Goblin Squad Member
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If a game were designed with RP and RPers as a central focus, what type of mechanics would we like to see? This discussion could include ideas that other games have, what other games lack, and even a discussion of new ideas...all focused on making an ideal "high-RP" game.
Open PvP is an obvious one. I know many PvE-RPers might decry PvP, but in my opinion, RP requires as much player freedom as possible. I should be able to do what my character would do in a give situation. If my character would attack another that was considered an ally because they are doing something evil...then they should be able to do so. Non-open PvP creates artificial limits on ones actions. I am not arguing that there should not be repercussions for ones actions, only that the freedom should exist to act as you decide.
Metagaming...this concern was mentioned much earlier in the "wishlist" thread. The concern was the manner in traditional MMOs that your characters information is displayed, even to those who have no justification for knowing it.
Local chat channels versus the more traditional MMO chats. Which makes sense and why...solely from the RP perspective.
What else would we want to make the perfect RP focused MMO?
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An anti-OOC text filter. Obvious anachronisms get filtered out in public chat.
'Garth is a total newb and he sux. Let's port to COD without him.'
<Blaarg> "Garth is a total novice and he reeks. Let's teleport to the Caverns of Despair without him."
'WTF that's not wat I typed'
<Blaarg> "Nine Hells, that's not what I said"
'LOL OMGWTF??!'
<Blaarg> "Ha! Gods, what in the Abyss??!"
'WTF'
<Blaarg> "Nine Hells!"
I'm only half-joking.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If a game were designed with RP and RPers as a central focus, what type of mechanics would we like to see? This discussion could include ideas that other games have, what other games lack, and even a discussion of new ideas...all focused on making an ideal "high-RP" game.
Open PvP is an obvious one. I know many PvE-RPers might decry PvP, but in my opinion, RP requires as much player freedom as possible. I should be able to do what my character would do in a give situation. If my character would attack another that was considered an ally because they are doing something evil...then they should be able to do so. Non-open PvP creates artificial limits on ones actions. I am not arguing that there should not be repercussions for ones actions, only that the freedom should exist to act as you decide.
Metagaming...this concern was mentioned much earlier in the "wishlist" thread. The concern was the manner in traditional MMOs that your characters information is displayed, even to those who have no justification for knowing it.
Local chat channels versus the more traditional MMO chats. Which makes sense and why...solely from the RP perspective.
What else would we want to make the perfect RP focused MMO?
A separate IC OOC channel in chat. Possibly separate Notations when talking in the game. Say IC chat shows up in blue, but flipping to the OOC channel shows it in yellow.
Most importantly, a mandatory tutorial on your first character that explains what IC and OOC are (as an addition to the tutorial to explain the rules). I think the biggest drawback to RP in most games, is that people who know what actual RP is are in the minority and as a result people who don't understand RP take over even the RP side with their own guesses, scaring off the RPers who want to take it more seriously.
Blaaarg, I would like to have your babies.
A few other thoughts:
I would like to see the ability to create add ons (like WoW has) - because community driven RP tools are likely to be the best ones.
A very wide range of emotes is essential. Friendly (e.g. hugs, cheers, laugh), unfriendly (snarl, shake fist, rude gesture, I keeel you), neutral (ssh!, confusled, trap!) and just plain silly (dances, blow raspberry, behind you! its the goodyear blimp!, made you look! Clowning around). These sorts of things are essential, as is the ability to create custom emotes which don't necessarily have an animation associated with them.
The ability to turn on speech bubbles - and equally the ability to turn them off for those that hate them.
Character animations when using the equivalent of the 'immediate area' chat channel (/say in most games I've played) so you know who's talking even if you don't have the speech bubble facility on.
The ability for players to actively create and trade in game items that have no actual effect (e.g. write in game books, notes, create artwork and cloak designs etc etc)
Lying in beds, sitting in chairs (DDO, I'm looking at you, and shaking my head)
Cosmetic items which can be worn without necessarily first taking off a useful piece of gear - and perhaps a toggle that allows you the choice *not* to do this for the hardcore RPers.
Rep with factions affecting rep with other factions, and ideally alignment infractions - this is actually really important. These serve as both great RP tools as well as features good for an MMO generally - causing real in game effects based on individual player choice is often totally lacking in MMOs.
I'm sure there's more, but that's my main list.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ban Skype, teamspeak, ventrilo, etc.
These tools allow players to communicate efficiently and with a level of guaranteed privacy their characters would not have in-world.
Any or all planning of raids, PvP or private events should be mandatorily discussed in /say or via notes that can be overheard or intercepted if delivered. Spies should be able to overhear plots and foil them, or sell the information to interested parties.
Good intelligence is what makes or breaks a kingdom in that era. You can get a level of this from bribable players, but eyes or ears on intelligence gathering should be encouraged and available.
Ban Skype, teamspeak, ventrilo, etc.
These tools allow players to communicate efficiently and with a level of guaranteed privacy their characters would not have in-world.
Any or all planning of raids, PvP or private events should be mandatorily discussed in /say or via notes that can be overheard or intercepted if delivered. Spies should be able to overhear plots and foil them, or sell the information to interested parties.
Good intelligence is what makes or breaks a kingdom in that era. You can get a level of this from bribable players, but eyes or eras on intelligence gathering should be encouraged and available.
While I do see where you're coming from, that's a bit OTT in my view. planning and giving out instructions via type in a raid or other combat situation is impractical - and very unrealistic to boot. People cannot take their eyes off the huge dragon attempting to eat their faces just to type 'Fighter2, flank left on my mark...' '1' '2' '3' 'NOW!'
Voice chat is imperative for an MMO. Also, to really have the effect you're talking about, private chat channels, tells/whispers, and even guild chat would also have to be unavailable. And that's *just* as impractical from an MMO perspective.
