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SPOILERS...
I see a pretty big problem in Pett's otherwise excellent adventure.
We PCs are asked to find evidence, one way or the other, about the Beast's involvement in a handful of crimes he's accused of because the Judge is certain that it will not be a fair trial otherwise.
So here's what happens:
1: The Beast is caught at the university after doing about a million bucks of damage breaking-and-entering and the Seasage Effigy has been stolen.
2: Now the Beast is also charged with murdering some bumpkins in the swamp.
- We the PCs show.
3: Now the Beast is charged with burning down an asylum and the involuntary manslaughter that goes with it.
- We the PCs show.
4: Now the Beast is charged with killing some children; he even laughed at the little girl's murder.
- We the PCs show.
Oh Frabjous day, Calloo Callay!
The Beast is innocent afterall. F.U. to all the jerk citizens; the Beast can go to Daddy at his castle. He's free.
That's what happens.
Duh! He was captured there.
Red-handed.
Dazed and Confused for so long it's not true.
He did it.
Fine, we learn LATER that the Whispering Way used some device to take control of him and they're the guilty ones, but WE DON'T KNOW THAT (at least can't prove it) at trial!
What did we miss?
(Or did Pett and Jacobs miss it?)
I agree this is a fundamental problem. Also, the backstory indicates the Beast is accused of (and in fact guilty of) OTHER crimes. They just decided to put him on trial for those few crimes. Based on the theft of the effigy and the other crimes, there is no way he would be released, even if acquitted. A suspect in his situation wouldn't be released in the United States TODAY, much less in the less-suspect-friendly legal system of old Lepidstadt. As a GM, I think the way I'm going to handle this is The Beast will break out and escape regardless of the outcome of the trial, because even if he is acquitted he isn't going to be released. (Maybe he'll break out in a rage when, after his acquittal, it is announced he will be held over for trial on OTHER charges.) But the PCs get more experience if they succeed...
The only "explanation" I could come up with is this:
"Cause damages are not punishable by death, we choose not to file charges as we wouldn’t know how to hold the creature and we can't see the point in imprison a senseless creature."
on the other hand, maybe "daddy" will pay? Just to keep his secret save....maybe.
dotting
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I was musing over this the other day...
I think I may have the Beast condemned to death regardless, (especially as I have introduced an NPC Inquisitor there to oversee the execution).
Success at the diplomacy checks will accomplish two other things rather than acquitting the beast:
1. It will convince the Beast that there are people who will go above and beyond even for a creature such as himself, and prevent him from crossing the line into villainy.
2. It will convince Judge Daramid that the PCs are worth bringing into her confidence as members of the Palatine Eye. She will also get them outfitted with some gifts from the Order's unofficial armory (to help offset the lack of wealth later in the module.)
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The Beast is on trial for the three crimes you mentioned in the first post. Nothing else. As you said, they picked these three crimes because they had the most evidence. It's a bit odd that they're not prosecuting the Beast for the damage at the university, too, but as Windspirit said, they are specifically going for the death penalty.
If the party succeeds, the town could always try to re-capture the Beast and put him on trail for the university, if they wanted.
And more importantly, it's a much better story if the PCs find the evidence and make their rolls and against all odds the beast is acquitted. Bear in mind the townspeople don't have to accept that, and may well mob in with pitchforks and torches.
My read on the Beast was, from the first, that he's a useful scapegoat or boogyman for everything that goes wrong in the area, and isn't actually guilty of anything. The narrative is classic Frankenstein; the misunderstood monster. The beast may have killed someone, sure, but the PCs have likely killed far more people at this point in more suspect circumstances ;)
Now if you want the story to be about the hopelessness of the judicial system and the futility of proving innocence, you can have him executed anyway. That's pretty dark but is definitely in keeping with the overall tone of this adventure path. Just make sure your players are on board with that, because it can be pretty disheartening to find your efforts have been futile. :)
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The citizens of Lepistadt want blood for blood. They couldn't care less about the disappearance of an obscure relic from the university's stuffy old museum.
