Burglary and other fine hobbies, but how do I DM them?

[Zasien]

I have trouble DMing my party's rogue's burgles. I seem to always make it either too easy or too tough. Anyone here have any suggestions of how to DM thievery more effectively?

[Richard Leonhart]

that's life for a thief, sometimes there are so many guards that they all think they can sleep, sometimes there is one, but he was the greatest hero of his nation back in the days and they called him the all-seeying-eye.

Just make sure you don't make a solo-adventure when there are other players on the board. Also even a good theft has consequences if it's high profile, scrying can make life hard.

All in all, look that he doesn't earn more gold than other players with their professions, except of course if it's handled like an adventure and the other players are in on it.

[Doggan]

Zasien wrote:

I have trouble DMing my party's rogue's burgles. I seem to always make it either too easy or too tough. Anyone here have any suggestions of how to DM thievery more effectively?

I've had a few players who were burglars of random sorts. I'd generally have them pick out the area they were robbing in, then make a hidden roll on a home made chart. The result of the roll ended up being how hard/easy their burgling would be. Now, of course, those easy burgles could always end up hard. Some failed stealth rolls, breaking things by mistake. Walking through the wrong door, or stepping on a dog/cat. There's any number of things that can go wrong. Just mix it up from time to time, and if you use mats/maps/grids/whatever, prepare four or five different houses at once.

[Helaman]

Zasien wrote:

I have trouble DMing my party's rogue's burgles. I seem to always make it either too easy or too tough. Anyone here have any suggestions of how to DM thievery more effectively?

Buggered if I can find it online atm but there was a blog/gaming site that had Heist mechanics...

Make up a clock face... hard line at the quarter past and half past marks and then hard lines every hour til midnight.

This is your event clock... assume that the event has 9 to 12 components.

Assuming the players dont screw up on 1 or 2 o'clock on the event clock, there are no checks for "complications". At a quarter past, make a single check for complications... again no checks at 4 and 5 and then from 6 onwards a check every event. If the characters finish early - critical success or less than 12 events, then the end result doesn't occur. Go beyond midnight and something goes badly badly wrong or you run out of time etc.

Each hardline on the clock gives a 1 in 6 chance of a complication. Call this the "Trouble Meter".

So at half past (ie half way through the event), a one or two will result in a complication.

By a quarter to 12, its a 5 in 6 chance.

From 10 onwards its gonna be non stop stuff hitting the fan.

If you want to be fairer then a D8 or even D12 can be used but you want dramatic tension of the plan falling apart.

Things that impact the chance of trouble and complications?
+1 unnatural noise
+1 Items left lying around
+2 person mission
+3 sounds of fighting
+3 Spotted
+4 Assault or obvious crime witnessed.

Complications? Here are the 6 provided but you can do more if you want and use a larger die.

1) Extra person(s)
2) Extra obstacle
3) Obstacle harder
4) Timing wrong
5) Person wrong
6) Obstacle wrong

How does this work? Lets set up a burglary with 10 events... leaving some slack before midnight (or endgame).

So if we skill challenge this out... rogue makes 2 skill challenges climbing to the second story and sneaking in the room. at the "three" mark he fails a stealth check and makes an unnatural noise... Its now three so the GM rolls for complications and adds one for the noise... but as a 1 or 2 isn't rolled, things proceed according to plan.

Skill challenges occur at 4 and 5 on the timer... no issues. He makes the checks.

At 6, the rogue passes the next skill challenge BUT as its 6 and a hard line, the DM makes another check for complications... with a 1,2 or 3 resulting in a problem (2 for the 2nd hard line and 1 for the unnatural noise earlier). GM rolls a 4 and all is well.

Now from 7 to the end of the event every challenge adds 1 to the chance of complications.

Lets say after completing the skill challenge for the 7th part, the DM rolls a complication - lets call it a harder obstacle.

So our rogue rocks up to the safe at 8 oclock on the event clock and finds the padlock is in fact a masterwork one.... cursing, he finds that he needs to take 20 to get past it.

GM rules that this chews ANOTHER of the lines (takes it to 9pm on the clock)... and one closer to "midnight".

There is a 5 in 6 chance of a complication now... and sure enough the GM rolls it.

