So, after some serious thinking, I decided to rewrite my Friar archetype in a much simpler way, starting from the Tome of Secrets Priest class instead of the Cleric (as suggested by Cheapy). I'd like to continue here also the discussion on vows for Clerics (or Priestly vows) that I started.
The friar (female: nun) is a charismatic pacifist, member of a preaching or beggar order, interested in converting enemies and help the faithful with prayer and example rather than being closed in a cloister to study ancient books. Priests without a deity can be friars, but followers of militant and warmonger faiths aren't suited for the archetype.
Most friars and nuns usually take one or more priestly vows, depending on their alignment, deity and order (see below).
Class Skills: The friar adds Perform (oratory or singing) to his class skills.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The friar is proficient with the following weapons: club, heavy mace, light mace, quarterstaff, and sling.
Domains: The friar receives three domains at 1st level. At least one must be chosen from the list of Favored domains, even if his deity normally doesn't grant it. He can't choose Forbidden domains. This replaces the usual priest's choice of domains.
Forbidden Domains: Destruction, Strength, War.
Favored Domains: Charm, Community, Healing, Knowledge, Magic, Peace (new domain), Protection, Travel.
Divine Jester: The friar gains the bardic performance ability at 1st level. His priest levels stack with levels in any other class granting this ability to determinate his effective bard level. This ability is similar in all respects to bardic performance as used by a bard of the same level (including interactions with feats, spells, and prestige classes), using Perform (oratory or singing) as the friar’s performance skill. However, a friar gains only the following types of bardic performance: fascinate at 1st level; inspire competence at 3rd level; suggestion at 6th level; soothing performance at 12th level; and mass suggestion at 18th level. This replaces Lore.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon: The friar receives this ability at 1st level like a monk. This replaces weapon proficiency.
Peace Domain
You presence calms violent and barbaric instincts, and your touch brings harmony and negates conflicts.
Granted Powers:
Touch of Peace (Su): With a touch, you negate fear and rage effects in a creature. You can lift all spell effects which rely on negative emotions, like fear and rage, or similar effects, like dragon fear or barbarian rage. The creature can immediately try a saving throw against its current condition, or a Will save to resist the touch if he doesn't want to end it. If you fail a save against such an effect, you can use this ability as an immediate action to grant yourself an additional save. Once the target (either you or a touched creature) has made one additional save per effect, this ability has no further effect on that particular fear or rage effect. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
(Notes: Similar to Honor Bound of the Honor Subdomain, works against fewer effects but affects no-save effects too: it's similar to Unbreakable Heart or Calm Emotions, but with permanent effects and only one target; so I think it's balanced).
Nonviolence Aura (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of nonviolence as a standard action. All creatures in this aura must abstain from attacks and violent actions until they leave the area. The creatures are allowed a saving throw on Will to avoid this effect This ability can be used for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
(Notes: Similar to other aura powers, affects allies as well as enemies).
Domain Spells: 1st- sanctuary, 2nd- calm emotions, 3rd- good hopes, 4th- stay the hand, 5th- interposing hand, 6th- fool's forbiddance, 7th- joyful rapture, 8th- euphoric tranquility, 9th- overwhelming presence.
Subdomains:
Submission
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the touch of peace power of the peace domain.
Pronouncement of Surrender (Su): You can declare a pronouncement of surrender, discouraging deeply a creature for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your cleric level. The creature suffers a -2 morale penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, AC and saving throws. You can use this power for a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier. This is a mind-affecting, language-dependent ability.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd- miserable pity, 3rd- crushing despair, 4th- terrible remorse.
Compassion
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the touch of peace power of the peace domain.
Noble Negotiator (Sp): You speak with great authority, forcing all others to listen to you and consider carefully your proposals. You gain a bonus on all Diplomacy checks equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1). Moreover, when you use the enhanced diplomacy orison, you obtain an additional +4 bonus instead of +2.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd- compassionate ally, 4th- forced repentance, 8th- crown of glory.
Priestly Vows
The concept of a pacifist priest gets along marvellously with monk vows- after all, the historic Western friars and monks, who were the most eminent pacifist priests, took the normal three vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. So why not extend the possibility of make vows to divine spellcasters too- maybe for more spells a day, improved channeling or possibility to choose a few spells from other lists? Many sources give good ideas: paladin oaths, monk vows, the vow heroic feats from the Book of Exalted Deeds, and the articles on the Kobold Quarterly blog regarding the poverty vow. I'd like to create a vow system for divine spellcasters on these basis, and I'd appreciate a little help from my friends^^
A first raw list of possible vows:
Vow of Abstemiousness- Moderate: abstain from alcoholic drinks, drugs etc. Severe: abstain from meat and possibly other impure food, fasting etc.
Vow of Chastity- Moderate: the character must abstain from sex and romantic relationships (see the paladin oath of the same name). Severe: see the monk vow of the same name.
Vow of Nonviolence- You must not kill an helpless enemy. You can't inflict lethal damage, or if you do you must cure the enemy you wounded immediately after the fight, before curing yourself and your friends. You always must give an opponent the chance of surrender or avoid the fight. You must not abide violence be committed before your eyes.
Vow of Obedience- Never disobey an order of the superiors, even if this means loss of advantages for you or the party, renounce to a precious item, separating from your friends/lovers etc.
Vow of Peace- Moderate: you can't wear any armor and must limit to one simple weapon. You can't attack except for defense. You receive bonus on defensive maneuvers & spells, etc. Severe: THOU SHALT NOT ATTACK (you can cast spells only defensively, you mustn't use any weapon or harm anyone).