Besides, if he's found guilty of theft, breaking & entering, property damage, etc., what will the sentence be? Community service? I think everyone in the city, from the mob on up to the Chief Justice, would like to see the Beast either die or get the hell out of Dodge.
I imagine that they'd be removing a hand for theft. Ustalav's justiciary doesn't seem keen on "community service". :)
Could also put him under 'house arrest' pending further trial into the damages case. Or have daddy successfully bribe away those charges (in that destruction is easy to bribe away, murder and death isn't).
There isn't any reason to think criminal procedure in Lepidstadt would be more suspect-friendly than modern criminal procedure, and under modern procedure if a defendant is acquitted but there is evidence he committed other crimes, he will be held awaiting trial for the additional crimes. That is the most logical thing to happen if the Beast is acquitted -- the prosecutor will request the Beast be held for a short period until new charges can be filed. That may be frustrating for players who put on a good defense, but it makes no sense that the Beast would be released. But he won't just be sentenced to die before being tried for another crime. In any event, he'll break loose once he's informed he has to stand trial again.
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Well, again, it's "we the PCs." I'm not the DM. (this time)
It just seems to me -- in hindsight -- to be a mistake. Of course, I thought of it a couple sessions after-the-fact.
I just can't see a way around this, though. The Beast was captured at the university. How is it that that charge, lesser crime though it may be, is ignored? ESPECIALLY since we proved his innocence and the townsfolk STILL wanted his blood!
@ Nathonicus,
I wouldn't have the Beast be condemned for death for two reasons: First, the PCs should have a chance to save him and Second, because he's what the PCs need to kill that monters-flesh-golem in Schloss Caramark.
(I thought I was SOOO brilliant for coming up with the idea to convince the Beast to help us kill the other monster and save "Daddy" only to be told that Pett's adventure specifically states that we PCs need the Beast's help.) DOH!
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@Voomer... I think you are right - held for future trial of other crimes is probably better.
@W E Ra... I didn't say they were going to be able to actually kill him. ;) As written, the AP doesn't really care if the PCs succeed or not anyway, as the Beast breaks free if condemned.
Which is a second problem for the module... the Beast could break free at any time, so why doesn't he? I've tried to solve this by making the beast smarter and more "classic monster" than the AP. The people of Lepidstadt think that they have put the Beast on trial, but in reality, he is sitting in judgement of those who would condemn him.
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As written, the AP doesn't really care if the PCs succeed or not anyway, as the Beast breaks free if condemned.
Ah, I didn't know that.
(I'm playing through it, not reading it. So I just know what happens over the table and what the DM and we Players talk about after the gaming sessions.).
Incidentally you guys can read the Campaign Journal I started called "The Epistles of Robin Van Persie: A Varisian in Carrion Crown"
It's got, like, 3 whole posts (never managed to keep up with it LOL)
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As written, the AP doesn't really care if the PCs succeed or not anyway, as the Beast breaks free if condemned.Ah, I didn't know that.
(I'm playing through it, not reading it. So I just know what happens over the table and what the DM and we Players talk about after the gaming sessions.)
.Incidentally you guys can read the Campaign Journal I started called "The Epistles of Robin Van Persie: A Varisian in Carrion Crown"
It's got, like, 3 whole posts (never managed to keep up with it LOL)
Dangt! I saw the spoilers tag and thought this was a DM thread.
Ooops....
Sorry, hope I didn't ruin anything!
I imagine that they'd be removing a hand for theft. Ustalav's justiciary doesn't seem keen on "community service". :)
LOL..THIS just got me thinking....mini adventure for between APs. PCs do comunial services:
- grave digging - fight of the rising undead- clean out spooky house
- tax collector (super horror..lol)
As for the beast. Comunial service isnt that bad an idea...they still have a city wall to build.