Perhaps a compromise - voice chat should only be available if there's a wizard in the party, and they all get 'telepathy' for free at L1 (or whatever passes for levels...)?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ban Skype, teamspeak, ventrilo, etc.
These tools allow players to communicate efficiently and with a level of guaranteed privacy their characters would not have in-world.
Any or all planning of raids, PvP or private events should be mandatorily discussed in /say or via notes that can be overheard or intercepted if delivered. Spies should be able to overhear plots and foil them, or sell the information to interested parties.
Good intelligence is what makes or breaks a kingdom in that era. You can get a level of this from bribable players, but eyes or eras on intelligence gathering should be encouraged and available.
Lol, actually a true statement to what would be needed, also would involve complete prevention of alts etc... as the guild leader seeing first hand what the spy knows is also an equal issue. I highly doubt even the removing of a whisper feature or a universal guild chat would be a good idea for the longterm survivability of a game, considering roleplay or no allowing people to play with their friends is still a mandatory feature of any MMORPG.
I am greatly assuming this is a joke though. Considering vent/teamspeak/skype cannot be prevented via any means short of locking players into isolation chambers with a system that only contains the game installed. (Even if you wanted to imagine the client assuming a gameguard type program that detects skype etc... running and does not allow the 2 to run simultaneously, then people would plan outside of game, and others would load up skype/vent on a seperate laptop/android/iphone etc...
I believe the idea for roleplay has to be a carrot not a stick, because sticks are waay to easy to work around.
I also don't think Roleplay should be manditory for the game, I believe many are proposing systems to allow roleplay to thrive, without forcing it on those who have no interest in it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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How about having the voice chat a built in function of the game, and it's piped in, hearable to a certain radius by all?
And then not letting PFO execute if you have a 3rd party voice chat system process or application running?
I already answered that part. Just pretending that people won't override that feature, and that the players won't just come up with some other unique 3rd party chat program, All of those applications are also available for smart phones, many people have spare laptops/pcs around the house, virtual machines, ways to disguise it. Friends using plain old fashioned text messages, forums. Discussing battle plans while the game is not running. The ways to circumvent any protection like that are in the hundreds, and that's without even thinking about it for more then 5 minutes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But that'll ruin my gameplay as a spy for the sake of convenience...
EDIT: Yeah this was a joke. I had the idea of playing a spy-ish assassin, then realized there would really be no friggin way to actualy play such a thing, unless people were talking in /say all the time and got sloppy.
So one rediculous idea led to another...
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Goblin Squad Member
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But that'll ruin my gameplay as a spy for the sake of convenience...
It isn't convenience it is about possibility. Blocking people from communicating out of game, is not possible as I've mentioned numerous ways it will inevitably be circumvented, so the game has to adapt, and the spies have to adapt. I really hope they do offer an in game way to create a false identity on the same character rather then requiring a new character to be made, but either way you still technically can play a spy, just not in as good of an RP style. You can always throw together an alt character, and join whatever group you are spying on, and swindle your way to access to their vent/forum/guild chat etc... It may not be as dramatic, but just pretend to yourself it is a really good disguise spell.
Edit: lol was typing this before your edit appeared. woo my faith in humanity is largely restored :). You never can know on these forums lately.
But that'll ruin my gameplay as a spy for the sake of convenience...
I can't actually tell if you're joking or not. So I'm going to assume you're joking.
You seem to have the first element of what it takes to be a spy - a healthy does of extreme paranoia: you think people are going to be avoiding YOU specifically! You don't want to be a spy, you want to be an eavesdropper! Moreover, you think they'll do it to avoid YOU spying on them which means you don't think you're actually a very good spy, cos if you were, they wouldn't be trying to hide from you.
You're also suggesting people are going to use voice chat to avoid being spied on, as oppose to using it just because its easier. You know you *could* assume instead that if these folks actually want to Roleplay properly, in tune with the in game environment and available mechanisms, then they *will* be using /say (or whatever) because anything else would be metagaming and therefore not RP-kosher.
Though in WoW, the guild I was in always just used to pretend that our hearthstones auto-tuned to the guild's sub-thaum frequency to allow /g chat across the world. And there's no way to spy on that short of infiltration.
Lesson: If you want to be a really good *spy* in an MMO, then you need to learn to infiltrate. Mere eavesdropping's for lame-oid noobs, lol. Sorry. Let me rephrase that. Mere eavesdropping is for the amateur or new spy, guffaw.
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I'd second Onishi's idea though - a way for folk to create a genuine Alias with the same character would be an awesome RP tool.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For roleplaying to be fostered it must be meaningful. In order to make it meaningful, it must be a means to end, and it should be integrated from the get go. Otherwise it will always be just something on the side, and will barely, if at all, contribute to the overall atmosphere.
Animations, filters, etc are symptoms of what has become a near complete annihilation of the importance of roleplaying that has become the norm for MMORPGs for about the last 10 years. While they are useful, they do not do much to make roleplaying meaningful.
The question is, is roleplaying meaningful for PFO?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the contributions.
For roleplaying to be fostered it must be meaningful. In order to make it meaningful, it must be a means to end, and it should be integrated from the get go. Otherwise it will always be just something on the side, and will barely, if at all, contribute to the overall atmosphere.
Animations, filters, etc are symptoms of what has become a near complete annihilation of the importance of roleplaying that has become the norm for MMORPGs for about the last 10 years. While they are useful, they do not do much to make roleplaying meaningful.
The question is, is roleplaying meaningful for PFO?
Exactly, and that is how it has always felt to me...something on the side. As someone else mentioned, I am looking for carrot on the stick, not the stick ideas. We cannot force anyone to RP, but we want the game to work well for those who do...from the get go.