Vow of Poverty- Moderate: the character can't wear precious items or jewels, and must donate most of her wealth to the poors or to her order. She can't actually possess things, but everything she has is from the order, as a loan, and the order can ask it back at any time. Severe: this should be more like the monk vow of poverty than the Book of Exalted Deeds one.
Vow of Segregation- maybe only for NPCs^^ You can't see, touch or talk directly to someone who's not a member od your order; you can never get out of your monastery.
Vow of Silence- Moderate: silence at certain times of the day or in certain circumstances. Severe: never speak a word, except for praying or casting spells.
Vow of Suffering- A Flagellant gains boons wearing a cilice or wounding herself with a scourge.
More ideas are welcome, along with comments on what the benefits of a vow should be, along with the penalties for breaking it. Every vow should be Renovable or Perpetual, and most should foresee the possibility of a temporary or permanent Dispensation (at a price, of course!)
One last thing: I'd like to use the monk/cleric archetype suggested by DumberOx in the other thread, naming it Lay Brother/Sister. DumberOx, if you read this, I'd like to have you in this discussion too, and I segnaled your archetype in the Multiclass Archetypes thread.
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3 Domains + Bardic music? That's a little too good for a support class, especially one giving us less than the already-powerful Evangalist. They need severe limits on spells etc to pull off all of that and be balanced.
Do you really think granting a bonus to hit and damage (Bardic music) is really in flavor of a peaceful archetype?
Why would this guy go adventuring? Is he OK that his friends loot/kill?
It would be too powerful if it was a Cleric. That's the reason why I rewrote it as a Priest (see the link). Bardic music doesn't give combat bonuses as the only performances that the friar gains are charming/healing ones.
Priestly Vows
Any divine spellcaster can take a Priestly Vow, though they're more common for priests, friars and clerics (paladins prefer swearing their Oaths). Sometimes lay members of priestly orders can take a Priestly Vow, but this is rarer. Much rarer is a non-divine character or a commoner taking a vow, but some are known to do it in penance for their sins, expecially the Vow of Chastity or the Vow of Suffering.
Vows can be Permanent or Renovable. Renovable Vows are taken only for a certain time, everywhere between a few days and some years.
Taking a Vow can be an official, public declaration made with a solemn ceremony, or a private, secret thing between the worshiper and his deity. However, only a clergy member can give atonement for a broken Vow, release the personfrom a Permanent Vow or give her a temporary Dispensation. When someone asks to be released from a Permanent Vow, she must pay the price (a monetary donation or a penalty equal to the benefit previously afforded from the vow for a certain time- a week or a month). When the worshiper asks a temporary Dispensation from her Vow (like a cleric who asks to interrupt his Vow of Nonviolence to take a sword against a cruel murderer), she must accept a penalty equal to 1/2 the bonus afforded, for all the time of her Dispensation. Releases and Dispensations can be granted just in very special cases, with the permission of the deity (and sometimes the permission of the head of the church).
Many Vows have two degrees: moderate and severe. The severe form gives much more benefits, but at a price sometimes too great for PCs, and so are for the most part limited to NPCs.
Errata:
Many Vows have more than a degree- Moderate vows give a little benefit for a moderate renounce, and some can be taken by lay worshipers too. Severe vows are for clergy members only, and give some bonus spells to add to your list. Extreme vows give huge benefits but at a great price, and are most often taken by NPCs. Bonuses are cumulative (a character taking an Extreme vow gains the benefits of the Moderate and Severe degrees in addition to the benefits of the Extreme form).
Vow of Chastity
Moderate- Virginity:You pledge not to indulge in any kind of sexual and romantic activity. You gain a +4 sacred bonus on saves against charm effects and figments.
Severe- Purity: In addition to abstaining from all sexual and intimate physical activity, you can't stay near a person of the opposite sex (less than 10 feet of distance), nor allow a person of the opposite sex touch you, even to heal your wounds. Striking enemies in battle or being struck by enemies is not prohibited, but you must purify your body immediately after the fight. You may add an enchantment/charm spell from any list to your list of spells for every 5 levels in a class of divine caster you possess. This spell must be of a level you may cast.
Extreme- Seclusion: You may not go out of your monastery (or leave your hermitage) nor talk to, touch or see directly anyone who's not a member of your order and of the same sex. As long as you stay in your monastery, all your divination spells and channeling powers are maximized without level penalties.
Vow of Obedience
Moderate- Obedience: You pledge to obey any superior figure in your church. You can never disobey an order of the superiors, even if this means loss of advantages for you or the party, renounce to a precious item, separating from your friends/lovers etc. You may lay on hands on yourself to cure up to your current level in hit point each day, once per day.
Severe/Extreme- Self-negation: Most good and neutral faiths won't ask their clergy members to obey self-destructive or unreasonable orders. If some PC or NPC wants to play such a self-humiliating vow, the lay on hands power can be enhanced to a paladin's potency.
Special- If a superior issues an unreasonable or cruel order, or an order beyond his power to ask or against the tenets of the faith, disobeying may not mean breaking the vow. In fact, a virtuous priest may be REQUESTED to disobey in such cases (GM's discretion).
[b]Vow of Poverty[/i]
This vow is taken most often by priests, friars and divine channelers, as a form of protest against a material-bound society and a sign of solidariety with poor and destitute people.
Moderate- Sobriety: You pledge not to own very much property. You cannot keep more than 50 gp per level with you at any given time in coin and nonmagical gear and items. You cannot wear jewelry (except holy items, symbols of status and/or wedding rings), and you cannot own more than one magic item for every two levels, not counting potions and scrolls (although you can have only one of those items per level as well). Only one of this items can be a weapon. Magic and precious items are considered a loan from your order, which may ask them back anytime. You must monthly tithe part of your gained treasure (usually 10%) too your order or to the poor. For as long as you keep your vow, you gain an insight bonus equal to half your level (maximum +10) to Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks.