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Spoilers for "Trial of the Beast" are fine; we're finished and have played a session of "Broken Moon" -- so we won't talk about "Broken Moon" -- but Pett's adventure is fine. The DM allows me to read the stuff when we're done, trusting me to quickly look away if it looks like I'm reading something that'll spoil stuff later in the campaign. I'm allowed to read "Haunting of Harrowstone" and "Trial of the Beast" cuz we're done. But I haven't really had much time.
I would not recommend you read those modules! Sure, most of it is specific to the particular module, but there are plenty of references to later events. I certainly would not allow it in my campaign. Why not just wait until the AP is over? Paizo is always putting out tons of good stuff to read!
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Well, I haven't read them yet.
And obviously I asked the DM if there was any spoiler danger and he's said, "No."
And I'm pretty good about recognizing if a particular paragraph or section is gonna have some spoiler potential and avoid it before it's too late.
For me, I'll enjoy the Campaign much more if I can go back and read a particular dungeon or encounter or whatever after we've done it. I've never done it before (and haven't had the time yet here) but the DM knows I HATE spoilers and will avoid ruining anything for myself.
Thanks though.
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A good way to work around this problem is to say that the beast has been found guilty of property damage to the university, but not of any of the other charges. since breaking and entering is not punishable by death, the beast is instead banished from Lepidstadt, and will be arrested if it tries to re-enter city limits.
My way of handling this has been to merge a bunch of ideas on these forums and some of my own as follows:
The antiquities department, run by Crowl, has a "vault", which is nothing more than the room in which all of the items both magical and curious were stored. This room is locked by a puzzle door (created by Lorrimor years ago). The door, for the most part, is left open because the locking mechanism while "neat" is cumbersome and tedious to use (i.e. Crowl is a bit lazy). Also, the room is well trapped with force and fire, elemental and electrical strikes (anyone stepping into the room without proper authorization triggers so many magical traps in the doorway that he would be practically vaporized on the spot).
Although aristocratic rule was seen as bad for the people, Caromarc was not a bad ruler. He had crossed paths(ways?) with the WW before and had earned the enmity of AA. Needless to say, out of favor with the populace, short on protection, Caromarc is now vulnerable. Plus, there's the added bonus of being able to control a construct, immune to magic, to get him the Seasage Effigy (addressed later) - which as someone suggested was dropped into the waiting arms of Waxwood outside the window (who was there to get the statuette because AV was holding Caromarc hostage - promising to let him live on compliance - turns out AV kept his side of the bargain...).
The antiquities vault requires a "key" (instructions) to operate the locking mechanism. The scroll with this information was negligently left inside the vault after it was opened the last time (carried in by Crowl and carelessly set down after he opened the door). When the Beast came in and appropriated the effigy, he left, slamming the door behind him and effectively relocking the door. I left it to the PCs to figure out the locking mechanism (puzzle). Their earned and promised money and a "prize" (wand of bull's strength awaited them inside) - more on this if asked.
The Seasage Effigy is really a statuette inside a statuette. It is the magical creation we learn it's supposed to be in WotW, wrapped in a thin layer of lead, wrapped in a layer of stone created by a druid's Stone Shape to mask it's true nature. This is why it was an unknown stone (it didn't conform to standard stone formation) and why it didn't detect as magic (lead blocks the aura).
And to directly address the OP's point, the Beast has been the scapegoat of crimes for the last 20 years. The idea that the people and even the judges of Lepidstadt are just going to be "ok" with the Beast being set free is somewhat unlikely.
The break-in and burglaring of the Seasage Effigy at the University is only one of many possible crimes that the Beast could be held on for further trial.
There are two completely viable alternatives here:
1) The Beast is held: Either the Beast is found guilty of the three main charges brought against it because of inadequate defense and held for execution the following day, or the Beast is found innocent of those charges and still held pending further charges to be brought the following day. In either case, the Beast can break free that night.
2) The Beast is found innocent and freed, but given a warning to never come within 10 miles of Lepidstadt again under penalty of death.