I too like the alias idea. I hope there is a way to hide who you are by making yourself appear to be someone else.
I know you were kidding, but I also like the idea of local voice chat available. If you want to talk to someone in private, you actually have to take your characters someplace private. Otherwise, the built-in voice chat broadcasts to all local players. Gives a good use for the whisper (and the like) spells...
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem is without a ref/GM you really can't have meaningful roleplay. Once you get into the realm of "massively" so many systems have to be automated as to render roleplay rollplay. Even with the hundred or so people at some of the GenCon LARPs the GMs have trouble keeping up, thousands of players will just increase these problems.
Then there is the problem of what one considers to be roleplay. We've encountered groups or players that didn't fit our play-style. Ask 6 different RPers what is roleplaying you will get a half-dozen different answers. Again imagine what you will get with thousands of players each with there own idea of what's important.
I have always RPed, even in WoW; and it was to me and my people "meaningful", so I am not sure what you mean. In WoW we RPed being an arrogant NE religious order, even on a PvP server we had no problem finding people who wanted to participate. Even with our racial restrictions, people just made alts to join us. It was fun...and we did most of our RP in out of the way areas. Had WoW offered more community building support such as instanced areas guilds could buy and build upon...we would probably still be there (but many of us also did not really play WoW, we played Azeroth...for instance, I never did an instance until I was maxed out at level 70...and even then, only did them as a guild).
As to the definition of RP...I agree, but many RPers would agree upon some fundamental empowerments; maybe not features, but freedoms. This is what I am looking for is a discussion of these.
Ban Skype, teamspeak, ventrilo, etc.
These tools allow players to communicate efficiently and with a level of guaranteed privacy their characters would not have in-world.
Any or all planning of raids, PvP or private events should be mandatorily discussed in /say or via notes that can be overheard or intercepted if delivered. Spies should be able to overhear plots and foil them, or sell the information to interested parties.
Good intelligence is what makes or breaks a kingdom in that era. You can get a level of this from bribable players, but eyes or ears on intelligence gathering should be encouraged and available.
Beside the fact that this would be a hugs pain in the rear to implement and keep track of, it would solve nothing and in the long term would make the issue worse.
If out of game voice chat ever truly becomes a huge in game advantage, and at the same time is supposed to be against the rules, then you can bet your last dollar that people will simply run a voice chat program on a second computer while running the PFO client on their main.
And anyone who doesn't do this (or cannot afford to do this) will be at even more of a disadvantage than people who choose to not use voice chat in current mainstream games.
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As to the basic UI of the game, I really don't want to be limited to what I can see about my character or what is going on in the world. I want HP bars, chat channels, vent, etc. It could be entirely possible to simply turn off the UI, turn on chat bubbles, and speak only in /say. I should be able to choose a more convenient level of interacting with the game.
On to suggestions. I second the 3rd party add-on capability. This has, IMO, been very successful in WoW.
As has the ease of making macros and arranging hotkeys/hotbars. Very convenient, even for RP. Got some poems you want your toon to have memorized? Want to announce your lineage to everyone you meet? Got a catch phrase you want to use in all your duels? Macros.
For lack of a better word, transmogrification. The ability to make items look how you want them to look. A cool feature even if RP never crosses your mind.
RP is an area where mini-games could really come into play. Something like a card game interface could be really cool (although any gambling would probably be with fake money--MMOs tend to frown on gambling). Other games could potentially be supported too, like chess, checkers, go, things people in Golarion might play. Maybe some NPCs might know how to play these games too.
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Tie as much of what we think of as "RP" behavior into the mechanics as possible. Hudax's card games are an excellent idea. People who can actually play cards don't have to pretend.
Imagine if walking (rather than running) indoors kept you from trouble with the locals because you're not running and knocking things over like a maniac.
Imagine if NPCs responded to emotes, if sitting in chairs or lying in beds increased your hp recovery rate, if people who had not mentioned their name to you had no name other than "Varisian merchant". "Keleshite adept". "Elven warrior", and, for those sneaks who throw on a black cloak to disappear, "Hooded figure".
Imagine players or GMs playing the part of intelligent monsters.
Raids would change drastically if dungeons were so dynamic that nobody could just go to Stratics and then tell his group "Ok boss is behind the left door and he's gonna drop such-and-such"
Roleplaying is pretending. The more consequences and effects you tie to elements of this game, the less people have to pretend. The swords and spells of battle seem real because they've got in-game crunch to back them up. Give that same strength to other social interactions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tie as much of what we think of as "RP" behavior into the mechanics as possible. Hudax's card games are an excellent idea. People who can actually play cards don't have to pretend.
Imagine if walking (rather than running) indoors kept you from trouble with the locals because you're not running and knocking things over like a maniac.
Imagine if NPCs responded to emotes, if sitting in chairs or lying in beds increased your hp recovery rate, if people who had not mentioned their name to you had no name other than "Varisian merchant". "Keleshite adept". "Elven warrior", and, for those sneaks who throw on a black cloak to disappear, "Hooded figure".
Imagine players or GMs playing the part of intelligent monsters.
Raids would change drastically if dungeons were so dynamic that nobody could just go to Stratics and then tell his group "Ok boss is behind the left door and he's gonna drop such-and-such"
Roleplaying is pretending. The more consequences and effects you tie to elements of this game, the less people have to pretend. The swords and spells of battle seem real because they've got in-game crunch to back them up. Give that same strength to other social interactions.
Agreed on all accounts. Thank you.
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I'm sure a lot of players don't consider that crap to be worth it, but it's my main draw to MMOs as a genre, frankly.