Extra persons comes up... He has delayed to when the premises has extra staff on for changing the guard... but he has the lock open and can grab the stuff in the safe at least.

Skill challenge is made at 10 o'clock on the event clock. Call it a stealth roll... Passed but now there is 6 in 6 (ie automatic) chance of complication.

GM could roll again but decides that he will choose instead and extra obstacle... meaning instead of one check to get out (11 on the clock), there is now TWO (meaning that the rogue is gonna have to skin of his teeth it). In this case the plan called for a disguise to get out with the loot through the front door. Normally one was needed, but with all the extra guards, the GM asks for a disguise AND a bluff check.

At 11 on the clock the rogue changes into his stolen guard outfit and strolls past some guards, giving them a nonchalant nod as he passes.

GM decides to roll again for complication and gets obstacle wrong.

Crap - the guards are checking people for paperwork at the front door!

Thinking fast the Rogue knows he doesn't have papers and his bluff skills may not get him through. At 12 on the clock the GM rules that he can make an escape artist check to squeeze through some bars on the old portcullis, or maybe try a sleight of hand to boost another guards papers.

He bumps into a "fellow" guard and tries his luck.

Success!

Exiting the building and strolling down the street and mingling with the crowd, the rogue hears alarms break out in the building he just exited but he should be safe now.

[Thanael]

Check out the following threads on enworld:
Looking for fleshed out Mansion
Solo adventures

Quote:

Thievery 101: Joining the Watchers and Thievery 101: The Periapt of Famidon are linked solo modules for a beginning Rogue that require him rob a mansion iirc.

The free pdf A thief among us is included in the second adventure above.

One on One Adventures Compendium (PFRPG) is already out. It includes serveral different solo adventures, but built for different character types (i.e. for a rogue 5-7 or a paladin 3-5). Not sure if you could string together a campaign for a single player from all of it though some of the adventures could sure be strung together.

Oh and don't forget to throw in a curveball sometimes. Maybe another Burglar has chosen the same target, or the local thieves guild has been alerted to the freelancer and tries to trick/catch/betray him to the watch.

If the PCs are not always on the move definately flesh out the local thieves guild(s) and think about their reactions. Also of course the Local Law enforcement and/or previous targets might want a piece of the PC too. Think about what a robbed one that is or goes to a wizard could do to the rogue...

[Thanael]

Helaman wrote:

Buggered if I can find it online atm but there was a blog/gaming site that had Heist mechanics...

Know it, but can't find it either...

Might be this: Heist clock

Similar/more:
Heists and Haunted Houses
Plotting made easy: The Complication worksheet
ars ludi: Bad Trap Syndrome
Things You Might Want To Know When Planning a Heist
Intelligent Design, Evolution, and The Heist
Pull a heist in 4 easy steps

[Helaman]

Thanael wrote:

Know it, but can't find it either...

Might be this: Heist clock

Not that one.

[Marus]

Dot.

[Thanael]

Helaman wrote:

Thanael wrote:

Know it, but can't find it either...

Might be this: Heist clock

Not that one.

Finally found it: Telecanter's Receding Rules: The Heist, The Con, The Special Mission

It was originally mentioned in this thread: Potential game mechanic for those inspired by The Worldwound Gambit

[gigglestick]

Unless its a simple snatch and grab, I've always tried to arrange big burglaries like an Ocean's 11 scenario: Let the mage arrange some magical assistance, the bard and cleric can act as distractions, ahve the heavies around for backup and muscle, and a lot of non-rogue classes have admirable stealth skills (in the Absalom/River Kingdoms game I gm, the Gnome Rogue normally takes the Kobold Ranger with her as backup, the Halfelf Sorceress normally Buffs them a little, the Human Cleric of Shelyn hangs back to heal and sometimes act as distraction, and the HalfOgre College Fighter [from the old Campaign Guide] waits in the wings to pull off a rescue if necessary.) They do this about once every other adventure...

Basically, if this becomes a common occurance, that your rogue heads off on long burglaries, you can arrange for magic items that provide other characters with enough stealth to follow along and help...

At the end of the game, as long as everyone is having fun....

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

I just want to say this thread is probably the most useful thing I've stumbled across in weeks. I will be using lots of the advice here to not just plan Heist Adventures, but a couple of Mutants and Masterminds adventures too.