While browsing around trying to find the answer, I found a post from July 2011 by The black raven that answered this question.
Quoted text below:
When you are mounted, it is the mount which is using its actions to move or to charge, not the rider (CRB, page 202).
Since the Overrun combat maneuver must be taken "during your move or as part of a charge" (CRB, page 201), only the mount can do it and not the rider.
If the rider has Improved Overrun, he will not benefit from it since he is not the one doing the Overrun. Of course, neither will the mount.
If the mount has Improved Overrun, it will benefit from it, but, by RAW, the rider will not. Note however that the rider is not exposed to an AoO from trying an Overrun, since it is the mount who does the attempt. However, the rider will provoke an AoO when he will move out of a threatened square, including when he (and his mount) move into the target's space.
OK, but what about the wording of the Trample feat?
"When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you."
Clearly the RIDER is making the overrun attempt, even though they are mounted.
That being the case, the rider would be able to use the Improved Overrun feat if he had it (because he is making the overrun attempt).
Right?
OK, but what about the wording of the Trample feat?
"When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you."
Clearly the RIDER is making the overrun attempt, even though they are mounted.
That being the case, the rider would be able to use the Improved Overrun feat if he had it (because he is making the overrun attempt).
Right?
No. Don't let a common feat wording snafu be an excuse to rewrite core rules. What's great about Trample is that the rider can take it at level 1, and you get the main benefit of the mount having Improved Overrun. That's it. It doesn't change core rules. The quote by black raven above is correct.
No. Don't let a common feat wording snafu be an excuse to rewrite core rules. What's great about Trample is that the rider can take it at level 1, and you get the main benefit of the mount having Improved Overrun. That's it. It doesn't change core rules. The quote by black raven above is correct.
Woah, woah -- Trample gives the mount the benefit of the Improved Overrun feat? Where does it say that?
And how do you know that your opinion takes precedence over what the Trample feat ACTUALLY SAYS? It says, "When YOU attempt to overrun an opponent..." Seems pretty clear to me.
My mistake. I meant Greater Overrun, which reads, "Whenever you overrun opponents, they provoke attacks of opportunity if they are knocked prone by your overrun." This amounts to the same hoof attack granted by Trample. That's all I meant to imply.
Respectfully, it probably "seems pretty clear" to you because you haven't read all the mounted threads yet, including the discussions that pop up in Ask James Jacobs. It is a pain in the ass and takes time, but it's there for you. If it helps, a feat intended to break the normal rule will typically specifically say so. Otherwise, using vague feat wording to reinterpret core rules doesn't really fly. That said, your gm can do whatever he wants.
Respectfully, it probably "seems pretty clear" to you because you haven't read all the mounted threads yet, including the discussions that pop up in Ask James Jacobs. It is a pain in the ass and takes time, but it's there for you. If it helps, a feat intended to break the normal rule will typically specifically say so. Otherwise, using vague feat wording to reinterpret core rules doesn't really fly. That said, your gm can do whatever he wants.
Actually, I AM the GM in this case, trying to help a player with his character (a cavalier). Just trying to figure out what the RAW and RAI really are/were. It's very confusing.
Let me see if I have this right:
Player would like to be able to ready a charge. Ordinarily he could do that with Improved Bull Rush and Rhino Charge.
While mounted, though... Hoo boy... Let me see if I have this straight:
The MOUNT would need to have Improved Bull Rush and Rhino Charge, and if it did... the cavalier riding it would be able to ready an action to charge?
And then he would be able to attack with his lance at the end of the charge?
Edit: No, wait -- maybe it's IMPOSSIBLE to ready a charge while mounted, because the MOUNT would need Bull Rush and Rhino Charge, but since your character doesn't actually have Rhino Charge he can't really make an attack at the end of the charge (but the MOUNT can). Right?
BUT! If the RIDER *also* has Rhino Charge... THEN! Then they can BOTH -- oh wait, the Rider isn't really charging, it's the MOUNT charging, so...
Wha?
I tend to assume all mounted combat rules use the riders feats and skills unless common sense suggests otherwise.
From a normal game play this works and means skilled riders on non animal companion mounts can still be dangerous.
However I have no clue where the raw stands the wording is inconsistent and the actual mounted combat rules are a poorly written mess.
But I think over all it fits that animal mounts are not making any decisions on their own
Thanks Mojorat.
Has it ever been formally resolved whether or not you can use Vital Strike while on a charging mount?
Specifically, a cavalier using a lance with Power Attack, Furious Focus, Vital Strike, Spirited Charge, and challenging?
Because that's not just damage, it's DAY-UM!-age.
No its not clear. The ruling to prevent rage lance pounce muddled it further.
I honestly am not sure which way I lean. Saying the rider charging on a mount has all the same limitations as a person charging on the ground simplifies things. But the rules are fuzzy.
The only thing ill say specifically agains vital strike is it really isn't necessary. They do more than enough damage. Essentially by lvl 8 or so anything charges short of a bbeg should become a fine red mist.
Howver I'm not sure vital strike is multiplied so adding an extra 1d8 may not matter.
There are many vital strike threads. To me, it's clear now. The rider is allowed a standard attack action when atop a moving mount. Vital Strike qualifies. A Vital Strike lancer with Impact on the lance is a real killer. Do a search for " mounted combat vital strike." There are a few great threads out there that helped me a lot with understanding mounted combat. If we were to divide into camps, I would align myself with a poster called Ssalarn. He's put together a few posts on this that I feel may as well be drafted as canon. He has much more patience for painstakingly laying it all out than I do. If I tried, I would just end up quoting him anyway.
If you review these threads, you will see this SKR quote over and over:
If YOU are mounted, the MOUNT is making the charge, YOU are NOT making a charge. The mounted combat rules specifically say that you only get ONE attack if your mount charges.
The above also supports that overrun is used by the mount. Overrun can be used as part of a charge. Since it is the mount charging, it would be the mount that also makes the overrun attempt, though it is the rider who directs the mount to do these things.
A character with a special mount is better off giving these feats to the mount regardless, in my opinion, because you get an overall better feat spread.