Severe- Beggary: You may never own more than six possessions—a simple set of clothing, a pair of sandals or shoes, a bowl, a sack, a blanket, and any one other item (usally a simple weapon). Five of these items must be of plain and simple make, though one can be of some value (often an heirloom of great personal significance to the monk). You can never keep more money or wealth on your person than you need to feed, bathe, and shelter yourself for 1 week in modest accommodations. You must beg for your money, and you can't carry other money with you. You cannot borrow or carry wealth or items worth more than 50 gp that belong to others. You are allowed to accept and use curative potions (or similar magical items where the item is consumed and is valueless thereafter) from other creatures. You can add a conjuration/creation spell from any list to your list of spells for every 2 levels in a class of divine caster you possess. This spell must be of a level you may cast.
Extreme- Mendicity:You can't carry any money with you and must beg for your food and clothes. You can't eat food or wear clothes you have not begged for. You must sleep on the nude earth or on the floor, without blankets or pillows- you're allowed to sleep on straw if you find some. You must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a spell component pouch. You may not use any magic item of any sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your behalf--you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebony fly. You may not, however, "borrow" a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion for even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a scroll, wand, or staff. You may not wear any armor. You gain all the following bonuses (from the Book of Exalted Deeds):
AC Bonus (Su)
A 1st-level ascetic receives a +4 exalted bonus to his Armor Class. The bonus increases to +5 at 3rd level, and thereafter increases by +1 for each 3 character levels. This bonus does not apply to touch attacks and does not hinder incorporeal touch attacks. Brilliant energy weapons, however, do not ignore this bonus. This does not stack with an armor bonus.
Bonus Feats
At 1st level, an ascetic gets a bonus feat, and another bonus feat at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter. Unlike the other benefits of a vow of poverty, a character does not gain these bonus feats retroactively when he takes the Vow of Poverty feat; he only gains those bonus feats that apply for the levels he gains after swearing his vow. The bonus feats must be channeling or faith feats.
A 3rd-level ascetic is immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. He can exist comfortably in conditions between –50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves (as described in the Dungeon Master’s Guide).
Exalted Strike (Su)
At 4th level, an ascetic gains a +1 enhancement bonus on all his attack and damage rolls. In effect, any weapon the character wields becomes a +1 magic weapon, and can overcome the damage reduction of a creature as though it were a magic weapon. This enhancement bonus rises to +2 at 10th level, to +3 at 14th level, to +4 at 17th level, and to +5 at 20th level. At 10th level, any weapon damage the character deals is also considered to be good-aligned, so that it can bypass the damage reduction of some evil outsiders.
Sustenance (Ex)
A 5th-level ascetic doesn’t need to eat or drink.
Deflection (Su)
A 6th-level ascetic receives a +1 deflection bonus to his Armor Class. This bonus increases to +2 at 12th level, and to +3 at 18th level.
Resistance (Ex)
At 7th level, an ascetic gains a +1 resistance bonus on all saving throws. This bonus increases to +2 at 13th level, and to +3 at 17th level.
Ability Score Enhancement (Ex)
At 7th level, an ascetic gains a +2 enhancement bonus to one ability score. At 11th level, he gains an extra +2 bonus to that score, and a +2 bonus to another ability score. At 15th level, he gains an extra +2 bonus to those two scores, and a +2 bonus to a third ability score. At 19th level, he gains an extra +2 bonus to those three scores, and a +2 bonus to a fourth ability score.
Natural Armor (Ex)
At 8th level, an ascetic gains a +1 natural armor bonus, or his existing natural armor bonus increases by +1. It increases an extra +1 at 16th level.
Mind Shielding (Ex)
Also at 8th level, an ascetic character becomes immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to discern his alignment.
Damage Reduction (Su)
An ascetic gains damage reduction 5/magic at 10th level. At 15th level, this improves to 5/evil, and at 19th level to 10/evil.
Greater Sustenance (Ex)
Once he attains 12th level, an ascetic character doesn’t need to breathe.
Energy Resistance (Ex)
At 13th level, an ascetic gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy. At 20th level, this increases to resistance 15.
Freedom of Movement (Ex)
At 14th level, an ascetic can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell.
Regeneration (Ex)
At 17th level, an ascetic heals 1 point of damage per level every hour rather than every day. (This ability cannot be aided by the Heal skill.) Nonlethal damage heals at a rate of 1 point of damage per level every 5 minutes.
True Seeing (Su)
At 18th level, an ascetic gains a continusous true seeing ability, as the spell.
These bonuses are calculated on your character level, not your divine caster level. Differently from other vows, you do not gain the Moderate and Severe bonuses too when you select the Extreme Vow of Poverty.
Chastity, Obedience and Poverty are the standard vows most often taken by priests and friars.
While granting the bardic music isn't much of a problem, since it is limited, I think the archetype get a lot more than it loses.
An extra domain is quite a lot. I can't really see the reason for granting that additional one.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon: I think getting this at level 1 is a bit too much. We got both the monk and oracles with tongues curse who get the effect, but not until level 17 or 15. My fear is that it just removes the element of different languages from the game entirely.
As far as I can see, they only lose some weapon proficiencies (and perhaps light armor?) from the Priest.
The vows are a difficult matter, and my initial feeling is that some of these get a little too powerful. For many character concepts, they won't be much of a drawback, and the benefits are really good.
The Priest already has three domains. All I've done is letting choose among a list of favorites (all non-combat domains) instead of giving Knowledge as mandatory. And the Friar CAN'T choose some war-themed domains that the Priest has instead access to.
Bardic music substitutes the priest's bardic knowledge, so the change seems more or less equal since the friar gets just a few performances.
