situation (and I, of course, don't know the people you game with) - I do have other things that I don't disclose at first to everyone, primarily because of social issues/taboos/perceptions, so I'm not totally unfamiliar with the situation either - so take that into consideration. But it's a suggestion. :-)


Winterthorn, I can assure you, there is a wide and wonderful gay world out there filled with men with all sorts of interests, including gaming.

How can you meet them though, that is the question and one I cannot honestly answer. In my own life the men I’ve had relationships with have not been flamboyant club bound partiers but friends of friends disconnected from the scenes where we normally congregate. It helps that I am both clear about who I am with everyone I meet and that I make it obvious you can approach me if you like me. The being entirely out of the closet isn’t actually the greatest idea for many men though(at least in relation to groups where it doesn’t really matter a lot for them to know) and if you don’t trust the gamer group to handle it well don’t do it.

Osirion

GentleGiant wrote:
Winterthorn wrote:

The other side, my gaming friends, they're straight -- or play str8 because they're so deep in the closet they may be stuck in there all their lives -- everyone has to forge their way free on their own terms -- and some of these gamer friends are either colossal homophobes, or just clueless. They're great gamers, but I'm the one who has to cringe in silence when table talk strays to things, um, heterosexual.

So I feel like I have to choose between two worlds

Could it be that they're homophobic because they've never interacted with (out) gay people?

Maybe you could be the "poster child" that cures them of their homophobia? It's well known that people fear what they don't know, but they know you, so it might turn the ideas they have about gay people upside down if you told them.
I do have to say that I'm not gay, so I can't put myself 100% into your situation (and I, of course, don't know the people you game with) - I do have other things that I don't disclose at first to everyone, primarily because of social issues/taboos/perceptions, so I'm not totally unfamiliar with the situation either - so take that into consideration. But it's a suggestion. :-)

Poster child? Oh-oh! At 49? LOL :-)

You know what's ironic? I had the courage to participate in pride parades in the 1990's, and even be "out there" at these events with my LGBT peers, directing traffic, welcoming bystanders to our outdoor stage shows, interacting with police (who were actually friendly to us) and collecting tickets to events. But confronting old friends? That's tough because I don't want to 'cause a scene at the table. Maybe that's silly, but alas, all too human?

With newer gaming friends, I think can still open up things since the social investment is new and I don't know them well enough to know if they've have LGBT relatives, or friends, or co-workers they are comfortable with. So I've considered that as a plan to establish a comfortable group.

The other side needs work too, methinks. Finding local "gaymers" into rpgs still looks like a major challenge...

Osirion

Dogbladewarrior wrote:

Winterthorn, I can assure you, there is a wide and wonderful gay world out there filled with men with all sorts of interests, including gaming.

How can you meet them though, that is the question and one I cannot honestly answer. In my own life the men I’ve had relationships with have not been flamboyant club bound partiers but friends of friends disconnected from the scenes where we normally congregate. It helps that I am both clear about who I am with everyone I meet and that I make it obvious you can approach me if you like me. The being entirely out of the closet isn’t actually the greatest idea for many men though(at least in relation to groups where it doesn’t really matter a lot for them to know) and if you don’t trust the gamer group to handle it well don’t do it.

I can believe it -- about guys beyond the stereotypes. But oh my it *is* hard to connect locally for gaming. And you're right: there plenty of social situations it does matter, or require being "out", and then you're left with using gaydar. LOL. Oh man, my gaydar sucks -- if gaydar is the shiny new iPad(TM), mine's an Etch-a-sketch(TM)!!


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I've observed that it is often easier to tell a stranger the truth about yourself because the emotional investment you have in them is smaller. If a stranger tells you to go $%^& yourself no real loss, %^&* you too buddy, but if a friend of twenty years rejects you it has a far greater weight than a stranger because they know you well and you feel like they are truly rejecting YOU. Then again if they don't love you for who you actually are an argument can be made that they were never worth your time in the first place.

Osirion

Dogbladewarrior wrote:
I've observed that it is often easier to tell a stranger the truth about yourself because the emotional investment you have in them is smaller. If a stranger tells you to go $%^& yourself no real loss, %^&* you too buddy, but if a friend of twenty years rejects you it has a far greater weight than a stranger because they know you well and you feel like they are truly rejecting YOU. Then again if they don't love you for who you actually are an argument can be made that they were never worth your time in the first place.

Yeah, true. I hear ya.


Winterthorn wrote:


I can believe it -- about guys beyond the stereotypes. But oh my it *is* hard to connect locally for gaming. And you're right: there plenty of social situations it does matter, or require being "out", and then you're left with using gaydar. LOL. Oh man, my gaydar sucks -- if gaydar is the shiny new iPad(TM), mine's an Etch-a-sketch(TM)!!

