|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Proximity: This trigger activates the trap when a creature approaches within a certain distance of it. A proximity trigger differs from a location trigger in that the creature need not be standing in a particular square. Creatures that are flying can spring a trap with a proximity trigger but not one with a location trigger. Mechanical proximity triggers are extremely sensitive to the slightest change in the air. This makes them useful only in places such as crypts, where the air is unusually still.
So for the sake of arguement, let's put a Fireball Trap on the floor in the middle of a U-shaped 5-ft wide hallway, 15 feet from either corner. Its triggering condition is: proximity.
Q1: Is there any chance to find the trap without triggering the trap by meeting its requirements?
Q2: How would a rogue disable the trap without triggering it?
I searched for earlier threads on the same subject but didn't find anything that applied specifically to my questions. Perhaps someone has a higher Search modifier.
Logically, it can be argued it is undetectable before being triggered and you can't get to it to disable it without triggering it. Gotcha!
This is why DMs shouldn't meta-game either.
Q1: Is there any chance to find the trap without triggering the trap by meeting its requirements?
Yes. The rules for trap detecting are clear. "Creatures that succeed on a Perception check detect a trap before it is triggered. (PFRPG 416)"
Q2: How would a rogue disable the trap without triggering it?
The same way. If the rogue beats the DC he successfully disables it without triggering it.
How does a rogue do either of these? I don't know or really care, you can add any justification you see fit and someone else will supply a counter argument, and the cycle continues ad naseum. I'd rather just get on with it and play the game.
I'm not sure exactly the layout you're talking about, but I think its this:
╔═══←Rogue is here.
║←Trap is here.
╚═══
Lets look at the perception modifiers.
+1 for being 15 feet away.
+10/foot of thickness of wall. 15' down and 5' over... Square root of (15^2+5^2) is about 19 feet.. so +190..... now at +191 plus the DC of the trap.
Yeah, pretty much this is why rogues get trapfinding, evasion and improved evasion. Diplomacy checks to gather info to learn about the trap and what it was keyed to bypass (people wearing a symbol of X, Race Y, etc.) Then change so that you meet those characteristics. Or just set it off and count on your reflex save.
In fact, if the rogue knows the trap is there, could he not carry a tower shield, ready an action to deploy the shield to grant total cover if the trap is set off, then move action forward?
|
I'm not sure exactly the layout you're talking about, but I think its this:
╔═══←Rogue is here.
║←Trap is here.
╚═══Lets look at the perception modifiers.
+1 for being 15 feet away.
+10/foot of thickness of wall. 15' down and 5' over... Square root of (15^2+5^2) is about 19 feet.. so +190..... now at +191 plus the DC of the trap.Yeah, pretty much this is why rogues get trapfinding, evasion and improved evasion. Diplomacy checks to gather info to learn about the trap and what it was keyed to bypass (people wearing a symbol of X, Race Y, etc.) Then change so that you meet those characteristics. Or just set it off and count on your reflex save.
In fact, if the rogue knows the trap is there, could he not carry a tower shield, ready an action to deploy the shield to grant total cover if the trap is set off, then move action forward?
Hold on... where did you get that +190 from? If I understood correctly, this is about a rogue walking down a corridor, and there's no wall between the rogue and the trap.
Hold on... where did you get that +190 from? If I understood correctly, this is about a rogue walking down a corridor, and there's no wall between the rogue and the trap.
Like I said, I'm not exactly sure what kind of hallway he is talking about. That's why I made my example. The 190 is because of 19 feet of wall between where I put the rogue and where the trap is.
|
|
Tarantula, you have the right visualization for the example I was using. The problem lies in the discussion we had before about how traps are detected, and the wording of the "proximity" condition. In my view it is something of a contradiction, but I'd like to hear other perspectives.
I withdraw the second question: the Disable Device skill has no listed limit to its range, and magical traps just require the trapfinding class feature to tamper with.
Like I said, its probably best for the rogue to use diplomacy to gather info prior to heading there. As long as the rogue knows where the trap is, you can then disable device to not set it off and disable it. How thats done magically... up to the GM to describe.
Alternately, since there is rock in the way, and proximity spells are made with alarm or detect (something) spells.
Both alarm and detect (stuff) are emanations. Emanations don't go around corners. "An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres."
"A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends."
So no one would set the trap off until they entered the corner square.
And upon getting within 10', a character with trap spotter would get an automatic check to notice the trap prior to setting it off.
It doesn't prevent it Vendle. Detect magic should show the aura. That'll clue you to what it is. Make a check, figure out its probably a magical trap, and send the rogue in with a disable device. Sometimes its not a solo-effort.