Tongue of the sun and moon was given at a much higher level originally, but I put it on the first level because Cheapy (if I remember well) noted that it was not a great advantage for a cleric, who can use Tongues at 5th level.
I'm posting these vow ideas because I WANT feedback. For the most part, I've just copied vows taken from UM, the Book of Exalted Deeds or the Book of Hallowed Arcana, adapting them very little. In some cases I made the vow more SEVERE than it was before! But if you think they're unbalanced, I'm here asking for suggestions. I know I'm not such a rule expert after all. Thanks.^^
Vow of Suffering:
Moderate- Penance: You wear a cilice, aka a knotted or spiked cord, under your upper clothes, causing a moderate pain. All the damage you suffer while wearing the cilice can't heal through natural means but only by magic. You automatically stabilize and cease bleeding when near death. You can cast Stabilize as a spell-like ability a number of times for day equal to your divine caster's level.
Severe- Flagellant: You ritually wound yourself every day with a whip or a scourge. The damage you cause to yourself can't be healed until the next day, and the wounds stay open and bleeding. You can lay on hands on others to heal the same damage you suffered.
Extreme- Stigmata:You can heal the wounds and ailments of others using your own life energy. When you activate this ability, as a free action, you immediately take at least 2 points of temporary Constitution damage. You can take as many points of Constitution damage as you wish, as long as you remain alive and conscious.
Once you have activated your stigmata, you can touch your allies to heal them of 1 point of damage per level they possess for every 2 points of Constitution damage you take. In addition, any character you touch who is suffering from a disease can immediately make a new saving throw against that disease with a sacred bonus equal to the number of points of Constitution damage you took. If the character succeeds on that saving throw, she is freed from the disease.
You can use this touch on one ally per point of Constitution damage you take. As with delivering a touch spell, you can touch up to six allies as a full-round action. A single person can only benefit once from each activation of your stigmata, but each activation lasts for 1 hour.
For example, if you sacrifice 4 points of Constitution, you can grant four allies a number of hit points of healing equal to twice their level. Each ally who was suffering from a disease would make a new saving throw with a +4 sacred bonus. If only two of your allies were wounded at the time you activated the stigmata, you could “save” the other two uses for up to 1 hour, in case other characters become wounded within that time. Even if the characters you originally healed were injured again, however, they could not benefit from the same activation of your stigmata.
When you use this ability, the wounds on your body bleed in proportion to the Constitution damage you take. The bleeding persists for 1 hour, and the Constitution damage cannot be restored by any means until the bleeding has stopped. Once the bleeding has stopped, you can freely activate the stigmata again, whether or not you have recovered your lost Constitution, as long as you have enough Constitution left to use the ability and survive.
I'm posting these vow ideas because I WANT feedback. For the most part, I've just copied vows taken from UM, the Book of Exalted Deeds or the Book of Hallowed Arcana, adapting them very little. In some cases I made the vow more SEVERE than it was before! But if you think they're unbalanced, I'm here asking for suggestions. I know I'm not such a rule expert after all. Thanks.^^
My apologies, if my remarks was a bit short.
I didn't give more detailed feedback on the vows, due to lack of want, but because I don't really know how to do it :-)
The concept of vows are mechanically are very difficult question, as you balance between having choices that might are just a mechanical bonus (and I sadly know a few players who wouldn't take them, even though it was integral to their characters) and ending up with vows that grant so little that they doesn't matter (as the monk vows does).
I will try giving some specific suggestions anyway:
Vow of Poverty:
As the topics on the monk version has shown, it is a major point of debate, how this should be done.
Personally I am not a fan of the book of exalted deeds solution, granting mechanical bonusses in such a way to balance the lack of magic items. While it might be necessary to do something like that to make the concept viable, I fear that the result is, in the name of flavor (being sworn to poverty), every ascetic character ends up having some what the same build, expending versatility.
I like the lesser versions better. Although I think the skills bonusses are to high (or rather too many) for the moderate version.
Vow of Suffering:
This is most promising. I like the fact that the use of the extreme version is so costly. For this power, I do think you can increase the effects, however. Being a divine caster with channeling capabilities, the friar (and most of the other divine classes) will have better options for healing people, without having the drawback of loosing Con.
For the moderate version, I would suggest changing it into a +4 bonus to stabilize rolls instead, so it won't step into the territory of pinnacle abilities (the auto-stabilize).
The severe version is quite good. I think that some minimum of damage per day, should be added, but otherwise it could work as written (Providing no more of a benefit than it looses).
Vow of Chastity:
I am not a fan of the moderate version, as it provides a rather substantial bonus with minimal drawback. This is one of the cases I fear that some players will take it just to gain the bonus against charm spells if the are thinking in terms of effectivity.
I would lower the bonus significantly. I am thinking either a +1 bonus to those saves; a +2 bonus to those saves against characters of the opposite sex; or a combination of a +1 bonus, which raises to a +2 or +4 bonus against the charm effects of a Succubus.
The severe version is rather good as is. The benefits are definately offset by the social and practical imhibitions it provide to the character.
I like that the extreme version, isn't really player character compatible. As such, I don't have a problem with it granting a rather significant benefit.
Thank you very much for the feedback!^^ Wow, I see that you universally like more my handmade versions than those copied/pasted from the BED or the BHM... :DDD
For the Vow of Poverty: I'm not too much certain of the extreme version too. The rules in BED seem almost an archetype of their own more than a vow eligible from any character. This needs much thinking, and it would be good if someone did it with me.
The Moderate form is almost copied/pasted from BHM- I just added some detail. Re-reading it, you're right on the bonuses being too many. I'd leave only Diplomacy and Sense Motive, maybe, what do you think?