The reason they may not hold the Beast for further charges is that they have even less evidence to convict him of those than they had for the three massacres or the crimes were of much lesser degree (such as the break-in at the University). As for the break-in, all they've got is trespassing and vandalism. He didn't really resist the guards, nor could they have proven he stole an item of value in the Seasage Effigy (what's it's value? if he was caught red-handed, then where is it?).
I'm not sure which way I want to go with this. On the one hand, I want to reward the players for successfully defending the Beast, but on the other hand, the darker "even when we win, we lose" seems more in keeping with the whole Ustalav/dark AP/Carrion Crown theme.
What do you all think?
I think the "even when we win, we lose" approach is totally appropriate here. The PCs will get the satisfaction and more experience points if they win, and the fact that The Beast was acquitted on the original charges will have an impact on segments of the public, even though his subsequent escape will indicate he's still a danger. Frankly, if he's acquitted, escapes, and never shows his face again, the rulers might decide not to expend too many resources on the pursuit. I don't think that approach denies too much of the victory from the players.
They were rather upset with the verdict being rendered moot by the additional charges leveled by Otto after the innocent verdict. Upset to the point of almost-mutiny, I think! :D
They were saying things like, "We're going to have to do this all again!?!?" And coming up with alternate solutions.
After the verdict was read, the Beast looked up hopefully. He stood and moved expectantly to the door of the cage in which he stood there in the courtroom, when Otto screamed out, "Nooo! This beast is still to answer for several individual murders as well as the caught-in-the-act destruction at the University! I charge the Beast with destruction of property!, the murder of the family Erestoks three years ago while they were traveling to Caliphas!, the heinous slaughter of the child Greta Nelsinki!, and the abduction of the Lady Corstine from Taldor!"
Later, Daramid told them they had "done enough". She thanked them for their service and saw they got paid. The session had to break up then without any relief to what happened.
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As I recall very little damage was done to the university, just a broken door and some smashed items of little value. You can't peg the theft on the beast since he does not not have the item. In any case the castle is more messed up than the trial. Creatures that cannot fit at all inside that are patrolling, the complete lack of wealth in the ap, required theft, the complete lack of reason to be at the castle to begin with...no windows are listed but you should be able to skip almost everything with a few fly spells.
Wow, Drift: harsh appraisal. You're absolutely right on those issues regarding the castle, however, taking the approach we discussed above (i.e. the emotional outburst of an angry prosecutor charging the Beast in spite of a lack of evidence of any great crime) - the beast cried out the, "Go see Caromarc! He can help me!" Of course, my group was like, "Oh, so now he tells us. Before it was just father this and father that and father is 'north'. Now he knows just what to say." (Which I don't blame them for.) This gives them a reason, but it's not the only reason they'll have when I'm done.
Flying is always possible, but they don't know where to go. Lack of wealth also helps to prevent a great deal of money expenditure on things like flying magic items and allows me to introduce my own items to customize or to entice my players to do things they might not have any other reason to do.
As for the castle dimensions - the room sizes are kinda silly, but just making each square 10' instead of 5' is a simple solution. My only real complaint is that I display these "maps" on a screen to my players (because they always look so much better than black lines on a battlemap). So, I don't know how to deal with the discrepancy of the size of the bridges relative to the increased size of the rooms. I'm probably going to doctor the images.
After the verdict was read, the Beast looked up hopefully. He stood and moved expectantly to the door of the cage in which he stood there in the courtroom, when Otto screamed out, "Nooo! This beast is still to answer for several individual murders as well as the caught-in-the-act destruction at the University! I charge the Beast with destruction of property!, the murder of the family Erestoks three years ago while they were traveling to Caliphas!, the heinous slaughter of the child Greta Nelsinki!, and the abduction of the Lady Corstine from Taldor!"
This is great and sounds wholly appropriate. I actually had the barrister warn my PCs that The Beast would probably be tried for other crimes if acquitted of the three at issue in the present trial, but that did not deter them because (1) they are sympathetic to The Beast; (2) they think, quite correctly, that an acquittal on these charges would help make future prosecutions fairer; (3) they are getting paid handsomely; and (4), most importantly, they suspect the WW is involved with at least the theft, so they are motivated to investigate The Beast's connection to the WW.
