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3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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One wrinkle that recently came up in one of our games. What is the encumbrance while flying of a creature who is technically a quadruped, such as a dragon, but can fly?
In the encumbrance section of the PRD:
Quote: Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature's Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small ×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24. So normally a creature like a dragon, who is a quadruped would have an increase in their encumbrance factor. However one would think that this is assuming creatures walking on the ground where all four limbs are able to distribute the weight more evenly, thus increasing the carrying capacity.
However, when a creature is in flight, typically they only have two wings and in a sense are "biped" at that point in regard to their encumbrance.
I've been hunting around to see if there is any RAW clarification, but so far I haven't found any.
In a home game this isn't that big of a deal, the GM just makes a ruling, but this is coming up in a PFS context, in which there is an endless demand for RAW. By gamist/RAW viewpoint the creature is a quadruped and in a video game like fashion it just gets it's encumbrance boost, but when looked at in a more simulationist/RAI viewpoint you're looking at the creature typically being biped as soon as they lift off the ground.
Is there perhaps an official clarification? For in RAW we trust.
Encumbrance is encumbrance, whether you walk, fly, crawl, or swim. IF they're at medium encumbrance or higher the speed gets reduced appropriately. If I recall correctly, it used to be the rule that fliers can't fly if they're above medium or light encumbrance.
LazarX wrote: Encumbrance is encumbrance, whether you walk, fly, crawl, or swim. IF they're at medium encumbrance or higher the speed gets reduced appropriately. If I recall correctly, it used to be the rule that fliers can't fly if they're above medium or light encumbrance. The thing though is that the creatures encumbrance depends on if they are biped or quadruped. It could be argued that a quadruped on the ground would have a different light load compared to one that is aloft because they no longer are getting the benefit of its two extra legs.
The big issue is table variance at a PFS game. One GM might not blink an eye at the issue, while another will call out that being a quadruped won't help encumbrance if, say an mounted quadruped Eidolon with wings leaves the ground, which might end up pushing the light load factor down enough that the Eidolon can't be a flying mount.
It's RAW. That's just how it was written. The good thing about PFS is that they have to strictly by RAW, yeah?
Besides, it would be kinda mean to gimp you of a major ability because of their personal interpretation. If there is an issue though, try muleback cords.
Oddly enough, the Core Rulebooks are silent on the Fly Skill and encumbrance. I even went into the Bestiary to see if it was in there in the "flight" ability description. Nada.
The only RAW reference I could find was the Fly spell, which says you can go up to your maximum weight limit while flying.
Pathfinder seems to treat encumbrance solely by the strength score, whether you are flying or on the ground, quadruped or biped.
In the air, a dragon is still a quadruped and still has it's STR score. Although RAI stands to reason that it probably can't carry it's quad weight while flying. Perhaps in flight, treat as biped, and on the ground, quadruped? That seems fair. Sorry I couldn't dig up more RAW.
What if the dragon has 4 wings?
Well, an African dragon, maybe.
[/montypython]
Quadraped, Biped, etc. refers to the build of a creature. The build doesn't change because of how it's using it's limbs at any given time. A Horse for example can rear up and strike with it's front hooves. But that doesn't make it a biped, even for those short moments. Quadrapeds are more massive than biped creatures of the same size and have more massive muscles as well. That is where there encumbrance capacity vs bipeds comes from.... the entire build of the creature, not just it's number of legs.
DeathSpot wrote: Well, an African dragon, maybe.
[/montypython]
Are African Dragons migratory?
Talonhawke wrote: DeathSpot wrote: Well, an African dragon, maybe.
[/montypython]
Are African Dragons migratory? Of course, just not in the normal sense. They tend to shift between planes, looking for a nice warm beach to lie on. Actually, come to think of it, 'nomadic' might be a better term, huh?
LazarX wrote: Quadraped, Biped, etc. refers to the build of a creature. The build doesn't change because of how it's using it's limbs at any given time. A Horse for example can rear up and strike with it's front hooves. But that doesn't make it a biped, even for those short moments. Quadrapeds are more massive than biped creatures of the same size and have more massive muscles as well. That is where there encumbrance capacity vs bipeds comes from.... the entire build of the creature, not just it's number of legs. This. Just because a dragon is flying does not make it a "biped" since PED means "foot". Unless, like Optimus Prime's trailer, two of the feet magically disappear in a bag of holding during flight. It could happen.
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