For the Vow of Suffering: The severe version is all mine, so thanks!^^ I accept your correction on the moderate version (also all mine). I think that you mean increase the effects of the extreme version (copied/pasted from BED)? What would you suggest?
Vow of Chastity: the moderate form is from BED. I think your version's nice. The severe form is from the monk vow in UM. And I gave all those benefits to the extreme form just because NO PC could take it!^^ But it had to be done for sake of completeness, as in Catholic countries like mine there are still secluded nuns up to these days (they're few and old for the most part, but someone still chooses to take a vow like this... incredible). And a secluded NPC (a villain master or a sage) could be a great addition to the game.
You said nothing about the Vow of Obedience. I'd like to know your opinion.
Tomorrow, Vow of Silence!^^
You are most welcome:)
Moderate Poverty: Only granting diplomacy and sense motive is better, but I am not entirely sure it is the right way to go. I don't really see those skill bonusses as something tied to being poor. I haven't got a better alternative at this point, though. I am a bit concerned that he diplomacy bonus, as well as then one gained from the compassion subdomain will cause the friar to get higher diplomacy checks than the bard archetypes (geisha, court bard, celebrity), which are top specialized in exactly that area.
Extreme Vow of Suffering: Yes, I think that it needs to be stronger, or something different than healing. As written I don't think it would get much use. A possible alternative would be to let the friar regain 1 use of channel energy per 1 point of Con damage, he takes. This would limit the usefulness to channeling classes (although it could be 2 lay on hands for a paladin).
I am not sure if it is strong enough to warrant the cost, but this way it gets some additional uses.
Vow of Obediance: I think it is quite fine, as neither the benefits or drawbacks are very significant. I am not sure, how extreme it has to be to fulfill the severe version. Laying on hands as a full paladin could be quite a bonus, and to balance it, it would require the GM to make the Vow count in the game.
At some point, I don't think this Vow equals the others. For any member of the clergy, I would expect some level of obediance to be expected. Somehow I think this is more to do with the characters relation to their organization, rather than a personal Vow.
Overall you need to think about, what the drawbacks of breaking the vows are? You wrote a penalty equaling half the bonus of the Vow, but in most cases this can't be applied.
A nice addition might be, to have certain drawbacks tied to certain vows, so they will follow the specific effects. A more generel approach could be to remove the domain powers/spells until the character has atoned (but this is a problem concerning other classes than friars and clerics).
Poverty: I could state just a fixed bonus on Diplomacy instead of a level-depending bonus (+4 on both skills, for example), but I sort of like the Friar to be a "specialist" in diplomacy like and better than a Bard... he's the divine diplomat for excellency, after all.^^
Extreme Vow of Suffering: Good idea, deserves some hard thinking.
Obedience: Hmmm, it's true that "obeying the superiors" is an implicit request for a clergymember, so I wasn't sure if this SHOULD be a Vow at all. I liked the idea of a friar taking the three standard historical vows, though. Maybe I could reduce the bonuses and make it a "prerequisite" for other vows, a sort of "protovow".
Breaking a Vow: I didn't think or write the rules yet. The rule you talk of was for asking and obtaining a Dispensation from your vow by the superiors. Breaking a vow should obviously have direr consequences. I have to think yet what they could be. Your suggestions could be a good starting base.
Vow of Silence
This vow has not a Moderate form.
Severe- Quiet: You pledge not to speak at certain times of the day- from sunset to sunrise, for example, or in certain sacred hours. While you're keeping silence, you gain a +2 insight bonus on all Wisdom- and Intelligence- based skills.
Extreme- Mute: You can never speak a word, except for praying. You can apply the Silent Spell metamagic feat to all your spell without increasing them in level.
Vow of Nonviolence:
Moderate- Parley: You pledge not to use immotivate violence on anybody. You can never strike the first blow in combat. If attacked, you must use the fight defensively action or the total defense action for the first 2 rounds. You must always give his opponent the option to surrender, and cannot purposely slay another creature that could reasonably be influenced to flee or join a civilized society as a productive member (obviously this excludes many monsters). You gain a +4 bonus on defense maneuvers and don't suffer penalties on attempting to inflict nonlethal damage with a weapon.
Severe- Peacemaker: You can't kill any sentient creature. You can inflict only nonlethal damage to any opponent, or if you inflict lethal damage must cure your opponent after the battle, before curing yourself or your allies. You may use only one simple weapon (usually a quarterstaff), but this weapon is considered to have the Merciful special property when it's in your hands. You add the Admonishing Ray, Baleful Polymorph and Pup Shape spells to your spell list.
Extreme- Harmless: You never can use weapons or physically attack any sentient creature, even to save your own or an ally's life. All the spells you cast are considered Merciful Spells (as for the feat). The saving throw DC for any undamaging spell you cast is increased by +4. This bonus does not stack with the bonus granted by the Spell Focus feat. It affects only saving throw DCs, not caster level checks or other elements of a spell.
Your purity is so great that any ally of yours who slays a helpless or defenseless foe within 120 feet of you feels great remorse. Your ally takes a -1 morale penalty on his attack rolls for 1 hour per your character level. For each helpless foe slain, the attack penalty increases by 1, to a maximum equal to your character level. The duration of the increased penalty starts from the latest slaying.
You my ask your allies to give you and oath that a helpless foe will not be slain. If the oath is sworn, an ally who later breaks the oath takes the penalty for doing so as if you were present. If you leave a helpless foe to be killed by your allies, you have broken your vow. You may ask a defeated creature to give you an oath of surrender or noninterference in exchange for its life. If the creature breaks this oath to you, you can allow your allies to deal with the creature as they see fit without breaking their oaths or your vow of nonviolence.