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As meta as this may be, if anything is ported in from Kingmaker let it be the notion that the buildings placed and requested are more than just kingdom/town stat blocks; I'd like them to function as much as 'set pieces' as tools of convenience. That is, NPCs actually go to the blacksmith and have work done, scripting challenge though that may be; if talked to while en route, it might open up the chain necessary to be able to do work at the blacksmith for extra cash and skill raising. Conversing with NPCs at the bar pave the way to unlocking special animations based on one's points in Perform, so that juggling, dancing, slight of hand, and other miscellaneous talents might not be de facto in every player's animation set, but can be unlocked through simple exploration and interaction. Give opportunities for social interactions to provide bonuses in the towns where players frequent - showing up at a feast hall in armor might garner one set of reactions, but showing up in something that flatters the figure and is customized by the local tailor to accentuate one's best traits might result in gaining much more attention and opportunity. There's ways to implement all manners of non-combat interactions, if looked at from such a perspective.
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There is a lot I would like to see.
First, mabinogi has a really cool feature when you type "XD" into chat even as part of another msg your toon would actually change facial expression to reflect that. That could easily be taken farther to full animations. If I type rofl my toon would fall on the floor laughing. That would be awesome.
Second, how does pickpocketing work with other players?
Third, don't limit tools, provide incentives.
Fourth, I should be able to make money as an entertainer. Mabinogi has a wonderful in game music composer which allows you to write music then actually play that music on a veriety of instruments(sadly no violins). To be able to import and share copies however should be easier.
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Fifth, food and rest can effect recovery speed and maxes. If you don't eat you don't regenerate stamina as fast, etc.
Sixth, don't make criminal on or off. And make it so being a criminal might not be known in other towns, how far and wide my status as a criminal is known should be based on how many witnesses and the number and severity of the crimes.
A mass murderer should be heard of far and wide but some small time thief not so much, unless a player takes my wanted poster to every town there is.
Seventh, allow more then the standard races. I very rarely play standard races and would be delighted to play a dragonwrought kobald on PFO.
First, mabinogi has a really cool feature when you type "XD" into chat even as part of another msg your toon would actually change facial expression to reflect that. That could easily be taken farther to full animations. If I type rofl my toon would fall on the floor laughing. That would be awesome.
The capabilities of facial animation will depend largely on the engine. A facial expression for "=D", "=)" and "=(" might be feasible, but beyond this it's probably directing too much of the animators time away from somewhere more useful (such as the wide range of animations already necessary for such a variety of races, especially considering the intended development time)
Second, how does pickpocketing work with other players?
I imagine if it exists at all it'll be similar to looting dead players, with a much smaller percentage of loot and without destroying everything else. But how will a player react? Can this be done in towns? Imagine AFKing in a known safe town and coming back to your pc to find all your stuff gone due to multiple pickpockets? Unless they can come up with a drawback free system, my guess is that it won't be in the game.
Third, don't limit tools, provide incentives.
How? Without active human surveillance how will the game know you're RPing and be able to reward you for it? I think any incentive will purely be from a Guild or Clan standpoint that only accepts RPers for example.
Fourth, I should be able to make money as an entertainer. Mabinogi has a wonderful in game music composer which allows you to write music then actually play that music on a veriety of instruments(sadly no violins). To be able to import and share copies however should be easier.
I love the idea of instruments in the game from a musical point of view (rather than as Bardesque weapons), and I love the idea of being able to make money as an entertainer. It'd need to be handled as a game mechanic and as a player driven market based off that. Maybe there are ranks in playing instruments enabling better sound quality, and booking yourself to play at an inn or tavern will increase NPC trade and even the attendance of RPers who bring trade also?
Guilds who own such taverns will benefit as will the musicians. I think this needs to be handled carefully however, or else it will simply be an overlooked feature that most people won't think twice about. (at the very least, if I own an inn, I want to be able to hire NPCs bards)
Fifth, food and rest can effect recovery speed and maxes. If you don't eat you don't regenerate stamina as fast, etc.
Definately love the sound of this. Anyone want to see a hunger level or thing it's pointless?
Sixth, don't make criminal on or off. And make it so being a criminal might not be known in other towns, how far and wide my status as a criminal is known should be based on how many witnesses and the number and severity of the crimes.A mass murderer should be heard of far and wide but some small time thief not so much, unless a player takes my wanted poster to every town there is.
Seperating guards according to faction and perhaps charging increasing fees to people who want to set Bounties in more than their current area should fix this. If you really piss someone off, maybe they'll pay extra to let the whole world know that you need killed. If it's minor, maybe only the local area and you can stow away to different land.
Seventh, allow more then the standard races. I very rarely play standard races and would be delighted to play a dragonwrought kobald on PFO.
Unlikely at release, and for certain races unlikely at all. Imagine the RP immersion if kobolds just wandered about as players, engaging in trade with every human, elf and dwarf in sight?
As for the games future, adding more races is always a solid way to start expanding the game and along with more lands, I guess we'll be likely to see both in future expansions.For now though, even the other races that WOULD fit in - The development plan is short and sweet compared to many other MMO releases and creating animations, voices, textures and customization options for each of the existing races (playable and otherwise) is likely to be a big enough challenge in itself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... so that juggling, dancing, slight of hand, and other miscellaneous talents might not be de facto in every player's animation set.
I would hope that skill-based animations, like juggling and sleight of hand, would actually be skill-based.
... mabinogi has a really cool feature when you type "XD" into chat even as part of another msg your toon would actually change facial expression to reflect that...
I would love to be able to set my mood and demeanor and have that show up when people inspect me by actually changing my facial expression.
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@zidash. For number 3, I was being rather less specific then the the rest and mostly was not wanting them to limit my options because of what a couple of people might do with them. Like kitnyx said, the more consequences and effects the less we have to pretend.