Hehe, I honestly don't have any gaydar at all, although I do pick up on interactions between people pretty well. In the end I just try to get to know everyone I meet and have a chance of spending a reasonably large amount of time with and let the men come to me.


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I've been extraordinarily lucky in my gaming groups; had two of my bfs (at different times) join me with my longest-running group. And one group was 4 gay guys and a token str8 boi!

But even back in high school, shortly after I came out, my gaming buddies didn't care: one of them got more hazing than I did on account of his elven druid/ranger (1E). "Dirt-munchin', rope-smokin', tree-huggin' hippie f$+~!* elven druid." Which made me snort Mountain Dew out my nose laughing the first time I heard it...

While there have been exceptions, my general experience with the rpg crowd has been one of divine dispassion on the subject of sexuality. Most gamers just don't CARE -- which has been GREAT. My GMs know to throw cute, helpless BOY peasants at my characters to hook me into the plot, my fellow players buy me evenings with male courtesans when they're trying to sway me to one side or the other of a party argument... but it's never been a problem the way it has in real life.

I think the fact that we're all getting together to play 'let's pretend' has kept any discomfort about my sexuality easily stuffed aside: like it's just a character thing, y'know?

Anyway, I think this thread was a great idea; kudos, OP!


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Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Could you please respect this fact, and allow us to have this thread without having to justify it's existance to you?

Why certainly, and I haven't asked for anyone to justify anything in any way shape or form, all I expressed was:

"I long for the day when sexuality becomes a non-subject".

I'm not sure what it was in that short sentence that people have gotten all narky about it, but I think it's a pretty good goal to aim for - that a bunch of people can sit at a table and the sexuality and sexual preferences of those people matter about as much as if they prefer Coke or Pepsi (or both, or even Mountain Dew for the truly adventurous).

You know, I actually hope for a brighter future and stuff where tolerance and acceptance means that the issue becomes a non-issue. Not sure how that could ever be a bad thing.

I am also convinced that we are getting there, things have changed pretty significantly since the early 80's, if you can remember back that far.


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Y'know, I guess it's however you want to be identified. While I'm a straight gamer, I certainly don't want that to be what defines me. I am more than my sexuality and hobbies.


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loaba, they may just be pieces, but each piece is an important part of the whole. I am bisexual. I am a gamer. I am also a woman, a mother, a student, an artist, etc. All of those pieces make up the total of who I am. To deny any one of those parts of myself diminishes me, denying an important part of who I am. Sure, no one descriptor completely defines a person. But all of them matter and people often make connections and seek to find common ground with those who share certain things with them. Like this messageboard where gamers can connect with other gamers with whom they have an interest in common. :)


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I'm straight too. To deny my love for boobs would make me slightly hypocritical, not to mention miserable.


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You are (probably) many different things to many different people. Why pick just one aspect of yourself as your single, dominating, identifier?

One of my cousins is homosexual. Is he my "gay cousin", or is he just one of my "many cousins"? Does he introduce himself as "loaba's gay cousin"? No, he says "hello, my name is ..." He's more than my gay cousin. He's built a great life for himself, has a loving partner and a home, a great job. Dude has it together and to me, that's what really defines him.


Shifty wrote:
Anyhow, I have met a lot of GLB gamers, but not yet a T.

And it just now occurs to me that I have in fact gamed with a pre-op transexual DM . Nice guy, err gal. :) She'd laugh at that little joke.

Was a fun game, sadly we've lost touch over the years.


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Well, it would seem pretty silly introducing your cousin as your gay cousin. But you'd still introduce him as "This is my cousin ...". Cousin is an identifier. It isn't all he is by any means, but it establishes what his relation to you is.
Identifiers are often a useful social tool for establishing commonalities so that relationships can be built. I'm not really seeing at all how that translates to picking a single aspect of yourself and ignoring all others. Since print isn't good at communicating things like facial expression and tone, I'm going to take a second to say, I'm not being snotty here. I am honestly confused. I think we mean very different things by the word identifier to begin with.


I'm saying there has got to be more to you than your sexual preference(s).


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Okay. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. That doesn't mean that sexual preference isn't an aspect of your life either. And like anything else it can be a point of commonality that people can discuss in order to build relationships. It's not wrong to discuss it, nor does discussing it mean that it's the only thing that there is to you. Just like discussing how you really enjoy playing Pathfinder doesn't mean that Gamer is all that there is to you.


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I am bisexual. I am a gamer. I am a Quaker. I am a musician, sort of. I am a goofball. I am a secretary. I am an aspiring writer. I am a freelance editor.