Vow of Abstinence
Moderate- Fast Days: You pledge not to make use of intoxicating substances or eating meat in certain sacred days (at least 2 days a week if the vote has to take any effect at all). You gain a +2 sacred bonus on ST against poison and disease during your fasting days.
Severe- Penance: You can never eat anything but rice (or a similar bland, staple food) and drink anything but water. On certain days (usually once per month or on a religious holiday), you may eat a small portion of other simple, bland food to maintain proper nutrition. You cannot use tobacco, drugs, potions, alchemical items requiring eating or drinking, or any other thing that could be considered a food or beverage. You gain a +4 sacred bonus an ST against poison, disease and death, and can resist the effects of starvation and thirst double than a normal person.
Extreme- Starvation: You don't eat or drink anything for as much as you can without dying. Some abscetic characters have gone so far as fasting till death, as a form of rebellion or penance, but most agree to eat a little bit some time just to substain themselves- only to resume their fasting soon after. For every 6 points of nonlethal damage that you suffer due to starvation and thirst, you gain 1 Wisdom or Charisma point, with all the consequent bonuses. These points disappear when the fasting ends, and can never become permanent. Lethal damage due to starvation doesn't grant bonus characteristics points.
Vow of Traveling
Moderate- Order of Replacement:You have not a home of your own. You stay in a monastery or private house belonging to your order, which can issue an order of replacement from time to time. After a fixed time, or at a whim of a superior, you must take your baggage and depart towards a new assigned place. When dealing with people or creatures you meet for the first time, you have a +4 bonus on your first Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate or Sense Motive check.
Severe- Nomad:You are a perpetually traveling priest. You can never stay in a single place more than a few days. You add a bonus equal to half your character level to your movement rate.
Extreme- Homeless:You are not only a nomad priest, but can never sleep in a house. You must ask permission to sleep in a stable, or stay in a cave or under a tree for the night. You gain resistance to heat and cold equal to your character level.
Vow of Peace
This vow has not a Moderate form. Usually is taken from priests, friars and oracles, who benefit the most of it.
Severe- Helpless: You renounce to use an armor. You may use protective items which are not armor pieces, as bracers and mantles. You gain an armor bonus like a monk's.
Extreme- Harmony:You must not cause harm to any living creature (constructs and undead are not included in this prohibition). You may not deal real damage, or ability damage to such creatures through spells or weapons, though you may deal nonlethal damage. You may not target them with death effects, disintegrate, or other spells that have the immediate potential to cause death or great harm. You also may not use nondamaging spells to incapacitate or weaken living foes so that your allies can kill them -- if you incapacitate a foe, you must take him prisoner. (Characters who have taken a Vow of Peace are know to drink water through a strainer in order to avoid accidentally swallowing, and thereby causing harm to, a small insect.) You can't hunt for living, and must follow a vegetarian diet. You gain the following bonuses (from BED):
First you are constantly surrounded by a calming aura to a radius of 20 feet. Creatures within the aura must make a successful Will save (DC 10 + one-half your character level + your Cha modifier) or be affected as by the calm emotions spell. Creatures who leave the aura and reenter it receive new saving throws. A creature that makes a successful saving throw and remains in the aura is unaffected until it leaves the aura and reenters. The aura is mind-affecting, supernatural compulsion.
Second, you gain a +2 natural armor bonus to you AC, a +2 deflection bonus to your AC, and a +2 exalted bonus to your AC. This exalted bonus does not apply to touch attacks and does not hinder incorporeal touch attacks. Brilliant energy weapons, however, do not ignore it. It does not stack with an armor bonus. If you also have the Vow of Poverty feat, the natural armor, deflection, and exalted Armor Class bonuses granted by that feat all increase by +2. If a creature strikes you with a manufactured weapon, the weapon must immediately make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + one-half your character level + you Con modifier) or shatter against your skin, leaving you unharmed.
Finally you gain a +4 sacred bonus on all Diplomacy checks.
Breaking a Vow
Who intentionally breaks a vow is considered to have violated her code of conduct, and loses all spells and class features, except for armor, shield and weapons proficiences. She cannot thereafter gain levels in her class until she atones for her deeds (see the atonement spell description).
Who unintentionally breaks a vow (cheated or under compulsion), may lose her domain powers, her channel energy power or her high-level spells (at GM's option) until she atones. Non-divine spellcasters may lose their high-level class abilities.
The friar archetype and vow system work very well with the Variant Channeling rules from UM, the Domain Channeling option from Rite Publishing's The Secrets of Divine Channeling (improved for subdomains in Pathways issues) and JcServant's homebrew Enhanced Channeling feats.
Whew. I know that some vows still need much hard work (expecially the Extreme forms), but this is a beginning. Any help would be appreciated. I'll start rethinking and reworking them in the next days.
But before, I'd like to introduce to you the oracular version of the Friar- the Oracle of Peace. Then I'd like to create a pacifist druid archetype too, and put these three together with the vow system and your own good ideas in a Book of Peaceful Priests, along with my conversion of the BED's Apostle of Peace prestige class- which would be the natural choice for a pacifist priest, cleric, druid or oracle. See you tomorrow^^
Here's my Oracle of Peace. When I'm finished with the new peace-thematic characters I have in mind, I'll return to the vow system.
Ok, so let's begin with the reviewed vows, taking in Haraldklak's suggestions... and yours, if you want to participate!
Vow of Obedience
This vow has only the Moderate degree, and so can be taken by anyone. It's a prerequisite for other vows: you can't take any other vow if you don't take the Vow of Obedience first.
