Improving rods in PFS


Pathfinder Society

2/5

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Just wondered, as you can increase some magic items (e.g., cloak of resistance from +1 to +2, flaming to flaming burst), can you improve a lesser metamagic rod to a normal metamagic rod, or do you need to buy a new one?

2/5

Anything official on this, would be great - thanks.


I am pretty sure the rule is that as long as the better version exists in a legally allowed source book and the item itself is legal, that you can pay the difference so long as you have the Fame to cover the actual value of the better item. The precedent was set for this when the folks in charge posted in the past that you can do this with belts and circlets and such.

5/5

I don't think metamagic rods can be upgraded.

Pathfinder FAQ wrote:
Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

Since metamagic rods are called "lesser" or "greater", they don't fall into the "+X" category and aren't eligible for upgrades.

I also think that you aren't able to upgrade flaming to flaming burst, as it is also a "named" bonus. You could upgrade a +1 flaming sword to a +2 flaming sword though.

This is why it's important, especially in Pathfinder Society play, to plan where you want your magic items to end up, and build them accordingly. There's nothing worse than buying a +1 shocking keen longsword, and then realize that you should have had it made from mithril.

Link to FAQ.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Belts and other similar items can be upgrades because their name includes the "+x" qualifier. However, rods do not follow that naming convention and therefore are not eligible for direct upgrade.

It is also important to note that the bonus being added is not the determining factor, it is the item that matters. So a Frost Brand which is a "named" magic item, cannot be upgraded from Frost to Icy Burst. However, a standard, call it generic, weapon can be upgraded by paying the price difference between Frost and Icy Burst.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
However, a standard, call it generic, weapon can be upgraded by paying the price difference between Frost and Icy Burst.

I agree with the rest of your post, but this seems a little odd. Is there a citation for this type of upgrade?

Frost -> Icy Burst
Flaming -> Flaming Burst
Shock -> Shocking Burst

Are there any others that would be covered?


I believe the concept comes from the fact that the ability description in the CRB directly states that 'An icy burst weapon functions as a frost weapon that also...'. This leads to the logic that an icy burst weapon is merely a frost weapon with the extra crit damage added on. Hence the upgrade from frost to icy burst.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

The rules state that you cannot upgrade a "named" item. It does not say you cannot upgrade an item with a bonus that has a name.

You buy a masterwork sword...fine (not a named item)
You pay to have it enchanted...fine (not a named item)
You pay to add Flaming...fine (not a named item)
You pay to add Flaming Burst...fine (still not a named item)

There is nothing in the rules/FAQ that prevent this build progress, IMO. Remember that Flaming is a +1 equivalent enhancement and the burst version is a +2. The equivalency should allow for the upgrade. The rule refers to "+1 item" and "+2 item," not an item with a +1/+2 enhancement.

You buy a Frost Brand. That is fine, but it IS a named item and therefore not eligible to be upgraded/modified.

I think this might be another case of reading too much into the rules and trying to find something between the lines that's not there.

Callarek wrote:
Are there any others that would be covered?

The APG added Corrosive/Burst to the list. A cursory review of the CRB/APG, I don't see any other enhancements that this would apply to.

*

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Quite a few people missing a technicality here, I think, although the answer still appears to be "no." Quote with applicable highlights:

Pathfinder FAQ wrote:
Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

Rods seem to be none of these things, so much of this FAQ is inapplicable to rods. They definitely aren't armor or weapons, and they aren't wondrous items.

The question is whether rods are "named magic items". I think the answer is probably no, in this context, although others might disagree.

Therefore, the general rule permitting upgrades would apply, but unfortunately that isn't written in a way to apply easily to rods.

So I say, "unclear, unaddressed in the rules." And therefore not permitted.

2/5

Bump, as I really would like an official answer on his one, thanks, Pete

Shadow Lodge 1/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

What about wonderous items that aree Type #, such as Ring of Spell Knowledge, Pearls of Power, or Bags of Holding?

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