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4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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I couldn't find if this had been answered before but the Samurai Archetype Sword Saint replaces the "Mounted Charge" ability with Brutal Slash at 3rd level. Here is the problem that I see.
The samurai doesn't get an ability called Mounted Charge. He gets Mounted Archer at 4th level. So either he gets an ability at 3 that replaces an ability that he usually got at 4 or he gets the Brutal Slash ability at 4 and the level availability listed in the ability is just a typo.
My real question is can a Cavalier take the Sword Saint Archetype? The samurai is an alternate class of the cavalier and they can share Orders. The cavalier has all of the abilities to give up for Sword Saint. Heck, the cavalier is more qualified for the archetype than the samurai because the cavelier has a "charge" ability to give up at 3rd level and the samurai obviously doesn't.
I personally love the idea of a Gendarme Sword Saint Cavalier for the more western themed games. Simply rename Iaijutsu Strike to Focused Strike or Decisive Strike and you are golden.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I'm going to say that the answer is no. They're not the same class, they're not archetypes of each other. And the sword saint is definitely a product of the cultural background the sammurai comes from.
I understand the cultural reference but that is why I would personally rename the ability in game to reflect a more western theme.
As to the heart of the question, the rules for Alternate Classes state that they *are* essentially the same class but with enough differences that they warranted a new write-up. I believe the exact words from the devs was "more involved than an archetype but less than an all new base class", and in the case of the Cavalier and Samurai they can share orders. You can be a Ronin Cavalier if you want (per the rules) or an Order of the Cockatrice Samurai.
I think we need some clarification here as this is the first (to my knowledge) archetype for an alternate class (something the devs said wasn't supposed to happen :-p).
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Wanna know something really funny? The Cavalier base class doesn't have a class ability called "Mounted Charge" either ;-) Technically speaking neither the Cavalier nor the Samurai can take this archetype.
Personally speaking I see no reason not to allow the base cavalier to take the Sword Saint arch type. It's a fun arch type that doesn't substantially increase the power level of the character but does allow a tad more flexibility. This would, however, fall into the realm of a house rule so you'd need to speak to your GM about it.
The Knight of the Sepulcher is an archetype for the Antipaladin, so it's not the first. I, personally, would rule it as a typo, that it replaces mounted archery, and you get it at 4th level.
But it does raise interesting questions to the relationship between alternate classes, their base classes, and the archetypes. I think one of the developers would have to give an answer to that.
Ah yeah, forgot about the Antipaladin archetype. Still, I wouldn't mind hearing from the Devs on the issue as my group tend to take their word as canon. I admit that I'll be a bit dissapointed when they rule as DystopianDream suggests (and they probably will considering their penchant for preferring to keep their classes tied to the fluff) because I do like the idea of a cavalier swordsman. But hey, whatcha gonna do?
Rules wise, a Samurai is a Cavalier, a Ninja is a Rogue, and Antipaladin is a Paladin. This includes spells, feats, magic items, and archetypes. They are the same thing.
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz58mm?can-alternate-classes-and-archetypes-be-mi xed#9
blackbloodtroll wrote: Rules wise, a Samurai is a Cavalier, a Ninja is a Rogue, and Antipaladin is a Paladin. This includes spells, feats, magic items, and archetypes. They are the same thing.
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz58mm?can-alternate-classes-and-archetypes-be-mi xed#9
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@Christopher Rowe - If I were your GM I'd approve it (basically I was going to write the same comment as Kievel). Talk to your GM, if he/she decides that this is something mechanically that fits with their game then you can work on figuring out exactly how to skin the appearance/backstory of your character.
Speaking of mechanics, I am kind of curious to know how the Sword Saint Gendarme would work. Sword Saint forfeits the mount class ability and gendarme seems to be a mount-focused character. Are you thinking of dipping some other class that provides a mount and using companion boon? Otherwise it seems like you'll either be maxing out the ride skill or going through an endless line of disposable horses.
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