Any member of a church, be it a lay worshiper or a priest, pays some obedience to superiors. A character who takes this vow takes it a little further, pledging never to disobey an order of the superiors, even if this means loss of advantages for him or the party, renouncing to a precious item, separating from friends/lovers etc. Most good and neutral faiths won't ask their clergy members to obey self-destructive or unreasonable orders. If a superior issues such an order, or an order beyond his power to ask or against the tenets of the faith, disobeying may not mean breaking the vow. In fact, a virtuous priest may be REQUESTED to disobey in such cases (GM's discretion).
As long as you keep your vow, you gain a +2 bonus on Diplomacy checks with the members of your clergy.
Vow of Suffering:
Moderate- Penance: You wear a cilice, aka a knotted or spiked cord, under your upper clothes, causing a moderate pain. All the damage you suffer while wearing the cilice can't heal through natural means but only by magic. You gain a +4 bonus on stabilize checks, and can cast Stabilize as a spell-like ability a number of times for day equal to your divine caster's level.
Severe- Flagellant: You ritually wound yourself every day with a whip or a scourge, for at least 1d4 points of damage. The damage you cause to yourself can't be healed until the next day, and the wounds stay open and bleeding. You can lay on hands on others to heal the same damage you suffered.
Extreme- Stigmata:You can heal the wounds and ailments of others using your own life energy. When you activate this ability, as a free action, you immediately take at least 1 point of temporary Constitution damage. You can take as many points of Constitution damage as you wish, as long as you remain alive and conscious.
Once you have activated your stigmata, you can lay on hands like a paladin of your character level once for every point of Constitution damage you take. In addition, you can choose mercies to add to this power just like a paladin of your character level. You choose the mercies the first time you activate your stigmata and can't change them later.
When you use this ability, the wounds on your body bleed in proportion to the Constitution damage you take. The bleeding persists for 1 hour, and the Constitution damage cannot be restored by any means until the bleeding has stopped. Once the bleeding has stopped, you can freely activate the stigmata again, whether or not you have recovered your lost Constitution, as long as you have enough Constitution left to use the ability and survive.
I took in HaraldKlak's suggestion... let me know if it's powerful enough this way! I'll need some help for the Peace and Nonviolence Vows too... I was thinking of fusing them in one, but don't know how.
Vow of Obedience Errata:
Vow of Obedience (Feat)
Requisite:1st-level divine caster (or other member of a clergy, if admitted)[/i]
The Vow of Obedience is a prerequisite for other priestly vows. If a character doesn't have this feat, she can take only the Moderate form of other vows.
Any member of a church, be it a lay worshiper or a priest, pays some obedience to superiors. A character who takes this vow takes it a little further, pledging never to disobey an order of the superiors, even if this means loss of advantages for him or the party, renouncing to a precious item, separating from friends/lovers etc. Most good and neutral faiths won't ask their clergy members to obey self-destructive or unreasonable orders. If a superior issues such an order, or an order beyond his power to ask or against the tenets of the faith, disobeying may not mean breaking the vow. In fact, a virtuous priest may be REQUESTED to disobey in such cases (GM's discretion).
As long as you keep your vow, you gain a +2 bonus on Diplomacy checks with the members of your clergy.
Vow of Chastity
Moderate- Virginity:You pledge not to indulge in any kind of sexual and romantic activity. You gain a +1 sacred bonus on saves against charm effects, which increases to +2 if the caster is a member of the opposite sex.
Severe- Purity: In addition to abstaining from all sexual and intimate physical activity, you can't stay near a person of the opposite sex (less than 10 feet of distance), nor allow a person of the opposite sex touch you, even to heal your wounds. Striking enemies in battle or being struck by enemies is not prohibited, but you must purify your body immediately after the fight. You may add an enchantment/charm spell from any list to your list of spells for every 5 levels in a class of divine caster you possess. This spell must be of a level you may cast.
Extreme- Seclusion: You may not go out of your monastery (or leave your hermitage) nor talk to, touch or see directly anyone who's not a member of your order and of the same sex. As long as you stay in your monastery, all your divination spells and channeling powers are maximized without level penalties.
Vow of Nonviolence:
Moderate- Parley: You pledge not to use immotivate violence on anybody. You can never strike the first blow in combat. If attacked, you must use the fight defensively action or the total defense action for the first 2 rounds. You must always give his opponent the option to surrender, and cannot purposely slay another creature that could reasonably be influenced to flee or join a civilized society as a productive member (obviously this excludes many monsters). You gain a +4 bonus on defense maneuvers and don't suffer penalties on attempting to inflict nonlethal damage with a weapon.
Severe- Peacemaker: You can't kill any sentient creature. You can inflict only nonlethal damage to any opponent, or if you inflict lethal damage must cure your opponent after the battle, before curing yourself or your allies. You may use only one simple weapon (usually a quarterstaff), but this weapon is considered to have the Merciful special property when it's in your hands. You can't wear any armor, but receive a wisdom-based AC bonus like a monk.
Extreme- Harmless: You can never use weapons or cause damage to any living creature, even to save your own or an ally's life. All the spells you cast are considered Merciful Spells (as for the feat). The saving throw DC for any undamaging spell you cast is increased by +4. This bonus does not stack with the bonus granted by the Spell Focus feat. It affects only saving throw DCs, not caster level checks or other elements of a spell. You can't hunt for living, though you may accept to eat meat of an animal killed by others.
Your purity is so great that any ally of yours who slays a helpless or defenseless foe within 120 feet of you feels great remorse. Your ally takes a -1 morale penalty on his attack rolls for 1 hour per your character level. For each helpless foe slain, the attack penalty increases by 1, to a maximum equal to your character level. The duration of the increased penalty starts from the latest slaying.