I just don't them to go "you can have any color you want" then allow only black because other colors might sometimes be disruptively used. Allow the colors and encourage people to not be disruptive.
... so that juggling, dancing, slight of hand, and other miscellaneous talents might not be de facto in every player's animation set.I would hope that skill-based animations, like juggling and sleight of hand, would actually be skill-based.
My phrasing apparently didn't carry the inference that it would be, but would still require the knowledge of how to perform said skills; i.e., many readers of this forum probably have the capacity to ride a unicycle, but have not learned how based on getting to their 'sweet spot' regarding their center of gravity, et al. Demonstrate capacity, and someone shows you how to do whatever, and boom, instant new animation in your set.
A more specific set of examples - juggling might be a skill picked up, but until you take the opportunity to show it off, it's just some skill you have. Hang out at the tavern, talk about it with the bartender, and you could attempt juggling cutlery, for example. On success, that's added to your list of 'performance' animations. Similarly, using slight of hand at a bar while playing a card game to distract or cheat or what have you might unlock a slight-of-hand type 'magic' trick, more prestidigitation than actual magic, but still just a nifty little thing to do while idle or performing with said skill for money.
mmm
the best thing i can think now that it is not already said here is the construction of a code of conduit and some stratification in the social life of the village, not only of the guilds.
not only RP in game, but RP in forums where the player can comment the decisions made by a mayor, the problems of a new wave of *insert plague name here*.
little by little, player that shows ability in roleplaying gains a list of benefits like elected as mayor, as a militia capitain. In this way (and i'm not sure if pratical) some parts of the game can be unlocked only by spending a lot of time roleplaying their PG
This is an article, I ripped off of Massively.Joystiq.com by Jeff Reahard. SWG had a beautiful set of tools for RPers and storytellers. It gave you so many options and truly allowed for you to GM an RP. I have seen people do wonders with this toolset; a truly beautiful system from a beautiful game. This article details and demonstrates the features of the system in a quick nutshell. I edited the article a little bit to make it forum-worthy.
Personally aside from this system, I would love to never again see a name floating above a player/non-player character who I have never known or been introduced too. It bugs the hell out of me, of course I understand that it might be a little extreme so if they could implement a system like (but in a pathfinder setting) I would be more then happy...
"Funnily enough, MMO story isn't a new concept. Dedicated MMO storytelling tools are quite rare, though, and the means to build story-related set pieces are rarer still.
Star Wars Galaxies - Storyteller
The Story Teller System:
The Storyteller system is basically a set of GM tools, much like those formerly used by SWG's live events team. You can spawn many of the static objects you see in the game, including all manner of vessels and vehicles, decorations, dwellings, and even NPCs. These NPCs can be given movement commands, they can be assigned levels and made attackable for players in your story group, and you can even give them items for your players to loot.
Storyteller boasts a huge number of options when it comes to props as well as persistent and one-time environmental effects, and players are limited solely by their imaginations when it comes to building unique sets and event staging areas.
All it takes is a little time, a quick read-through of the in-game help interface, and a few hundred thousand credits to create (or recreate) your favorite Star Wars-flavored scenes. If you're new to SWG and worried about the fact that I just said "a few hundred thousand credits" like it's nothing, don't sweat it.
You don't have to spend tons of money on Storyteller. Creative players can get a lot of mileage out of a couple of well-placed R2 units or an aerial dogfighting effect (both of which are available for cheap), and saving up enough coin to pimp out your dream set is a worthwhile newbie goal for those of you just getting into the game and looking for something to do apart from progression.
One caveat to keep in mind is that your grand designs will eventually disappear from the live game world (props and NPCs usually last up to 16 hours depending on where they're placed). Thankfully the blueprint feature allows you to save elaborate setups and re-deploy them on a moment's notice.
Yeah, the system really is that cool, and no, I don't have the foggiest idea why no one else in the MMO industry can code something like this.
A Man, A Fan, and A Plan
Anyway, a good story starts with a plan, and the plan for this article is to create a ragtag squadron headquarters facility. Being the good Rebel Alliance sympathizer that I am, it seems prudent to put my rogue squadron HQ in an out-of-the-way section of an out-of-the-way planet, and I've chosen an ideal spot on the backwater world of Dantooine (south by southwest from the Agro Outpost, if you're curious).
First, though, I need to visit an event promoter NPC. These guys are spread around the galaxy, usually in the back rooms of the hotels that dot all the major cities.
I traveled to the city of Moenia on Naboo to find one, but you can go to any major city you like and there will probably be an event NPC in the local hotel. From the Moenia starport, I headed southwest and found the right building, then clicked on the event promoter and settled down for a bit of menu-diving.
When it comes to figuring out the Storyteller system, patience is the order of the day. The options are broken down into seven major categories and it will take some time to see what all is on offer.
All of your purchased props, NPCs, and effects will show up as tokens in your inventory after you've handed over the requisite payment, so be sure you clear some bag space before heading to the event promoter.
It's also worth noting that you can pick up a Storyteller vendor token from the event promoter (under the Flavor NPC sub-menu), and this token is basically a mobile form of the event promoter NPC itself. I highly recommend grabbing two or three of these prior to leaving the event promoter's hotel (the tokens will set you back 19,000 credits each). You can deploy your Storyteller vendor token in the same location you're deploying your props, and it will save you a lot of travel time in case you don't know exactly which of the hundreds of items you'll need.
Speaking of deployment, once you've selected some interesting props and your vendor token(s) you'll need to select your virtual set. Storyteller props can be placed basically anywhere in the wilderness provided there's no mob lair spawns or points of interest (POIs) nearby. Props may also be placed in player cities assuming you're either the mayor or a citizen with build permissions.