All of these things are part of my identity, they are parts of a whole. I hope someday I can discus all the parts of my identity without someone ever telling me, "I hope you don't feel the need to discuss something that's part of yourself."

Neither of course, should I necessarily tattoo any or all of those identifiers on my face and run across the street naked shouting WOOOOOOO THIS IS WHO I AM AND YOU HAVE TO LIKE IT!!!

But it makes sense to start a thread about something that is part of your identity, that you want to discuss with other people. We are all at these forums because we all (I assume, anyway) identify as gamers, for example. There was a thread started by people who liked Joss Whedon, and one about people who like certain kinds of music, and plenty of threads for fans of different kinds of media or technology or what have you--those are all identifiers too. Off topic has some discussions about politics and religion, which are generally traditionally the polite conversation no-nos, but people can still talk about how they identify with relation to those subjects. I don't think any of those threads were out of place.

Sexuality is a very core, and major, part of every human being's identity, and if we can talk about much less core aspects identity such as gamer or Joss Whedon fan, or more deep aspects of identity like our political or philosophical alignments, we should be able to talk about our sexuality (including our gender identities and preferences for the sex/gender of our intimate partners) without shame or feeling out of place or like we are "digging up" subject matter that is uncomfortable. Rather than never having sexuality threads because having a sexuality is like drinking water (both inherently human but the former far more complex and an interesting subject of conversation), we should be able to have them ad infinitum without anyone feeling like it's uncomfortable or out of place.


@ dogbladewarrior

Good luck with that thread (and I say that sincerely, not sarcastically), I'm curious to see if it will lead to anything but arguments that have nothing to do with the OP (even if this kind of discussion isn't necessarily pointless in the end). Posts like mine basically...

I for myself am not quite sure how to react to this thread, and whether or not as a strait individual I should participate or if I would be welcomed as a participant. I would have the same kind of conundrum if this was a thread about a creating a female community, a Black community, a Muslim community or as Shifty puts it, a community for those with blue eyes.

I'm posting this because I never felt excluded from any threads on these boards before, if only to defend a position/opinion/experience that differs from that of the OP. For me, this differs from threads about those who like Josh Whedon as it doesn't relate to an opinion. I simply hope that this doesn't start a series of vip-only type of thread.

Don't get me wrong, the OP was far from being antagonistic, but the inclusiveness of "others" was unclear.

*sigh* I'm probably reading much more into this than I should...

'findel


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hm. What does one say in a LGBT community thread? "Boy, I sure do love musical theater?" :)

It's a gamer thread, so I guess what I do whilst being gay and gaming is the thing.

Most of my characters are gay. A minority have concepts that work better if they're asexual or straight instead, so those characters are asexual or straight. Why not? Most straight people play straight characters. I imagine they find it easier to relate to. I am generally drawn to characterization and plot elements that have some affinity to the real world struggles of gay people for the same reason. I've played happy, out characters and angsty closet cases both.

I'm out to everyone I game with, but I game online so that's a pretty safe option for me.


This thread's boring--too much arguing, not enough hawt sex!!

Goblins listen to musical theater in the street!


loaba wrote:
I'm saying there has got to be more to you than your sexual preference(s).

I assure you my friend that there is nothing about me that is shallow or one dimensional and the same has held true for the vast majority of LGBT people I have known.


Laurefindel wrote:

@ dogbladewarrior

Good luck with that thread (and I say that sincerely, not sarcastically), I'm curious to see if it will lead to anything but arguments that have nothing to do with the OP (even if this kind of discussion isn't necessarily pointless in the end). Posts like mine basically...

I for myself am not quite sure how to react to this thread, and whether or not as a strait individual I should participate or if I would be welcomed as a participant. I would have the same kind of conundrum if this was a thread about a creating a female community, a Black community, a Muslim community or as Shifty puts it, a community for those with blue eyes.

I'm posting this because I never felt excluded from any threads on these boards before, if only to defend a position/opinion/experience that differs from that of the OP. For me, this differs from threads about those who like Josh Whedon as it doesn't relate to an opinion. I simply hope that this doesn't start a series of vip-only type of thread.

Don't get me wrong, the OP was far from being antagonistic, but the inclusiveness of "others" was unclear.

*sigh* I'm probably reading much more into this than I should...

'findel

Anyone who would like to may post, though I would prefer kind hearted intentions rather than antagonistic ones. I didn't mean to make you feel left out. Say what you like, just be nice. Actually if people have questions about how many of us experience life here would be an ok place to ask them. We might manage to promote a bit more understanding then normally exists in our current world.

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