You my ask your allies to give you and oath that a helpless foe will not be slain. If the oath is sworn, an ally who later breaks the oath takes the penalty for doing so as if you were present. If you leave a helpless foe to be killed by your allies, you have broken your vow. You may ask a defeated creature to give you an oath of surrender or noninterference in exchange for its life. If the creature breaks this oath to you, you can allow your allies to deal with the creature as they see fit without breaking their oaths or your vow of nonviolence.
Comment: I fused some parts of the Vow of Peace with the Vow of Nonviolence. The "discarded parts" will become special abilities of my converted Apostle of Peace. I'm considering doing the same thing with the Vow of Poverty, which's always been the most controversial vow.
P.S. In the Severe form, the AC bonus should be intended to be Wisdom- or Charisma- based, depending on the divine caster's relevant ability.
Ummm... actually, meh. I'll re-do Nonviolence as it was and leave to Poverty the armor restrictions.
Vow of Nonviolence:
Moderate- Parley: You pledge not to use immotivate violence on anybody. You can never strike the first blow in combat. If attacked, you must use the fight defensively action or the total defense action for the first 2 rounds. You must always give his opponent the option to surrender, and cannot purposely slay another creature that could reasonably be influenced to flee or join a civilized society as a productive member (obviously this excludes many monsters). You gain a +4 bonus on defense maneuvers and don't suffer penalties on attempting to inflict nonlethal damage with a weapon.
Severe- Peacemaker: You can't kill any sentient creature. You can inflict only nonlethal damage to any opponent, or if you inflict lethal damage must cure your opponent after the battle, before curing yourself or your allies. You may use only one simple weapon (usually a quarterstaff), but this weapon is considered to have the Merciful special property when it's in your hands. You add the Admonishing Ray, Baleful Polymorph and Pup Shape spells to your spell list.
Extreme- Mahatma: You can never use weapons or cause damage to any living creature, even to save your own or an ally's life. All the spells you cast are considered Merciful Spells (as for the feat). The saving throw DC for any undamaging spell you cast is increased by +4. This bonus does not stack with the bonus granted by the Spell Focus feat. It affects only saving throw DCs, not caster level checks or other elements of a spell. You can't hunt for living, though you may accept to eat meat of an animal killed by others.
Your purity is so great that any ally of yours who slays a helpless or defenseless foe within 120 feet of you feels great remorse. Your ally takes a -1 morale penalty on his attack rolls for 1 hour per your character level. For each helpless foe slain, the attack penalty increases by 1, to a maximum equal to your character level. The duration of the increased penalty starts from the latest slaying.
You my ask your allies to give you and oath that a helpless foe will not be slain. If the oath is sworn, an ally who later breaks the oath takes the penalty for doing so as if you were present. If you leave a helpless foe to be killed by your allies, you have broken your vow. You may ask a defeated creature to give you an oath of surrender or noninterference in exchange for its life. If the creature breaks this oath to you, you can allow your allies to deal with the creature as they see fit without breaking their oaths or your vow of nonviolence.
Vow of Poverty
This vow is taken most often by priests, friars and divine channelers, as a form of protest against a material-bound society and a sign of solidariety with poor and destitute people.
Moderate- Sobriety: You pledge not to own very much property. You cannot keep more than 50 gp per level with you at any given time in coin and nonmagical gear and items. You cannot wear jewelry (except holy items, symbols of status and/or wedding rings), and you cannot own more than one magic item for every two levels, not counting potions and scrolls (although you can have only one of those items per level as well). Only one of this items can be a weapon. Magic and precious items are considered a loan from your order, which may ask them back anytime. You can't wear any armor, but gain a CA bonus like a monk's, based on your relevant characteristic (Wisdom or Charisma). You must monthly tithe part of your gained treasure (usually 10%) too your order or to the poor. For as long as you keep your vow, you gain an insight bonus equal to half your level (maximum +10) to all Diplomacy, and Gather Information checks.
Severe- Beggary: You may never own more than six possessions—a simple set of clothing, a pair of sandals or shoes, a bowl, a sack, a blanket, and any one other item (usally a simple weapon). Five of these items must be of plain and simple make, though one can be of some value (often an heirloom of great personal significance). You must beg for your money, and you can't carry other money with you. You can never keep more money or wealth on your person than you need to feed, bathe, and shelter yourself for 1 week in modest accommodations. You cannot borrow or carry wealth or items worth more than 50 gp that belong to others. You are allowed to accept and use curative potions (or similar magical items where the item is consumed and is valueless thereafter) from other creatures. You can add a conjuration/creation spell from any list to your list of spells for every 2 levels in a class of divine caster you possess. This spell must be of a level you may cast.
Extreme- Mendicity: You can't carry any money with you and must beg for your food and clothes. You can't eat food or wear clothes you have not begged for or aren't a charitable loan from your order. You must sleep on the nude earth or on the floor, without blankets or pillows- you're allowed to sleep on straw if you find some. You must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a spell component pouch. You may not use any magic item of any sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your behalf--you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebony fly. You may not, however, "borrow" a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion for even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a scroll, wand, or staff. You gain an ability boost +2 on a characteristic of your choice for every 4 character level you possess, and DR 5/magic for every 5 character level you possess.
Comment: Again, the Extreme vow's not intended for PCs. I reduced the bonuses drastically, and the penalties are too great to roleplay it well with ease. the Moderate form is much more viable and the Severe form is realistically friar-like for me. The Extreme form is inspired to hermits and Eastern gymnosophists... I'm thinking of converting the actual ascetic character from BED in a priestly archetype.
Abstinence and Traveling don't need a rewording for me. So that should be all.^^ As always, I'd appreciate comments^^
Here's an additional power for the Peace Domain.
You presence calms violent and barbaric instincts, and your touch brings harmony and negates conflicts. As long as you don’t wear any armor, you receive an armor bonus on your AC equal to your Wisdom modifier.