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A bit of thread necromancy, but I wanted to chime in now that I've run the trial.
I actually used the oddities to put the differences of Lepidstat's judicial system in the forefront. My players know better than to assume that, just because the word "trial" is used, there will be anything remotely resembling modern due process.
Even at the base we can see some obvious differences: Lepidstat crams it's witnesses into the Prosecution and Defenses quarters until they are needed for testimony, which depending on the perception modifiers of the individual, may mean the PCs have no idea how the Prosecution approached things that day. It allows "surrogate witnesses" as the PCs can relate everything from testimony from other witnesses, the results of speak with dead, and even confessions. Even the concept of "probable cause" exists in a nebulous state of being totally absent or constantly assumed as the adventure unfolds.
That being the case, I made up a few specific "aspects" of Lepidstat legality, running on the elitist scholarly attitude of the city as a whole, to both emphasise the divide between the real world American justice system and the Lepidstat system, as well as explain the plot holes.
1: Reversed Double Jeopardy. Lepidstat will not try a case twice. To do so would imply that justice is a wavering, unsure thing. This puts massive pressure on the PCs to bring Vorkstag and Grine in by day 3, because if they don't, the duo gets off scott-free on those particular charges.
2: Trial/Justice limits. As there are three Justices, so too must there be three crimes. I decided that most "stand-alone" crimes required only one justice to preside over, even if they involved a lot of people, but a repeat offender with multiple locations and events worthy of the death penalty would require three justices, but also be limited to three crimes of the prosecution's choice. This way the trial could be kept free of distractions from endless minor cases and cut to the truth of the matter. The needs of justice outweigh the grievances of individuals. Conversely, if the prosecution could not win with a stacked deck, why waste time with lesser cases that may be harder to prove?
3: Forgiveness is easier than permission. The town demands that justice be done, one way or another. Yet for such a lawful attitude, Lepidstat is a Neutral settlement. I figured that actually getting evidence and results would cause quite the blind eye to be turned regarding probable cause. The proof of V&Gs involvement completely validated any breaking and entering necessary to get it.
These "rules" worked well for me. It put the timeline pressure on, which made endurance and fatigue important factors, especially for the arcane casters. It helped to emphasize Lepidstat as a city caught in a spiral of its own scholarship and legislation, mired in hypocrisy even as it strives to reach philosophical heights. And most importantly it nicely paved over the plot-holes so my PCs didn't fall into them.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Well, since we're necro-ing, here's an answer:
The University declines to press charges against the Beast for the break-in. No explanation is given publicly, but the reason is Caromarc's influence at the University.
The mob will want the beast no matter what in my game.
They will go to the castle looking for the beast, but the whispering way will stop them and behead all them, with a headless horseman and use the bodies down the road.
Stole this idea from raksasha
As for the trial there are a lot of good explanations on this thread
In my game, the Beast has been put on trial for three crimes chosen by the prosecutor because they were committed recently, there are reliable witnesses, and they’re capital crimes. Being convicted of even one will earn the Beast the death sentence. The break-in is small potatoes--why waste a day in court trying the Beast for something that would earn him a few years behind bars when he’s going to burn?
When the final day in court comes, and the players present the Cabinet of Faces, the prosecuter is going to be shocked and appalled--he knew those people, or thought he did. He most especially knew Madam Olga. His courtroom demeanor will collapse, and he’ll be too stunned when the innocent verdict comes out to demand that the Beast be held to answer further charges.
The party will then face the dilemma of how to get the Beast to safety.
I'm still preparing to run Haunting of Harrowstone, so I haven't looked at this module in depth yet. However I was thinking that the Beast stealing the Seasage Effigy could easily be removed from the adventure.
Instead the PCs represent the beast in the legal trial for other reasons and if they succeed and win the beast's trust he can inform them about the whispering way's interest in his father's home (his work on false life seems to be relevant and interesting to the WW's philosophy).