Howdy,
A few weeks ago I rolled up an alchemist and am now wanting to try out poisons for some extra oomph. I looked up the poison rules and was almost completely baffled. How can the most common affliction have the blurriest set of rules in the book? Well anyway, this is my attempt of making sense of it with help from d20pfsrd.com's explanation on poisons.
Please look over this and let me know if I've made any mistakes. If I have I will quickly correct them and repost the revised chart.
Isn't it not the case that each new dose of poison increases the DC by +2? I'm not sure if that is addressed.
Poison is a rather inelegant mechanic isn't it?
Eragar, as far as published poisons, I don't believe there is one that needs three consecutive saves. However I may add an asterick in there to explain what happens with a poison with more than 2 saves.
Jen, new doses do increase the DC by +2. This is in the chart under "Is the Defender currently affected by the same poison?" section.
Shifty, it is unweildy as all get out. The part that is really disappointing is that, after all the figuring out how they work, they still all kind of suck in one way or another.
You appear to have an unnecessary extra step there: After you make a successful save to resist, you don't make another save to cure. The save to resist is the save to cure.
Ah, thanks Dave.
That one has had me puzzled as I couldn't find any notation of how it worked exactly. Turns out checking the references of the things I'm referencing is a good idea:
"A successful save, after the first, prevents the effect that round, checks vs the cure, and continues the tracking through the frequency." - Jason Bulmahn Lead Designer Source
I'll make the neccesary changes tonight an post the updated chart tommorow. Thanks again for the help :D
Nicely done!
Next to what Dave mentioned I only noticed 1 little error. You forgot the "Yes" between "Does the poison require 2 saves to be cured?" and "Did the Defender succeed the save to be cured on the last round?".
Nice flow chart but it surprises me somewhat.
I use poison frequently in my games (and experience has proven that it is quite deadly) and have played Pathfinder since it was released and my players and I have never really had any issues.
The only time I remember having any sort of challenge was the first time multiple doses of the same poison were involved but after a few minutes of consulting the CRB it was all sorted.
Incidentally this was a result multiple attacks from giant spiders.
In any event, that is a nice flow chart which I can respect (I deal with process development and governance for a living). Nice work.
I've tried to incorporate the possibility of a poison needing 2 or more cure saves, although wording came out a little forced:
Poison Flow Chart ver.91
"Has the Defender consecutively succeeded a number of cure saves equal to the poison’s requirement? "
I really hope that makes sense, what do you guys think?
Ha Halifax, you right poisons aren't all that complicated. I think I'm just a heavy visual learner and I process this stuff much easier in chart form. I've only made a few of these charts and it's good to know that I'm getting it somewhat right :p, ty.
Three-save poisons DO exist. :D
TARN LINNORM
Poison (Su) Bite—injury; save Fort DC 32; frequency 1/round for 10 rounds; effect 6d6 acid damage and 1d8 Con drain; cure 3 consecutive saves. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Ah ha, the fact that there are poisons other than the sample ones for purchase and crafting went right over my head.
Turns out that Pit Fiends and Purple Worms both have 3 save poisons as well. No doubt there are others.
Good Call.
Very helpful! A similar one of these for disease might be a good idea, although it wouldn't be terribly different. It would be lovely if more processes were explained in decision charts like this in the core rulebook and other sources.
Interesting... the presence of an Onset time on an affliction adds a save to completely negate the affliction, separate from the saves to avoid the stat damage / cure the affliction, one more of those new things in pathfinder. Kinda takes diseases [and non injury poisons] down a peg.
Onset:... The affliction's effect does not occur until after the onset period has elapsed and then only if further saving throws are failed.
I've tried to incorporate the possibility of a poison needing 2 or more cure saves, although wording came out a little forced:
Poison Flow Chart ver.91"Has the Defender consecutively succeeded a number of cure saves equal to the poison’s requirement? "
I really hope that makes sense, what do you guys think?
Very nice!
One last thing I noticed: Shouldn't "per pre-existing dose" be added at the end of "Defender makes a save vs the poison's DC +2"?