Building a Set
So, it's back to Dantooine I go, and out to my remote wilderness location where I'll construct my starship base. First I had to do a bit of housekeeping since you can't walk 30 paces on Dantooine without coming across a quenker lair. Once I finished raining fiery hot Smuggler-powered death down on the local wildlife, I decided to start my base with a landing pad attached to one of my pre-existing houses. I threw down a couple of stage props (2,500 credits each) to make the base of my landing pad. I also forgot that props are initially placed relative to whatever direction your character is facing, so I had to make use of the Storyteller command line tools to move the first one into position.
Typing /storyteller in the game will bring up the system's help dialogue, and you'll find plenty of info on /storyObjectMove and /storyObjectRotate, both of which will become your friends in short order -- and yes you can make macros. Also be aware that you can hit the enter key followed by the up arrow to repeat your last text entry, and this will save you a ton of time when fine-tuning prop placement since you can control rotation through a full 360 degrees.
After I finished with my stage/landing pad, I threw down a couple of Incom T-65s (those are X-wings for you Star Wars newbs), a pair of generators and supply pallets, and even an astromech ready and waiting to be popped into the droid socket behind the starfighter cockpits.
Something was missing though, and after a few moments of head-scratching, I figured that it might be nice for my theoretical grease-monkeys to have a couple of industrial-strength work lamps, the better to light their way while they wrench on my starfighters all through the night.
Moving on, I placed a couple of Corellian freighters in the trench in front of my house, as well as a couple of shuttlecraft, a few swoop bikes, and a gaggle of NPCs milling around them. These included 24 Rebel troopers, six Rebel commandos and two officers, and six Wookiee commandos. Oh yeah, I also plopped down a couple of Rebel pilots (complete with those eye-catching orange flight suits) for the aforementioned X-wings.
Messing around with the placement commands is half of the fun here, and I spent a good while arranging things just so and generally having a ball by experimenting with stacked objects and figuring out the limits of the system. After I had it right, I purchased a blueprint token from the Storyteller vendor and saved the entire layout with the click of a button. When my props disappear over the next 12 hours, it'll be a simple matter of deploying another vendor, examining the saved blueprint as a sort of shopping list, and re-purchasing the tokens needed to re-deploy the scene. Once I've bought everything required, voila: Instant starbase!
The Final Tally
At the end of the day, I spent close to 500,000 in-game credits -- which is a paltry sum for anyone who has played SWG for more than a week -- and had hours of fun putting the thing together. Also, I didn't even touch on holoshroud costumes (basically one-hour buffs that allow you to look like any number of famous Star Wars creatures or characters), nor did I delve into setting up swoop races, using the jukebox feature, firing off environmental effects, or making NPCs and props attackable by players in a story group. In short, Storyteller is designed to keep creative types entertained for quite a while.
So that's SWG's Storyteller system in a nutshell..."
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ooh boy. This is a question I've been waiting for!
I think there are a few bare-bones things that really make or break roleplay in an MMO.
Cosmetic Appearances -- This is a big one for me (and a lot of RPers). The ability to look cool goes a long way for RPs and, let's be honest, most MMO players in general. It's nice to have the luxury of flipping quickly between several styles of dress without having to carry three distinct sets of equipment in your inventory.
Dyable Clothing -- Looking good is so much easier when you get to choose your signature colors! Please make clothing dyeable, or RPers like me will go daft hoarding every white item we can find, and so on and so forth.
Emotes -- Good ones, animated ones, and lots of them! This includes the ability to lie on beds, sit on chairs, lean on walls, etc. I also love the previously mentioned ideas of earnable skill-based emotes.
A Biography Option -- In-game bio features are a great way to suss out someone's writing style from a distance. It also shows that the person has put some care and thought into their character, and isn't just running around flagged for RP for the heck of it.
Player Housing -- Nothing thrills an RPer quite like making his own little mark on his digital world. The more customizable, the better (and that goes for all cases, really).
There are some features I've been dying to see in an MMO that aren't specifically RP-related as much as they are immersion-related. I would love, love to see a robust weather system that discouraged adventuring during storms and encouraged it during sunlight. Or constructable campsites that allow for quicker regeneration in the wilderness. There's also the concept of buffs and health/stamina regeneration bonuses in inns and taverns...basically more excuses for people to actually seek out social centers and, you know, socialize.
The deeper the world, the deeper the RP within it will be. I truly hope PO creates an environment that not only supports RP, but encourages it. RPers will always be in the minority, but PO is in the unique position to be able to cater to those minorities that have often gone overlooked in other MMOs. We RPers are a loyal bunch! We play a lot, and we play often, and we'll do any number of crazy things to get a particular housing item or armour piece. We usually have our hands in every aspect of the game, we're the ones who deeply appreciate the lore and storytelling woven into the game, and we'll stay with it long past its hayday.
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No cookie cutters! If I can build things then let me have modules similer to dwarven forge tiles or maybe like the timesplitters mapmaker, so I can design then build my house/mansion/castle/mine/dungeon/maze in a way that others won't recognize as "house version four with the bedroom on the left".
Race affects starting rep depending on location. If a guild of nothing but elves makes a town in the woods and keeps kobalds as slaves then my kobald char should have to dodge npcs until my rep with the guild goes up, which if a player talked to me and hired me for something then he can click on a postive or negative next to my name to affect my rep with the guild as npcs and other guildies can see that I've been liked or hated with the npcs (hired by the guild to come to town) reacting accordingly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... love to see a robust weather system that discouraged adventuring during storms and encouraged it during sunlight.
I would love to see this, and to see my character get soaked if he goes swimming, and drown if he goes swimming in metal armor.
It would be really neat to have my character's spirits respond to his environment, like getting down if he's out in the cold rain, or raising when he's sitting by a fire enjoying a hot meal.
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Goblin Squad Member
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MMOs are my only medium for roleplaying. I've never done any tabletop, and my forays in forum RP have been unsatisfying. So I'd absolutely love to see RP friendly systems given serious time and attention.
My suggestions are as follows, and many have already been touched upon:
Cosmetic Appearance - I'm definitely in favor of this, though I wonder how this will be taken into account with the heavy emphasis on PVP. In LotRO, cosmetic outfits are disabled in the Pv(M)P zones, so that classes may be recognized easily from a distance. If something similar is put into place, then I would highly encourage that time is spent to diversify the look of characters within a particular archetype. This means unique styles, colors, and material types for each armor type - not just recolors of the same armor over and over (*cough* Everquest 2 *cough*). Dyes are an absolute must - preferably with a system that can dye separate parts of a piece of armor (i.e. if a hat is mostly blue with yellow trim, both colors should be eligible for dying).
One possible suggestion to the PVP problem is to have a cosmetic item filter. If you turn the filter on, you get to see what folks are /actually/ wearing. I'm not sure how technically challenging this would be.
Equipment Display - This is somewhat of an extension of my first request, but I feel it deserves special attention. If I've equipped rings, I want to see them. Belts, earrings, necklaces - all of these accessories we wear ought to be visible. This may help add some diversity in appearance.
Player Housing - Pretty much covered. I want full control over my furniture placement, which I hope will be interactive (i.e. sit in chairs, open drawers, open/close windows, etc.). It'd be nice to get some building block pieces so we can try and create furniture of our own - this was how I made a lot of the things in my EQ2/SWG home.
Meaningful Reasons to Congregate - I see folks have mentioned entertainers from SWG. I'd love to see a similar system in place. I loved playing a doctor in SWG because people had to come back and visit me in town. It encouraged socializing with non-combat characters, and other more adventurous types who were also back in town to heal up.
My ultimate goal is to run a relatively small town with an inn. I want that inn to serve a gameplay purpose - and not just be a center for social RP. Give me buffs from musicians/dancers/storytellers, food/drink buffs, etc.
In Game Biography - Don't need much, just easily accessible space to put details about my character that I can't show on my avatar. I'm not looking for a space to put a character history - 500 words or less is sufficient for my purposes.
Two Person Emotes - I have always thought emotes were, for the most part, useless. They are hyperbolic representations of things normal people might do. and never require a reaction from another player. I think it'd be far more interesting to have more moderate, two-person emotes. Imagine two characters slow dancing, high-fiving, arm-wrestling, or play-fighting - I think these would be more useful than having characters get solo /dance or /flex or /flip emotes.
As far as how they could be implemented, if someone wanted to initiate a two-person emote with you, a dialog box could pop up asking for your consent. Folks who are afraid of being griefed with it could only allow people on their friends list to send them requests, or completely ignore all emote requests. It's a little clumsy, but I think it'd be a neat feature.
Fluff Magic/Skills - In Everquest, I used to turn my enchanter into a piece of copper, and watch people walk by and try and pick me up off the ground. No other class could do that - and that was okay. Fluff shouldn't be balanced evenly from class to class (like EQ2 weakly tried to do) - fluff should only be implemented in classes where it makes sense for them to have it.
I realize that resources are often better spent elsewhere, but no where have I seen as many cool RP-potential fluff skills as in the original Everquest. Definitely something to keep in mind.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Roleplaying, for people who want to roleplay, does not require mechanical benefits in the 'overcoming obstacles' portion of the game. If a behavior does provide benefits in the 'overcoming obstacles' portion of the game, it instantly becomes part of that game, and 'roleplaying' actions will now be classified by level of cost/benefit.
Allow roleplaying, by all means. But don't make roleplaying part of other styles of gameplay.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Meaningful Reasons to Congregate - I see folks have mentioned entertainers from SWG. I'd love to see a similar system in place. I loved playing a doctor in SWG because people had to come back and visit me in town. It encouraged socializing with non-combat characters, and other more adventurous types who were also back in town to heal up.
My ultimate goal is to run a relatively small town with an inn. I want that inn to serve a gameplay purpose - and not just be a center for social RP. Give me buffs from musicians/dancers/storytellers, food/drink buffs, etc.
I always thought they had the Rest XP thing totally backwards. Instead of giving you a slight buff over a long time if you log out in an inn, they ought to give you a fairly substantial buff for a fairly short time (2 hours) if you spend 15 minutes in a tavern or something. Part of this could encourage players to get up out of their chairs and stretch a little bit, or even walk around for a few minutes, but it could also encourage them to take a few more minutes beyond that to socialize with other players.
Of course, it should be RP-Friendly, in the sense that a Ranger who's more at home in the woods might not necessarily actually relax if he's in a fancy parlour...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Two Person Emotes
This is a really interesting idea, and I don't think it really requires anything very innovative.
There are a ton of emotes that behave slightly differently based on your target.
Also, one of the main tenets of RP is that you don't ever say what happened to the other person, you only say what you do and give the other person an opportunity to play out their own role. Applying that to this problem, it seems the obvious solution is to create emotes where, if both players are targeting each other, and doing compatible emotes, then the animations would sync up and maybe even do something special. One thing that jumps to mind is Swing Dancing, where one player actually picks up the other or throws them into the air, etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I must admit that while I am a fan of lots of options in protective and non-protective clothing. I am not a fan of "hide the cloak" or "hide the helm", or even the "make my armor look like this cosmetic set". I want to be able to judge the capabilities and intentions of another by their clothing. If someone looks like a thug, walks like a thug, and enters my shop in full armor sword/cudgel drawn...best be prepared for thuggery.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Coming back to SWG for a moment, one thing nobody's mentioned yet is Moods. (Mind you, I only played the game for a few months pre-CU... I hope they didn't get rid of them in the CU or NGE the way they got rid of everything else fun... but I digress.)
In SWG, you can set a Mood. There are about as many Moods as there are Emotes: Anything from Excited to Angry to Worried to Confused... there's a huge list of them.
Anyway, when you set a Mood, your character's face would change to match the mood (or as closely as could be managed with SWG's low-performance-but-sturdy graphics engine), and almost all of your characters emotes would change a bit, including chat messages (/say). So, if you changed moods to Angry, then most of your emotes would have altered text, usually something as simple as adding "angrily" to almost every verb. Most of the Moods were fairly one-dimensional, but it added an extra mechanic to conversations; one that isn't too hard to code, but really helps roleplay.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In SWG, you can set a Mood.
I don't have any idea why, but I kept reading that as a misspelling of "mod" right up to the end... weird.
Anyway, now that I understand what you're talking about, I totally agree. It would be really awesome to have your mood modify your emotes, so that if you /flex while /angry, you get a very threatening gesture, but if you /flex while /flirting, you get an entirely different result.
Lot of work to set that up well, though. But that reminds me, that's the kind of work that a wiki could really do well. I have no doubt there are quite a few people reading these forums who would love to do the grunt work of putting together a rough draft of this system and the interrelations of different moods and emotes.
Ryan, any chance you will allow community development of something like this? Just with respect to the data entry?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Speaking of emotes...the ability to add custom art assets was previously mention...I wonder if it would be possible to have a UI to allow access to the base character wireframe model(s) (with limits to keep movements within realistic tolerances)...and allow players to record and macro 3d movements. The devs could then not waste their time with emotes but allow players to make/trade their own.
As long as the movements are within the realm of realistic motion, there is no reason to police it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Speaking of emotes...the ability to add custom art assets was previously mention...I wonder if it would be possible to have a UI to allow access to the base character wireframe model(s) (with limits to keep movements within realistic tolerances)...and allow players to record and macro 3d movements. The devs could then not waste their time with emotes but allow players to make/trade their own.
As long as the movements are within the realm of realistic motion, there is no reason to police it.
Short of a few dozen variants of the middle finger, pelvic thrusts and tea-bags that would inevitably follow and become the main use of said feature. Quite a bit of policing would be necessary with that one I think.
Of course the general concept of such is pretty much a given in MMO's since the day chat was invented, so I suppose that would still fall into the report harrasment/abuse when it is used category
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Goblin Squad Member
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Speaking of emotes...the ability to add custom art assets was previously mention...I wonder if it would be possible to have a UI to allow access to the base character wireframe model(s) (with limits to keep movements within realistic tolerances)...and allow players to record and macro 3d movements. The devs could then not waste their time with emotes but allow players to make/trade their own.
As long as the movements are within the realm of realistic motion, there is no reason to police it.
Short of a few dozen variants of the middle finger, pelvic thrusts and tea-bags that would inevitably follow and become the main use of said feature. Quite a bit of policing would be necessary with that one I think.
Of course the general concept of such is pretty much a given in MMO's since the day chat was invented, so I suppose that would still fall into the report harrasment/abuse when it is used category
I thought about that, but then I considered the fact that all of that can currently be done verbally in any game. I know me and the type of people I surround myself with would not bother with that type of thing...but even that use has precedence in the world, think Scottish Haka.
I would love to see whole units taunting each other from across a battlefield.
I'd just like to point out one complaint of RPers - that an MMO discourages RP creatively and imaginatively by giving you mechanics to base it on as opposed to a table-top game where it's all about using your imagination.
As such, I don't see the need for half of what has been said in this thread. It'd be nice, but I don't want development time that would be more efficiently spent elsewhere put into it, at least not for the initial release.
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I'd just like to point out one complaint of RPers - that an MMO discourages RP creatively and imaginatively by giving you mechanics to base it on as opposed to a table-top game where it's all about using your imagination.
As such, I don't see the need for half of what has been said in this thread. It'd be nice, but I don't want development time that would be more efficiently spent elsewhere put into it, at least not for the initial release.
The problem with computors is that you can only do what the program allows you to. Somethings can be done around like typeing in chat that your angry but that is not the same as seeing your char actually act that out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd just like to point out one complaint of RPers - that an MMO discourages RP creatively and imaginatively by giving you mechanics to base it on as opposed to a table-top game where it's all about using your imagination.
As such, I don't see the need for half of what has been said in this thread. It'd be nice, but I don't want development time that would be more efficiently spent elsewhere put into it, at least not for the initial release.
I understand your point, but we might as well RP in an ICQ chatroom if they aren't going to support any RP-friendly features. I agree completely that an RPer must abandon the structure of the RP medium at time (in this case, the MMO) to have a more effective RP experience, but that shouldn't excuse a lack of development support for features that are purely for RP purposes. I want to use my imagination to complement the game world and its features...not completely overwrite it.
Do I want pretty clothes and hundreds of furniture options before they have a solid combat system? No. But I won't play a game that refuses to support my RP playstyle, and that begins with stuff like this.
I'm not exactly sure what the developers here think of RPers, but just /once/ I'd like to see a game that's exclusively developed for the RP community. At the very least, I hope that we're always kept in mind during the development process. I don't mean to summon the tiny violin, but I think there are plenty of games on the market that more or less ignore the RP folks - might as well try making us a part of that 'niche' the devs are hoping to secure.
I'll concede that if the developers were to try and implement every whim from the RP community, very little gameplay content would ever get added - but PO sounds like an MMO that's attempting to set forth in a new direction. We are the content, and we need to be given the tools to make that content enjoyable.